Unprofessional Exits: Some Deserve the Blacklist

[drawkcabi]

I do wonder how many employees at the restaurant - servers, line cooks, busboys, waiters, etc. are given "two weeks notice" before being fired. I would imagine not many.

Sounds like someone was just returning the favor.

Thing is, at least when I was in the restaurant business, if someone is fired they immediately are allowed to collect unemployment benefits, if they quit or resign, they can't - at first or for a while or not at all, I'm not completely sure how it works, just that unemployment benefits came quicker to those who were terminated over those who resigned.

Plus we're talking about unprofessionalism here, basically asshats. You are a screw up at work, cost a business money, you steal from them, you cause conflicts, you deserve to be fired. There are definitely asshole employers in this world that fire people for shit reasons, but we're talking about people quitting poorly, leaving their co workers in a bind, putting extra work and stress on others...definitely rant worthy!

One more story from my restaurant days. We had this waitress who thought she was a princess. She had "ideas" to improve everything. Which was fine, but when she wasn't listened to or her ideas were shown not to be feasible, she'd pout. She was hot and enjoyed having the boys/men drool over her and hang on every word she said. But my mom was the one who ran the place and she wouldn't put up with her nonsense all the time, especially when she was ignoring work she was supposed to be doing to spout it.

One day she'd "had enough" of it and when the no one was looking, went into the register and took out the money she felt was "owed" to her for the work she had done to that point, and up and left.

[MercenaryChef]

I do wonder how many employees at the restaurant - servers, line cooks, busboys, waiters, etc. are given "two weeks notice" before being fired. I would imagine not many.

Sounds like someone was just returning the favor.

well that is just stupid.

anytime i have fired someone which at my current job has been once and over my career likely under 20 in 15+ years it has almost always been after going through extensive disciplinary measures, attempting to work with the employee, truly trying to get them on board and in line with expectations.

only twice have i ever just termed someone on the spot without some sort of prior discipline. one was a cook who rather than bring a undercooked steak up to proper temperature on the grill felt he could just put it in the microwave that the pastry team used to heat things. he was fired on the spot. another was a busser i found huffing co2.

disciplining a person properly, working with them, growing them and attempting to retain them is what professionals do.

what this guy did was not professional. to suggest that he was just returning a favor is being deliberately ignorant.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

what this guy did was not professional. to suggest that he was just returning a favor is being deliberately ignorant.

I understand "professionalism" to be a sliding scale based on the standards of your profession. As a whole, I don't expect two weeks notice in the restaurant industry, and most of the people that I know who work in that industry don't expect it either.

This guy reached out to you and sent you a "book" of text messages. You chose to ignore them and assumed you would be able to address them at a later date. Fair enough. You're not obligated to respond on the weekend, and he's an at will employee and he's not obligated to show up for work on Tuesday. You made a tactical error. I suspect this guy, not getting a response after trying to give you as much advance notice as he could, was worried that your failure to respond indicated that an in person confrontation would be more unpleasant than necessary. So he avoided it.

Live and learn - but not just from his mistakes. Yours too.

[ljkeane]

Unless he needs a reference or likes you or his workmates enough to do them a favour by working a notice period why should he care about being professional though?

Unless people have contracts that provide reciprocal protections I don't see why people have any obligation to care about doing a job that they plan to leave anyway.

[MercenaryChef]

I understand "professionalism" to be a sliding scale based on the standards of your profession. As a whole, I don't expect two weeks notice in the restaurant industry, and most of the people that I know who work in that industry don't expect it either.

This guy reached out to you and sent you a "book" of text messages. You chose to ignore them and assumed you would be able to address them at a later date. Fair enough. You're not obligated to respond on the weekend, and he's an at will employee and he's not obligated to show up for work on Tuesday. You made a tactical error. I suspect this guy, not getting a response after trying to give you as much advance notice as he could, was worried that your failure to respond indicated that an in person confrontation would be more unpleasant than necessary. So he avoided it.

Live and learn - but not just from his mistakes. Yours too.

actually two weeks notice is the standard of the restaurant industry. and in cases of management more is often standard. you really do not know what you are talking about, but i appreciate your thoughts regardless.

he was a coward. he took the path of the weak and unprofessional. simple as that. perhaps i should have responded to his text. he even said he intended to finish out the schedule which was written through september and we would talk on tuesday. in the end he just was not interested in being a professional.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

Right.

According to the Bureau of Labor Statistics, 20% of chefs in the restaurant industry and 28% of dishwashers are undocumented. Restaurants often seek them out because they're cheap, hard working and reliable. I'm sure your employer is a wonderful exception and your workplace more closely resembles an anarcho-syndicate collective, but the vast, vast majority of restaurants view their employees as something akin to disposable chattel.

Under those circumstances, I am surprised anyone would think one of their underlings owed them anything. Apparently, this experience hasn't disabused you of you misguided sense of noblesse oblige.

[Greywolf2375]

well that is just stupid.

It might be stupid, but it is reality. The company I work for has released hundreds same day - it's not being fire, but being laid off. 3 people on the team I am on now have been released same day as notice. One was done so that he couldn't see anyone on the team - a meeting was set up for an hour around the time he normally came in so that when he got to his desk it was just him and his boss and he had to be out by the time the hour was up so that he couldn't interact with any of us.

The company my brother was at one upped that - people walking into work that day walked down an aisle of HR and security people. As people walked in they were pulled into one of two rooms - room 1 was you're staying, room 2 was you're going and are escorted to your desk by security and then out.

Fired is a different story - they can happen immediately if it is egregious but otherwise it is a process of documentation,notation, etc. and does take time.

[Inigima]

Unless he needs a reference or likes you or his workmates enough to do them a favour by working a notice period why should he care about being professional though?

Because that's what professionalism means. But also because the food and bev industry within a city is often pretty incestuous and word gets around.

[MercenaryChef]

Nestor, you are right. You win. How could I possibly have any insight or understanding of an industry I have dedicated my life to since I was 16 when you have the internet?

Please send me your phone number so I may text or call so you may more skillfully guide me.

Also I need to email you my new fall menu for your expert approval.

[drawkcabi]

This all management = teh evil is such bullshit. There are so many business struggling out there that treat their employees with respect. Give advances when asked for, feed them, give bonuses. And still there are employees that take advantages, steal from their employer, cause damage to the business.

But all employees are sacrosanct? They can spit on your sandwiches and piss in the soup, and they can feel no obligation to their employer, it's ok because this person who gave you a job when you needed money, trained you, treated you fair, they are management and therefore irredeemable by default. :bs:

[ljkeane]

Because that's what professionalism means.

So what? The vast majority of people work under a significant power imbalance for companies that would have no problem getting rid of them if it would increase their profits. People 'owe' their employers the labour they're paid for nothing more. I care about being professional to the extent that it benefits me personally and helps out my co-workers whose opinion I care about. The idea that there's some sort of moral obligation beyond that to be 'professional' for the profit maximising entity you work for is just strange to me.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

This all management = teh evil is such bullshit. There are so many business struggling out there that treat their employees with respect. Give advances when asked for, feed them, give bonuses. And still there are employees that take advantages, steal from their employer, cause damage to the business.

But all employees are sacrosanct? They can spit on your sandwiches and piss in the soup, and they can feel no obligation to their employer, it's ok because this person who gave you a job when you needed money, trained you, treated you fair, they are management and therefore irredeemable by default. :bs:

Please. Nobody "gives" you a job because you need money. They transact for your services because they believe they will make more money from your labor than they will have to pay you. It's not a favor. It's self-interest.

I'm not taking the position that management is "evil" and employees are "sacrosanct." But I do think the idea that you owe an obligation to go above and beyond your employment obligations for an employer in an industry where 20% or more of the workers are illegal, and specifically sought out because they're cheap, reliable, and have diminished bargaining power because of their questionable status, is fucking ludicrous.

[kairparavel]

Thanks a lot, phone.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

ljkeane,

We aren't (in the resteraunt business) always talking about monolithic evil corporations treating people as disposable cogs. With small resteraunts it's frequently (as with Drawkabi's example) a family run and owned business. They, because of their size, would not have the imbalance of power in favor of managment you keep talking about.

[sologdin]

wasn't there a documentary about this? MC, aren't you really just a rat in a chef hat?

[MercenaryChef]

Solo, shhhh.

Not the 'r' word. It scares the diners.

[kairparavel]

You're, right. People should be able to show up when they want and leave when they want and totally fuck up the inner workings of the environment they leave behind because fuck the man.

And I am sure you will all remember this thread and your thoughts the next time you receive subpar service anywhere you might be: dinner, Best Buy, the mechanic, the dentist etc. Because you know, people can and should leave employers in the lurch and short staffed at any time. Maybe the guy tasked with overseeing your meal just never came in. But that is ok.

Fuck off. A manager quitting by text message (and that is what he was, folks) is unprofessional at any time. It would be for anyone, actually.

[Myrddin]

A manager quitting by text message (and that is what he was, folks) is unprofessional at any time. It would be for anyone, actually.

I bet this guy thinks it's ok to break up with his girl friend by text too.

What goes around comes around. Just imagine how pissed this guy will be when he has employees do this to him in his new job.

[NestorMakhnosLovechild]

And I am sure you will all remember this thread and your thoughts the next time you receive subpar service anywhere you might be: dinner, Best Buy, the mechanic, the dentist etc. Because you know, people can and should leave employers in the lurch and short staffed at any time. Maybe the guy tasked with overseeing your meal just never came in. But that is ok.

Tres horrible! I'm just glad that employers never fire their employees in ways that might leave them "in the lurch" - like, you know, when they have to make a mortgage or rent payment, or when they need to pay for their kids college educations, or around the holidays, or really ever, since presumably, most people need their jobs to live.

Wait. Hold on. Someone just told me that this happens all the fucking time. Who knew!?

[all swedes are racist]

Even if he didnt "owe" it to the business, at the very least he owed it to his coworkers. MC and the rest of his crew are the ones who are going to bear the extra burden, if he can't give them the time to get a replacement, at least give them a "hey, sorry, I'm leaving you guys in a pinch, but I have to for (insert reason/excuse here)"