The Walking Dead: Season 4 - No Comic Spoilers!

[Jace, Extat]

Am I the only person who kinda liked the governor? He was a good villain.

[Ser Rodrigo Belmonte]

Yeah he was good right until the end when he goes complete batshit.

[awesome possum]

I don't really understand the hate either, except maybe that he was so tied into the terrible Andrea arc.

[Nictarion]

I think David Morrissey was great as the governor.

[drawkcabi]

For me the Governor was a good villain for a season but I wished he'd been killed at the end of season 3 because his arc has all ready gone through enough change that having him as an antagonist again just seems like it would be a bit of retreading and boring, or even silly. Whatever they do to the governor's character - looks like making him even more insane than ever, if that's possible, it's still a mostly known entity. A new antagonist would be something more interesting, someone completely unknown, what this person's motivations? their state of mind? etc.

Lots of shows do have recurring villains that are great when they return, but the idea of Governor just seems to have an exhausted feel to it now.

[Ken Stone]

So the disease can be easily cured by random antibiotics. ..I guess all these episodes was filler until the return of the governor, probably to pad out the season.

I don't think that's fair. A major component of this show is exploring a world in which a Z-Day happens. That has interesting implications on things that we sort of take for granted in today's world. A normal flu becomes a huge danger in a world where medical treatment is hard to come by, people live in close quarters, and the dead rise up to eat you. That is what they have been exploring and I've found it very interesting.

[Jace, Extat]

I don't think that's fair. A major component of this show is exploring a world in which a Z-Day happens. That has interesting implications on things that we sort of take for granted in today's world. A normal flu becomes a huge danger in a world where medical treatment is hard to come by, people live in close quarters, and the dead rise up to eat you. That is what they have been exploring and I've found it very interesting.

I don't think it's fair that a guy's massive internal bleeding (hinted at by blood literally pouring out of his mouth and eyes) is cured by "anything ending with cin"

Also, anyone else find it ill-advised that 1) you can apparently keep someone from dying from internal bleeding with a BVM (bag valve mask) or 2) putting your lips on a deathly ill person's bodily fluids has no repercussions.

[Dr. Pepper]

I didn't much enjoy the episode, but I'm not quite sure why. I think it may be a bit because that last scene with the governor made me realize that the next episode will involve only or mostly him where they will want to fill us in on what he's been up to. I don't like when they do that as it always feels like the momentum of the season falters. There are ways to tell us what he's been up to without rehashing it or removing us from the plot at the prison we've spent five episodes engrossed with. We knew what the prison people were up to for six months just by being shown their gardens and buildings and a bit of exposition. Maybe they won't do an episode that is basically all a governor flashback. I really hope not, but I don't have high hopes. In any case, that last scene sort of soured it because of my (hopefully false) expectations for next week.

I really liked that last scene. Rick and Carl, two peas in a pod (though at a glance, those plants looked more like soybeans). The focus on the gun was interesting.

Lizzie swirling that blood around actually turned my stomach for some reason, and that's really hard to do. I'm guessing she now realizes that zombies aren't people, they aren't even like dogs. Can't be trained, can't be reasoned with. Big scary things. All that hope Hershel has been trying to hold onto seems like it might have left Lizzie.

I can get past the stupid "antibiotics cures everything" because it happens all the time in entertainment as a quick way to wrap up a plot point. But holy shit, please tell me they weren't storing the guns and ammo that way all the time. Out in the elements, completely uncovered. I hope it was someone's job to constantly maintain them and I really hope they aren't left out like that all the time every single day. I was waiting for the guns to jam or something worse.

Another great episode.

I would just like to draw attention to the scene where Herschel said he was dragging the dead bodies out back and burning them. He did it without consulting anyone first. He did it without anything to hide. So there.

Yes, because doing it and not hiding it when there are not enough people around to deal with the bodies, is exactly the same as doing it and hiding it when there are plenty of people around to deal with the bodies. I'm sure there's no need to point out that Carol did it in complete secret soon after the council had decided to segregate the sick and made no discussion about how to manage the bodies...you know, because there were enough people around to bury and continue maintaining life at the prison. :rolleyes: So, there.

[Jerol]

I liked this episode mainly because it showed Herschel as the hero and he's been on the sidelines for a long time. The actor did a very good job of showing the heavy cost it was taking on him but he never faltered.

[Battle Kitten]

Well, did they specify what treatment they were using? They went out for antibiotics but it I doubt someone with medical training would have passed up antivirals, steroids, or painkillers as well. These are all listed as illnesses that cause coughing of blood Bronchiectasis, Bronchitis, Inflammation of the blood vessels in the lung (vasculitis), Injury to the arteries of the lungs, Pneumonia or other lung infections, Pulmonary edema, Tuberculosis. Now some of them are easily ruled out but if you have a particularly virulent flu that causes a massive secondary infection, the secondary infection is what kills you after you have been depleted by the diarrhea, vomiting, and fever from the flu. So it is possible they are treating these secondary infections and not the flu directly.

There is enough logical leeway for me to suspend my disbelief on the flu.

Overall, it was a pretty solid episode and gave Herschel some good face time. Hopefully, this doesn't mean he gets eaten or kidnapped by the Governor. We got some good male bonding between Carl and Rick. I get that Rick wants to protect Carl, try his best to let him have a little bit of a childhood, and keep him from becoming a sociopath but once the box is opened, it can't really be closed. Carl has aged up way too much to be stuck in the kiddie story time. As a dad, Rick needs to bridge that gap between being a kid and an adult with Carl because Carl is going to be needed in an adult, zed killing capacity more often than not. Maggie took the news of Carol well...We'll see about Daryl. I hope he doesn't get all stupid and go look for her. Michonne might miss him.

Count me as one of the people who was majorly cheesed by his cartoony reappearance at the end of an otherwise pretty good episode. I'm on the fence about the Gov. On the one hand, they have set it up that there is unfinished business with him. On the other, too much has happened, and it feels like a retread.

[Arbor Gold]

I hope it was someone's job to constantly maintain them and I really hope they aren't left out like that all the time every single day.

Hopefully it is not the same person who is in charge of fence patrol and maintainance because that person sucks. :lol:

[Talleyrand]

So in the end the big plague that has been the threat for five episodes failed to kill any actual characters and instead just picked off a few redshirts

[Baitac]

I thought it was clearly established that Herschel requested antibiotics for secondary bacterial infections resulting from this viral flu. I don't think they cured anybody. They just had to survive the Ebola like symptoms on their own. Although with Ebola you bleed out of all orifices, not just the head's. Ugh.

Regarding the Governor: I loved to hate him. However, part of the creepiness of his allure was how he had set up this fake "perfect little town." With all of that gone, I find it hard to believe that he has a significant number of followers and wonder where he is headquartered. Because one guy versus the gang is not going to work.

[Baitac]

So in the end the big plague that has been the threat for five episodes failed to kill any actual characters and instead just picked off a few redshirts

Carol may have not died from the disease but she was made an outcast because of it, so I call her a casualty of the whole virus debacle. Plus, we still don't know if anyone else will develop it (like Herschel, God forbid).

[Arbor Gold]

So in the end the big plague that has been the threat for five episodes failed to kill any actual characters and instead just picked off a few redshirts

Yes because being one of the heroes gives them Magic Plague Immunity or, in Glenn's case, ensures that he will be cured by super-antibiotics just before blood starts leaking from his eyeballs.

Looks like Carol was the biggest plague casualty here, with Tyreese or maybe Herschel in second place. Yawn. Although I guess it was an interesting contrast, seeing how Carol handled the situation (kill them!) vs Herschel (save them!). I can't help but feel, however, that the situation in Quarantine didn't have to get as bad as it did. Why weren't all the patients on lockdown?

[TheNorth's1stKnight]

where did the governor come from? has he just been chilling next to the prison the whole time?

[Dr. Pepper]

Hopefully it is not the same person who is in charge of fence patrol and maintainance because that person sucks. :lol:

Haha, so true so true!

I've been thinking a bit about the fence. A lot of the lack of reenforcing of the fence likely has to do with plot elements. It adds drama and yada yada. But I think it might also be realistic. For several months, the double fence was a perfectly safe barrier that worked and worked well. They did clean ups at least most days to take out the zombies that had gathered and for those handful of months, it worked and there was no indication that the double fence would not continue to work. When zombies did come, they would spread out along the fence. It's a classic don't fix it if it ain't broken sort of scenario. It just happens that they started the season right when several shitty things happened all at once. It's easier for a think tank to be commissioned in a fully developed and highly populated society to think of all the problems that could occur and then think of all the solutions to fix these hypothetical problems. A think-tank within their group that is separate from the council figuring out everyday problems might come up with the idea that someone could feed rats to zombies at specific points, leaving blood and inciting them to gather in one spot and come up with ideas to combat that. Right now, they may have a access to perishable resources like automobiles, guns and ammo, and fuel, but they are still basically knocked back into a pre-industrial tribal society where nearly all manpower has to go into gathering resources to survive, like food and water.

That's a sort of defense barrier in itself because it discourages the intelligent living people from trying to access the prison without a proper invite. The groups within the prison have already seen that the living could be more terrifying than the walkers because at least with the walkers, their terror is predictable. The more manmade defenses that are apparent to random people strolling the woods, the more the prison risks attack by the living. I think it's basic human nature. You see a locked door, you want to know what's behind that door. Sometimes there's a person who wants the mystery behind the door so bad that they convince others to help him or her break it down. The governor really wanted that prison and he wanted that prison long before he wanted revenge on specific people within that prison. He wanted it so bad that he had two kidnapped people tortured to find out where it was. He knew that the prison that people were living in and thus was cleared of zombies and had a safe barrier was a something really great. If they were supporting Michonne still looking for the Gov all that time, I can't help but think that they also realize there there may be other assholes like him.

Building up defenses take a lot of resources. That's a lot of time, manpower, and material. Having two barrier fences and a suggestion that the prison is populated is one thing. Someone passing by might see it and think, "damn, having all those zombies surrounding you must really suck. Not even gonna try because it's way too much work." But if there were massive defenses that kept the zombies completely clear of the prison, defenses like pits circling the fences or all those traps Morgan had placed, it just risks others wanting to take it that much more because everything is already in place. Plus, creating these sorts of defenses requires more people which requires more food and water which requires more people which...a cycle that keeps going.

There's also the fact that in this hyper reality, they are completely unaware of zombies. There are no books or films about zombies. There's no George Romero or Max Brooks and pretty much no awareness of any sort of post-apocalyptic literature. It's a common thing authors do in this genre. The characters are a complete blank slate in their environment so what we'd see as common sense deductions because we've seen at least an idea of it before, they simply have no idea. It would be like tossing an average person into a nuclear facility and telling her to maintain it without any training or pop culture insight to draw from. It's effective because zombie and other post-ap fic isn't usually about the contagion that caused it, but more a study of the facets of human nature.

TL;DR I think the lack of defense at the fence is realistic because they are basically trying to maintain a nuclear power plant without any idea of how it works and having to learn as they go.

The characters are a blank slate when it comes to this sort of stuff.

[Tquinn BC]

Haha, so true so true!

I've been thinking a bit about the fence. A lot of the lack of reenforcing of the fence likely has to do with plot elements. It adds drama and yada yada. But I think it might also be realistic. For several months, the double fence was a perfectly safe barrier that worked and worked well. They did clean ups at least most days to take out the zombies that had gathered and for those handful of months, it worked and there was no indication that the double fence would not continue to work. When zombies did come, they would spread out along the fence. It's a classic don't fix it if it ain't broken sort of scenario. It just happens that they started the season right when several shitty things happened all at once. It's easier for a think tank to be commissioned in a fully developed and highly populated society to think of all the problems that could occur and then think of all the solutions to fix these hypothetical problems. A think-tank within their group that is separate from the council figuring out everyday problems might come up with the idea that someone could feed rats to zombies at specific points, leaving blood and inciting them to gather in one spot and come up with ideas to combat that. Right now, they may have a access to perishable resources like automobiles, guns and ammo, and fuel, but they are still basically knocked back into a pre-industrial tribal society where nearly all manpower has to go into gathering resources to survive, like food and water.

That's a sort of defense barrier in itself because it discourages the intelligent living people from trying to access the prison without a proper invite. The groups within the prison have already seen that the living could be more terrifying than the walkers because at least with the walkers, their terror is predictable. The more manmade defenses that are apparent to random people strolling the woods, the more the prison risks attack by the living. I think it's basic human nature. You see a locked door, you want to know what's behind that door. Sometimes there's a person who wants the mystery behind the door so bad that they convince others to help him or her break it down. The governor really wanted that prison and he wanted that prison long before he wanted revenge on specific people within that prison. He wanted it so bad that he had two kidnapped people tortured to find out where it was. He knew that the prison that people were living in and thus was cleared of zombies and had a safe barrier was a something really great. If they were supporting Michonne still looking for the Gov all that time, I can't help but think that they also realize there there may be other assholes like him.

Building up defenses take a lot of resources. That's a lot of time, manpower, and material. Having two barrier fences and a suggestion that the prison is populated is one thing. Someone passing by might see it and think, "damn, having all those zombies surrounding you must really suck. Not even gonna try because it's way too much work." But if there were massive defenses that kept the zombies completely clear of the prison, defenses like pits circling the fences or all those traps Morgan had placed, it just risks others wanting to take it that much more because everything is already in place. Plus, creating these sorts of defenses requires more people which requires more food and water which requires more people which...a cycle that keeps going.

There's also the fact that in this hyper reality, they are completely unaware of zombies. There are no books or films about zombies. There's no George Romero or Max Brooks and pretty much no awareness of any sort of post-apocalyptic literature. It's a common thing authors do in this genre. The characters are a complete blank slate in their environment so what we'd see as common sense deductions because we've seen at least an idea of it before, they simply have no idea. It would be like tossing an average person into a nuclear facility and telling her to maintain it without any training or pop culture insight to draw from. It's effective because zombie and other post-ap fic isn't usually about the contagion that caused it, but more a study of the facets of human nature.

TL;DR I think the lack of defense at the fence is realistic because they are basically trying to maintain a nuclear power plant without any idea of how it works and having to learn as they go.

The characters are a blank slate when it comes to this sort of stuff.

Fantastic summary. Its very easy for tv watchers to point and say, "just let go!" or "just build a bigger wall"

[the hound of sansa]

I don't know what you're saying, the Governor is a great and charismatic villain. Andrea was last season's problem, not him. And I am really excited for his return

[Arbor Gold]

Fantastic summary. Its very easy for tv watchers to point and say, "just let go!" or "just build a bigger wall"

Or to yell "The fence nearly failed once, that was a valuable teaching moment!!" :P