U.S. Politics: Don't call it a shutdown

[Sci-2]

Boehner: The Nation Will Be On ‘The Path’ To Default If Obama Doesn’t Accept GOP Demands

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS (HOST): There have been some reports that you have told your own members that you would be willing to put a debt limit on the floor that would pass with Democratic votes, even if it didn’t get a majority of the Republican caucus. Is that no longer true?

BOEHNER: My goal here is not to have the United States default on its debt. My goal is to have a serious conversation about those things that are driving the deficit and the debt up and the president’s refusal to sit down and have a conversation about this is putting our nation.

STEPHANOPOULOS:

He continues to refuse to negotiate, the country is going to default?

BOEHNER:

That’s the path we’re on.

The president canceled his trip to Asia. I assume — he wants to have a conversation. I decided to stay here in washington this weekend. He knows what my phone number is. All he has to do is call.

Also:

SNL Shutdown Song

[Larkstongue]

"Hi, John, it's Barry. Yeah, go ahead and take out the device tax, or whatever the fuck you're asking for now. Just promise you'll never do this again. I trust you."

"Yes, Mr. President."

"Also, did you know your name is Boner? Phonetically, I mean."

"Yes, Mr. President."

Yeah, sure, just give him a call.

[Seli]

SerG,

Please, kindly, do not lump me with those who see compromise as an anathmatic concept. I'm the libertarian who has said he'd prefer single payer to the ACA because it deals with the real issue medical costs. Not all libertarians are dogmatists unwilling to compromise. As not all Statists see the State as the be all paneca to any and all ills.

...

To me that is an indication that (from a European perspective) US political terminology is messed up beyond rescue. Because that seems to be a classical liberal position, not a libertarian at all.

[Inigima]

Also:

SNL Shutdown Song

This is disturbing on so many levels. :lol:

[Rorshach]

true nuff, scot. barre regime was part of soviet bloc until '77 when he adopted nationalist greater somali policy and invaded commie ethiopia, which was supported by the world left. barre switched sides to the US thereafter. but he started a maoist.

the post-barre descent into post-socialist warlordism doesn't tally to any doctrine except coldwarism.

Slight fixing of facts: Somalia had Soviet backing until the DERG (ruling bloc) in Ethiopia decided to seek Soviet backing. Ethiopia being a much more important country meant Soviet left Somaila and joined Ethiopia. Up until '74, US had been on the Ethiopia side, and the DERG hadn't reconfigured until the Somali-Ethiopian war (they were busy purging).

[Tywin Manderly]

Maybe it is time for this.

Tweets

1. 1. Robin Hill ‏@SerRobinHill

      Perhaps, a million person march to surround the Capitol and let no one out till they fund the Govt and raise the debt ceiling.

      5:27 PM - 6 Oct 13

Get out the pitchforks and torches! :cheers:

[Shryke]

Yup, these people are bugfuckeringly crazy:

The Post has a profile in motion of freshman House Republican Ted Yoho (FL). The focus is how he's part of the faction who forced John Boehner to trigger the government shutdown and now wants to move along to default on the national debt. How bad will default be? "I think, personally, it would bring stability to the world markets," Yoho told the Post.

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/get-ready-it-s-going-to-happen

There many roots of this crisis. Demographic, ideological, regional, some parts tied to accidents of history (the existence of the debt ceiling itself), others to the structure of our government. But I think most people, as crazy as this looks, are underestimating the scope of the crisis we're in the midst of. The pieces are in place to resolve the matter quickly, in the narrow sense of the votes. But the House Tea Party (and it really does look more like a distinct party or faction at this point) is forcing the matter, despite having well under a hundred seats in the House. Behind them they have an aggrieved GOP base and sustaining them the vast tranches of money provided by the Kochs and other top GOP mega-funders. John Boehner, not structurally in the sense of his office or position but personally, is simply too weak a figure to avert what's coming. Get ready.

The scariest shit here seems to be the way the GOP in the House have ceded power to complete apocalyptic nutters with lots of money backing.

Now, Yoho is ready for a bigger fight. He doesn’t want to raise the debt ceiling — ever again. The experts, and Republican leaders, say that would trigger a financial catastrophe.

[Horza]

Hi Americans, it's your pal Horza.

I know you guys might have heard about this, but I'd just like to remind you that at as of right now the US Dollar is the global reserve currency and as such is used as a benchmark, a safe investment, and a means of underwriting and conducting a staggering amount of valuations, transactions and suchlike.

It's used that way because the US economy is incredibly big and really important and no one thinks you guys would ever do something crazy-stupid like default on your currency. That would pretty much explode that big global economy thing everyone keeps talking about and I think having another world financial crisis would be pretty crap and not really a positive development for anybody.

Anyway, just thought I'd bring that up, in case it has some relevance to anything that might be going on right now.

[Balefont]

Which is the thinking of the privileged who've never been on the wrong side of those issues.

It's easy to talk about how you don't need equal employment laws when you are a white male.

I white male who was probably born into a demographic with a high chance of personal success. At least that's been my general experience with Liberterians. And their wives are often parrots of their beliefs.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Seli,

To me that is an indication that (from a European perspective) US political terminology is messed up beyond rescue. Because that seems to be a classical liberal position, not a libertarian at all.

Aren't classical liberals a flavor of libertarian? If so are you not engaging in the inverse "no true Scotsman" fallacy?

Bale,

I white male who was probably born into a demographic with a high chance of personal success. At least that's been my general experience with Liberterians. And their wives are often parrots of their beliefs.

Good grief are y'all painting with an insultingly broad brush. You say that as though there is no thought, nuance, or consideration at all behind any person who holds to any portion of of libertarian philosophy. I respectfully take umbridge to overly broad statements along these lines.

I have, and will continue, to correct libertarians who claim supporters of the ACA simply want to increase the scope of government control over people's lives and such control is the primary purpose of the ACA. I know that is not the case and get frustrated and tired of broadbrush comments of that nature.

A person's anicdotal experience is not and will never be the universal set for a given catagory. Statements like "All X appear to be Y" are sterotypical overgenralizations.

[Fez]

Well then; I"m thrilled there's been such a groundswell of support for a Speakership bid on my behalf. I promise a fair, open and transparent government; with only a limited number of crushed enemies driven before us in chains while we hear the lamentations of their women.

I have to ask, though. Who would want Boehner's job? Not disagreeing that his Speakership is in danger. But seriously, who's going step up? Cantor?

I'd actually miss Boehner. He's amusing in a Rodney Dangerfield from Caddyshack on heavy tranquilizers kinda way. Except that he's presiding over an existential American crisis of government. That part's not so amusing.

Anyway, I heard a crazaaay rumor that, due to some loophole in the rules, a person who is not currently a Housemember can be elected Speaker. I wanted to come here to see if anyone knew anything about this, because it sounds insane. Fez, maybe? Could we have a Speaker DeMint or Speaker Cruz?

Its not really a loophole, there's just no requirement that the Speaker be a House member. Back in January, when about 10 Republicans refused to vote for Boehner in the Speaker election, they voted for all kinds of people; including Glenn Beck and Allen West (who, thankfully, is no longer in the House).

The thing is, there's very little chance of Boehner going anywhere; if only because being Speaker requires an absolute majority of support in the House, not a plurality. Any member at anytime can introduce a bill declaring the Speakership vacant, and all it would take would be all Democrats and 18+ Republicans voting for it; but the House is then forbidden from doing anything except holding vote after vote to determine a new Speaker. And there is no chance of 218 Republicans rallying around one person, not after the bad blood that this vote would trigger. Since the House literally cannot do anything until there's a Speaker, moderate Republicans would eventually have to cut some sort of coalition deal with Democrats. Maybe making Boehner Speaker, but Pelosi Majority Leader; something like that. And no Republican wants that.

On the other hand, the far-right has shown very little understanding of the consequences of their actions; so maybe they will force the issue depending on what happens on October 16/17.

Anyway, just thought I'd bring that up, in case it has some relevance to anything that might be going on right now.

Unfortunately, its been clear for a while now that the far-right shows a willful ignorance of nearly all facts. Those quotes from Yoho are illustrative, not unique, there's a sizable faction in the House GOP that honestly believes that the US government should default and that will result in more "freedom" which, together with some heretofore unknown rules of economics, will save us all.*

*Or at least straight, white, male Americans whose net values are at least seven figures.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

Well then; I"m thrilled there's been such a groundswell of support for a Speakership bid on my behalf. I promise a fair, open and transparent government; with only a limited number of crushed enemies driven before us in chains while we hear the lamentations of their women.

I'd be happy to support you for Speaker just because you quoted Conan. I don't need to know anything else.

[Lany Freelove Cassandra]

SNL Shutdown Song

That was very disturbing :lol:

Seli,

Aren't classical liberals a flavor of libertarian? If so are you not engaging in the inverse "no true Scotsman" fallacy?

Bale,

Good grief are y'all painting with an insultingly broad brush. You say that as though there is no thought, nuance, or consideration at all behind any person who holds to any portion of of libertarian philosophy. I respectfully take umbridge to overly broad statements along these lines.

I have, and will continue, to correct libertarians who claim supporters of the ACA simply want to increase the scope of government control over people's lives and such control is the primary purpose of the ACA. I know that is not the case and get frustrated and tired of broadbrush comments of that nature.

A person's anicdotal experience is not and will never be the universal set for a given catagory. Statements like "All X appear to be Y" are sterotypical overgenralizations.

You know I adore you Scot, but I think you take a of the criticism of Libertarians way to personally. You do not typify the majority.

To me, I would never consider you a selfish ______, but I think the majority if Libertarians are. Keep all their money for themselves and fuck the poor. Let them go to church for a hand out. No matter that churches can't feed them or offer medical care for their kids. (and churches in general! so in order to get any help, one has to have a certain belief?) Being a Libertarian is great if you are educated and firmly middle class.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Get out the pitchforks and torches! :cheers:

Or shut off the water to the Capitol. When the toilets stop working, they might have an incentive to stop this nonsense.

[Merentha]

Yup, these people are bugfuckeringly crazy:

http://talkingpointsmemo.com/edblog/get-ready-it-s-going-to-happen

It would...stabilize the global economy. Stabilize. What the fuck. Everything I've read about it basically says it'd be one of the single-handedly worst things that could happen to the global economy.

[Ormond]

Anyone notice the Scot usually does not capitalize "libertarian"?

I think you all are talking past each other because I think Scot is using the term "libertarian" to mean something different than "supporter of the ideals of the Libertarian Party", just as the word "democrat" does not mean the same thing as "Democrat" in the American political context.

I think "young privileged White men who read too much Ayn Rand" is probably a much better description of the average Libertarian Party activist than it is of the broader group of people who see themselves as being influenced by general "libertarian" ideas.

[Fez]

It would...stabilize the global economy. Stabilize. What the fuck. Everything I've read about it basically says it'd be one of the single-handedly worst things that could happen to the global economy.

To be fair, once the economy has crashed so hard that it won't be getting up again for decades, it'll very stable; just like I'm sure the Titanic is very stable resting on the ocean floor.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Ormond,

Thank you for seeing the distinction.

Lany,

I appreciate what you are saying. My complaint is defining libertarian as a jerk who is completely self interested and cares nothing for others. As I pointed out to Seli it smacks of the "no true Scotsman" fallacy.

[Altherion]

Its not really a loophole, there's just no requirement that the Speaker be a House member. Back in January, when about 10 Republicans refused to vote for Boehner in the Speaker election, they voted for all kinds of people; including Glenn Beck and Allen West (who, thankfully, is no longer in the House).

The thing is, there's very little chance of Boehner going anywhere; if only because being Speaker requires an absolute majority of support in the House, not a plurality. Any member at anytime can introduce a bill declaring the Speakership vacant, and all it would take would be all Democrats and 18+ Republicans voting for it; but the House is then forbidden from doing anything except holding vote after vote to determine a new Speaker. And there is no chance of 218 Republicans rallying around one person, not after the bad blood that this vote would trigger. Since the House literally cannot do anything until there's a Speaker, moderate Republicans would eventually have to cut some sort of coalition deal with Democrats. Maybe making Boehner Speaker, but Pelosi Majority Leader; something like that. And no Republican wants that.

Wouldn't it be amusing if, when things get really desperate with the debt, the moderate Republicans and Democrats agree on a non-Congress, Elder Statesperson type Republican to serve as Speaker until this mess is resolved? Somebody with national renown who will never run for office again and doesn't take offense to being remembered as a moderate. For example, Sandra Day O'Connor. It's highly unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Altherion,

Wouldn't it be amusing if, when things get really desperate with the debt, the moderate Republicans and Democrats agree on a non-Congress, Elder Statesperson type Republican to serve as Speaker until this mess is resolved? Somebody with national renown who will never run for office again and doesn't take offense to being remembered as a moderate. For example, Sandra Day O'Connor. It's highly unlikely, but stranger things have happened.

As a student of history that would be extremely cool.