karaddin Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 While I certainly agree with your assessment of Naomi, and firmly believe that she is the glue that holds the Roci together, I have to part ways with your underestimation of Holden. Holden is charismatic enough to lead this oddball group and the rest of the crew are fiercely loyal to him. He routinely risks himself for the good of others, and he is a confident decision maker. Even when some of his decisions turn out to be wrong, he always adjusts quickly. There have been a few negative discussions about Holden recently, and I just do not understand it. I personally find him to be one of the best star ship captains in the history of the genre. I didn't say Holden is a bad captain though. One of the criticisms I've seen levelled against The Expanse is that the crew of the Roci is unreasonable skilled for people that were on a shit hauler like the Cant. I think they have done a good job of explaining why three people as skilled as Naomi, Alex and Amos would be on the Cant, I don't think Holden was blatantly skilled however. What he has done is risen to the occasion once he was on the Roci, but prior to that he clearly hadn't stood out in any particular way prior to or after his dishonourable discharge, and charisma/leadership is something that can fall into place when the circumstances are right - it's not like technical skills which is what the other 3 all have in excess. That's all I meant. Fucking up and getting the DD from Earth Navy and ending up on the Canterbury doesn't need any further explanation for him, the others needed a damn good reason why they'd be there. As for dislike of him, he's got a certain personality time that is going to appeal to some and irritate others. He's very earnest in his star eyed idealism early in the books and I think we are seeing that get ground down by events. I think he's a great character though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 14, 2015 Share Posted July 14, 2015 Thanks for editing my post where I quoted a spoiler, Kat. I was away over the weekend.Catching up on the thread we are generally really bad at throwing spoilers everywhere. Which is almost to be expected given we're 15 pages into discussing a show that hasn't aired. Come launch date I think it's probably a good idea to have a book spoiler discussion that's separate from the main show (Walking Dead style). D'onoforio as Amos would have fit my mental image quite well. Him or the actor who played Opie in Sons of Anarchy (ryan Hurst). The whole big but child-like angle.Chad Coleman will be great as Col Johnson but I did initially have an older person in mind (although the show seems to generally have knocked a few years of the cast - even Avasarala is younger, although people may age better in the future) such as Andre Braugher (who may not even be older than Chad Coleman) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 Thanks for editing my post where I quoted a spoiler, Kat. I was away over the weekend. Catching up on the thread we are generally really bad at throwing spoilers everywhere. Which is almost to be expected given we're 15 pages into discussing a show that hasn't aired. Come launch date I think it's probably a good idea to have a book spoiler discussion that's separate from the main show (Walking Dead style). D'onoforio as Amos would have fit my mental image quite well. Him or the actor who played Opie in Sons of Anarchy (ryan Hurst). The whole big but child-like angle. Chad Coleman will be great as Col Johnson but I did initially have an older person in mind (although the show seems to generally have knocked a few years of the cast - even Avasarala is younger, although people may age better in the future) such as Andre Braugher (who may not even be older than Chad Coleman) That is a fantastic idea... I fully support having a book spoiler free thread and since I have read the books, I will not post in it. I wish people would do the same for The Walking Dead... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The actress playing Avasarala is actually 63, but she doesn't look it. We don't have an exact age for her, but I thought 63 is ballpark for what she is in the books, maybe a bit older but 70 tops. I agree with the book spoiler/book spoiler free threads when it comes out, only way to stop people screwing up imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 The typical SF answer is that everyone will live longer in the future and stay healthier for longer (well, we can see that happening right now), so someone who looks 50 now might pass for 70 in the future and so on. Seems reasonable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 That is a fantastic idea... I fully support having a book spoiler free thread and since I have read the books, I will not post in it. I wish people would do the same for The Walking Dead... Like red snow said, there is a comic spoiler for TWD, and one just for the show. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted July 16, 2015 Share Posted July 16, 2015 That is a fantastic idea... I fully support having a book spoiler free thread and since I have read the books, I will not post in it. I wish people would do the same for The Walking Dead... I think people have finally caught on with the Walking Dead (I wouldn't know as I stick to the comic spoiler thread). I guess every season there's someone doesn't grasp it but as long as other readers are good at modding it's as good as we can hope. We should give it a go - if it turns out there's only the readers watching then it's of no harm anyhow. The actress playing Avasarala is actually 63, but she doesn't look it. We don't have an exact age for her, but I thought 63 is ballpark for what she is in the books, maybe a bit older but 70 tops. I agree with the book spoiler/book spoiler free threads when it comes out, only way to stop people screwing up imo. I thought she was in her 80s. While the "people live longer" was my plausible get-out a lot of the desriptions nade her sound physically old too. I'm not that age yet though so can't quantify. The wiki page has her down in her 70s which is cool. I'm trying to remember what I've seen the actress (must be 24 and X-men) in but I recall her as being good. She definitely looks younger than her actual age! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 SyFy provides a virtual reality tour of the Canterbury.I shouldn't... but I'm allowing myself to hope beyond hope that this show will be worth watching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 SyFy provides a virtual reality tour of the Canterbury. I shouldn't... but I'm allowing myself to hope beyond hope that this show will be worth watching. So far, we have in favor of this series being good is 1. It is based on source material that is exceptional 2. The writing team doing the show is the creators of the exceptional work coupled with people that have written some of the best science fiction pictures of the millennium. 3. Incredible acting talent 4. The largest budget ever given for a show on the network 5. Incredibly impressive effects work, art design, and set. The only thing I have heard in the least bit negative about this project is that it is on a channel that used to not be very good when it was run by other people. I would be shocked if this show wasn't as amazing as I believe it is going to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rhom Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 So far, we have in favor of this series being good is 1. It is based on source material that is exceptional 2. The writing team doing the show is the creators of the exceptional work coupled with people that have written some of the best science fiction pictures of the millennium. 3. Incredible acting talent 4. The largest budget ever given for a show on the network 5. Incredibly impressive effects work, art design, and set. The only thing I have heard in the least bit negative about this project is that it is on a channel that used to not be very good when it was run by other people. I would be shocked if this show wasn't as amazing as I believe it is going to be.As you say, plenty of reasons to hope... but its still on a channel most famous for the Sharknado trilogy. Past performance. Future predictor. Blah Blah Blah. Everything looks like this should be great... should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
polishgenius Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 As you say, plenty of reasons to hope... but its still on a channel most famous for the Sharknado trilogy. I'd argue that it's a channel most famous for the BSG reboot, but who knows. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 31, 2015 Share Posted July 31, 2015 I'd argue that it's a channel most famous for the BSG reboot, but who knows. That was when it was called the Sci-Fi Channel. SyFy is most famous for cancelling good shows and creating Sharknado. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Wolf Smith Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 That was when it was called the Sci-Fi Channel. SyFy is most famous for cancelling good shows and creating Sharknado. Wish I could argue w/ that, but can't. Could add ( and Sharksaurs vs Giant squid vs gigantic radioactive python) Just read the latest book, Liked it a lot. More my style then last years. Can't wait until the shows starts. Anybody know the Air date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 Wish I could argue w/ that, but can't. Could add ( and Sharksaurs vs Giant squid vs gigantic radioactive python) Just read the latest book, Liked it a lot. More my style then last years. Can't wait until the shows starts. Anybody know the Air date? December of this year... I would imagine it will hold the prime slot either Sunday or Thursday night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I didn't say Holden is a bad captain though. One of the criticisms I've seen levelled against The Expanse is that the crew of the Roci is unreasonable skilled for people that were on a shit hauler like the Cant. I think they have done a good job of explaining why three people as skilled as Naomi, Alex and Amos would be on the Cant, I don't think Holden was blatantly skilled however. What he has done is risen to the occasion once he was on the Roci, but prior to that he clearly hadn't stood out in any particular way prior to or after his dishonourable discharge, and charisma/leadership is something that can fall into place when the circumstances are right - it's not like technical skills which is what the other 3 all have in excess. That's all I meant. Fucking up and getting the DD from Earth Navy and ending up on the Canterbury doesn't need any further explanation for him, the others needed a damn good reason why they'd be there. As for dislike of him, he's got a certain personality time that is going to appeal to some and irritate others. He's very earnest in his star eyed idealism early in the books and I think we are seeing that get ground down by events. I think he's a great character though. It's clearly explained in the books that Holden was drummed out of the UN Navy because of his authority problem not because he wasn't good at his job, the talented but pain in the ass type. Holden showed mad leadership skills from the initial away mission on, so no I've no idea what you're talking about. The incredibly skilled and charismatic officer who's sometimes too headstrong and impulsive has been consistent in his character development and his back story. I'd argue that it's a channel most famous for the BSG reboot, but who knows. I haven't liked anything they've done for like ever. Even shows that other people think are OK just plain suck IMO. I'm not optimistic about this, I'm not going to destroy my enjoyment of the books by watching til I'm sure it doesn't suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 I'd argue that it's a channel most famous for the BSG reboot, but who knows. Sort-of. BSG is well-known in geek circles but to the general audience is completely obscure, its ratings were diabolical. It's definitely better-known to most people as the Sharknado studio or maybe the Stargate channel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted August 1, 2015 Share Posted August 1, 2015 It's clearly explained in the books that Holden was drummed out of the UN Navy because of his authority problem not because he wasn't good at his job, the talented but pain in the ass type. Holden showed mad leadership skills from the initial away mission on, so no I've no idea what you're talking about. The incredibly skilled and charismatic officer who's sometimes too headstrong and impulsive has been consistent in his character development and his back story. Yeah, he punched a superior officer. The period you are talking about is the part where he has stepped up, it's prior to the books on the Cant where he's phoning it in for a shitty pay cheque and fucking whatever pretty young thing that caught his eye. Once again I didn't say he's bad, just that he's not the level of exceptional that the others are. You can disagree, we are allowed to have differences in interpretation, but that doesn't make your interpretation definitive. But by all means, paint him as your all American hero from Montana whose only shortcoming is a righteous problem with authority and tell me I'm just wrong. Given your take on Furiosa your disagreement just makes me feel more right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayyoth Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Yeah, he punched a superior officer. The period you are talking about is the part where he has stepped up, it's prior to the books on the Cant where he's phoning it in for a shitty pay cheque and fucking whatever pretty young thing that caught his eye. Once again I didn't say he's bad, just that he's not the level of exceptional that the others are. You can disagree, we are allowed to have differences in interpretation, but that doesn't make your interpretation definitive. But by all means, paint him as your all American hero from Montana whose only shortcoming is a righteous problem with authority and tell me I'm just wrong. Given your take on Furiosa your disagreement just makes me feel more right. No he didn't punch a superior officer, he tried to punch a superior officer but ended up punching a wall, let's be accurate. Sure it's fine to disagree just I don't know where you're getting 'he grew into his role as he was kinda useless before' idea from? His character is riffing off Kirk and I guess if you don't like Kirk you won't like Holden much. And yeah he didn't do much on the Cant, but neither did the other three. Towing big icebergs around the solar system is the equivalent of hauling lumber through the Northwest, only apparently not as exciting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karaddin Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 Sorry, attempted to punch a superior officer is such a huge difference. And my point is they all are possessing of technical skills which required explaining why they were there. People skills are not the same as technical skills, the dishonorable discharge was all that was needed to explain him being there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mormont Posted August 2, 2015 Share Posted August 2, 2015 'Riffing off Kirk'? Well, they're both guys, and they're both in command of a spaceship... after that, um, I got nothin'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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