U.S. Politics: Don't call it a shutdown

[SkynJay]

Just because I wanted to start one for once.

Continue.

[Robin Of House Hill]

Not only is it a shutdown, but it is blackmail.

[Arch-MaesterPhilip]

It's also the Republican Party committing suicide. Take that as a positive.

[Inigima]

1.) Rand Paul is more of a Libertarian than he is a Republican. He doesn't adopt the views of the GOP in order to get the vote. For example, Paul adamantly opposes the militaristic regime that began under Bush (the same reason why his father never really stood a chance in 2012). Another left-leaning policy involved his view that the same-sex marriage debate does not belong to the federal government.

I could give a long list of reasons for my support but limited government would be the crux of my argument.

2.) I wasn't talking about pointing fingers at Republicans on this specific issue; I was commenting on the nature of finger pointing and how it has led to the ongoing political civil war known as bipartisanship. Both parties devote far too much time to tearing the other down. The focus needs to be on moving forward, which necessitates some degree of active compromise.

3.) http://rogueoperator...d-war-spending/

This article sums up my reasoning for the most part. For me, drones have been the most frightening aspect of Obama's regime. I have yet to come across a compelling argument for moral justification.

This isn't regarding your post specifically, but I'm genuinely amazed by the number of people who assume I'm a Republic because I have beef with the Democrats. It's so far from the truth that I feel ridiculous having to refute some of these claims. [

This is Captain Falcon from the previous thread. It's emblematic of an impressive bit of political jujitsu from the right: successfully convincing people that they aren't really Republicans. it's a response to the damaged brand of the Republican Party, and it's been quite successful.

The two most successful rebrandings of Republican candidates have been as libertarians and Tea Partiers. Practitioners minimize their association with Republicans, sometimes by attacking them. But if you look more closely, you notice that despite all that, they caucus as a bloc, they strategize as a bloc, and they vote as a bloc. It's a repetition of the hoodwinking Arlen Specter used to pull before switching parties, where he'd say some very commendable things and then vote against them, because it's the comments that got the attention.

There are exceptions -- the Tea Party's true believers are the obvious example. But mostly these people are really just Republicans, and are doing their best to trick voters like Captain Falcon into believing otherwise.

[Shryke]

This is Captain Falcon from the previous thread. It's emblematic of an impressive bit of political jujitsu from the right: successfully convincing people that they aren't really Republicans. it's a response to the damaged brand of the Republican Party, and it's been quite successful.

The two most successful rebrandings of Republican candidates have been as libertarians and Tea Partiers. Practitioners minimize their association with Republicans, sometimes by attacking them. But if you look more closely, you notice that despite all that, they caucus as a bloc, they strategize as a bloc, and they vote as a bloc. It's a repetition of the hoodwinking Arlen Specter used to pull before switching parties, where he'd say some very commendable things and then vote against them, because it's the comments that got the attention.

There are exceptions -- the Tea Party's true believers are the obvious example. But mostly these people are really just Republicans, and are doing their best to trick voters like Captain Falcon into believing otherwise.

Vote Ron Paul!

Sure he votes party line when it actually counts, but he occasionally talks like he wouldn't!

[Shryke]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304176904579117532532939264.html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories

The Pentagon on Saturday said it would call most of its 350,000 furloughed civilian workers back to their jobs, concluding that a recent law allows officials to consider them critical to protecting national security.

The Pentagon employs the largest share of the 800,000 federal workers sent home during the government shutdown. It has been forced to halt military training for many personnel, shutter commissaries, send intelligence analysts home and suspend a range of activities.

The Defense Department's announcement came as the House of Representatives voted unanimously to provide back pay to all furloughed federal workers once the shutdown ends.

The 407-0 vote reflected rare agreement between Republicans and Democrats, who said that the federal workers should not be pawns in a larger political fight over government spending priorities.

Still, there was no sign that either party was ready to abandon its terms for ending the shutdown, which reached its fifth day on Saturday.

Crazy US government.

[Inigima]

I think the Pentagon's civilian workforce should be at work too, but I wish we'd just reopen the entire fucking government instead of giving the military preferential treatment like always.

[sologdin]

oh, thank goodness. a janitors' coup has been thwarted with timely IOUs.

[Ormond]

There are certainly some interesting anomalies in all this.

I have a good friend who is the organist for the Roman Catholic military chapel at Offutt Air Force Base. He just told me at lunch that he is still getting paid. When he signed his last contract (which goes through June) evidently the money to pay him for the entire contract was somehow transferred from Washington to some local account which his monthly checks actually come from. So technically the federal government has somehow paid for his services through next June already, even though he himself hasn't gotten the checks yet, and therefore he will still get paid at least until then.

[Daemul]

Tbh, I secretly want to see this whole crisis unresolved until the 16th(the day before the US would have to default) just to see the beginnings of mass panic. It won't get that far though, at least I bloody hope not.

[Fez]

There are certainly some interesting anomalies in all this.

I have a good friend who is the organist for the Roman Catholic military chapel at Offutt Air Force Base. He just told me at lunch that he is still getting paid. When he signed his last contract (which goes through June) evidently the money to pay him for the entire contract was somehow transferred from Washington to some local account which his monthly checks actually come from. So technically the federal government has somehow paid for his services through next June already, even though he himself hasn't gotten the checks yet, and therefore he will still get paid at least until then.

There's all sorts of interesting accounting going on. I know some people at one agency who through a random quirk are paid through an account funded through mandatory fees, whereas almost everyone else with that exact same job at the agency are paid through an account funded through annual appropriations. It was just a random decision made when during the HR hiring process, but it means that these people were given the excepted designation since the shutdown doesn't impact the mandatory fee account.

They still aren't going to get paid until the shutdown ends, but only because the people who process the checks were non-excepted; it was never in doubt for them.

[ThinkerX]

Tbh, I secretly want to see this whole crisis unresolved until the 16th(the day before the US would have to default) just to see the beginnings of mass panic. It won't get that far though, at least I bloody hope not.

You do realize a last minute fix is the current BEST case scenario?

Both sides are dug in.

At this point, much as it annoys me to write it, the best hope for a resolution comes from the money men behind the Republican Party. When this shutdown turns into a default that threatens their profits, they will basically order their congressional minions to come to a deal NOW or watch their campaign contributions go away.

[Tywin Manderly]

You do realize a last minute fix is the current BEST case scenario?

Both sides are dug in.

At this point, much as it annoys me to write it, the best hope for a resolution comes from the money men behind the Republican Party. When this shutdown turns into a default that threatens their profits, they will basically order their congressional minions to come to a deal NOW or watch their campaign contributions go away.

A plutocracy..... :bang:

[Opisthokont]

At this point, much as it annoys me to write it, the best hope for a resolution comes from the money men behind the Republican Party. When this shutdown turns into a default that threatens their profits, they will basically order their congressional minions to come to a deal NOW or watch their campaign contributions go away.

Or go short in everything and order them to stay the course.

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

If there is anybody still thinking that the democrats are equally at fault, this excellent piece by the NYT should dispel that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?pagewanted=1&hp&_r=0

They wanted to do this all along.

[Daemul]

You do realize a last minute fix is the current BEST case scenario?

Both sides are dug in.

At this point, much as it annoys me to write it, the best hope for a resolution comes from the money men behind the Republican Party. When this shutdown turns into a default that threatens their profits, they will basically order their congressional minions to come to a deal NOW or watch their campaign contributions go away.

Is it really that bad? Oh boy, It's worse then I thought, I hope you're right and the money men step in and put an end to this, otherwise the economy will go tits up. Unless of course, the crazies in the Republican Party see a default and the crashing of the American economy as something that needs to happen for the "greater good".

[WeirwoodTreeHugger]

I didn't get a chance to defend my Somalia comment before the first thread got locked, so I will do it here.

I wasn't saying that Somalia is a libertarian country. There are no libertarian countries and there probably never will be. The point is, because Somalia is a completely failed state, the government is weak and is unable to protect the welfare of its people, steer the economy or provide relief for natural disasters (in this case drought). Because of that people have to rely on piracy to earn money or just emigrate.

A libertarian country would unlike Somalia, purposely have a weak government that is unwilling to protect the welfare of its people, steer the economy or provide relief for natural disasters. The result would be similar. Such a country would have high poverty and crime rates and people would either emigrate en masse or rebel.

[Ser Scot A Ellison]

Weirwood,

A libertarian country would unlike Somalia, purposely have a weak government that is unwilling to protect the welfare of its people, steer the economy or provide relief for natural disasters. The result would be similar. Such a country would have high poverty and crime rates and people would either emigrate en masse or rebel.

Libertarians tend to be fairly serious about defending individual liberties and are willing to use government power to do so. A government of limited powers does not equate to anarchic (in the generic not leftist political sense) free for all where Government has no effective power to protect the lives and property of its citizens.

You are assuming anarchy must be the result of a libertarian state. Given the fact that Somalia was not a libertarian state before it collasped could anarchy not be the end result of a more powerful centralized state too? You are assuming that limited government must mean ineffective government. That does not necessarily follow. You are allowing your assumptions to provide your conclusion.

[Fragile Bird]

If there is anybody still thinking that the democrats are equally at fault, this excellent piece by the NYT should dispel that.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/10/06/us/a-federal-budget-crisis-months-in-the-planning.html?pagewanted=1&hp&_r=0

They wanted to do this all along.

Once again, the Koch brothers.

[sologdin]

my eastern european wife informs me that these kinda shenanigans would not be tolerated under uncle joe, who'd've shot these motherfuckers a long while ago. (wife wouldn't shoot them. she would rather kill them with lemon zester. no shit!)

because they are not yet shot (or zested), it follows that BHO is not yet a stalinist.