The Anti-Targ Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Good that the movie gave some Hank Pym backstory, and that Janet Van Dyne was the Wasp. Changed things up and obviously set up Hope to be the new Wasp rather than the Red Queen, since she still loves her father and seems to be well disposed to the Avengers (being one of the goodies). But perhaps they might do something to mix it up and somehow have Hank Pym killed in such a way that Hope blames the Avengers and thus she does turn and become the Red Queen. I think that would be a good thing to do, it would add some nuance. Heck, maybe even they make it that it looks like Scott Lang kills Hank Pym. In general the movie was really just a long intro, which was always going to be a bit of a problem but they carried it off well enough, especially by telling some back story. The central plot of the movie (the Yellowjacket conspiracy) was a bit like an extended episode of Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. I enjoyed the supporting cast, well Scott's buddies. It was weird seeing Avon Barksdale as police though. Nice to see Wood Harris get some more acting gigs. Cast from the wire keeps popping up all over the place, though it seems odd that it was mostly the UK/Ireland origin actors from The Wire who actually got big. The second post script didn't really reveal much, except that the conversation was after Ironman and Captain America have their falling out. I do wonder if that scene will be in the Civil War movie itself. But it was good to see a tie in between the scene with Falcon in the movie itself and Civil War. So, what did you all think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 It was okay. If I'm being honest, it's on par with Incredible Hulk. It'll be one of those movies that gets lost in the shuffle, no doubt. It wasn't bad, it just wasn't anything you'll have a desire to rewatch unless you're doing a Marvel movie marathon, where your inner completest needs to see all the puzzle pieces. I actually would like Marvel to release low key movies every once in awhile -- not everything has to be a huge complicated blockbuster. However, I thought this could've worked better. Ant-Man is an eccentric-type character that would do well in a more eccentric type film. Maybe my problem with this movie is that they didn't do enough to break their mold when the opportunity was there. Marvel still struggles with putting nuanced villains on screen. Yellowjacket was a caricature. His motivation was cliche...typical mustache twirler. I don't know why Marvel isn't more focused in this area. It's a constant critique with all their films...even the films people love are criticized for generic antagonists. Hope was your typical tough-as-nails ice queen. I would've liked for them to use Janet's personality for Hope. We already have Hope's archetype in Black Widow and any number of other Marvel females. It would've been nice for them to make Hope "kick ass" in less literal ways. Not every Marvel heroine needs to know how to do that crotch takedown. Since Hope will be donning the Wasp suit, she doesn't necessarily need to know how to fight. Douglas was good as Pym, as was Rudd as Scott Lang. They did really well with what they were given, I just don't think they were given much. I thought the little girl playing Cassie was great...they could've made Scott's relationship with her more of a focal point. Beyond that, I loved the stuff with Hank Pym based in the past. This movie could've worked well telling two stories which linked at the end. Honestly, the breakout star of the movie was Michael Pena as Luis...he had the funniest gags in the film, and his two scenes where he was "flashbacking" to Scott were probably the two best scenes in the movie. It was okay, but I left wanting more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Littlefingers In The Air Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Would y'all say kids (7 and 9) could get into this movie? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastard of Boston Posted July 17, 2015 Share Posted July 17, 2015 Would y'all say kids (7 and 9) could get into this movie? There's a few minor curses...a character gets called a pussy and there's some "shit" thrown about. But, without those, the movie would be perfect for a kid. There's pet ants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Bauer 24 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 This was pretty bad unfortunately. The dialogue and writing were pretty cringeworthy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The King in Black Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 Average at best. Wait till it comes on tv. I think I'm going to stick with the Netflix shows for now. The movies just aren't working for me anymore ; the only Marvel movie I'm really looking forward to is Civil War, and that too because I liked what the Russo brothers did last time and am curious to see how they handle this. This franchise desperately needs something fresh or new in terms of themes , settings or tone ala Daredevil or GOTG. The reason GOTG worked is because it dived straight into the Marvel mushiness ; Daredevil did the exact opposite. Everything else floats in limbo in the dead centre of the spectrum ; its getting boring Otherwise, there's nothing worthy of being talked about this film. The actors, like in every MCU film, give more than their best to bring their roles to life. And I hate to be the one who's doing this, but they really should've let Edgar Wright do his schtick. 6/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corvinus85 Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 I liked it, it had appropriate funny moments, the story wasn't bad, and the action scenes weren't as ridiculous as I thought they might be. Loved the prologue, I also liked the Avengers connections. One thing I really liked was that for the first time one of these superheroes considered bringing on the big guys (i.e. the Avengers) to solve his problem. Sure, his idea got shot down with a kinda feeble excuse, but at least there was a thought. As per usual, the villain was not up to par. Corey Stoll was actually not bad at all, he played the sociopath pretty well, but I failed to understand why he became a bad guy. Just 'cause his mentor shut him out? In fact, character motivations were a bit iffy at times. And I have no idea how long Scott's training period lasted, it seemed a bit too short. Also quite a few Chekov guns in the story, though the big one at the end was weird and it reminded me of Interstellar. As a Marvel movie, it's about average. I'm glad that they knew they shouldn't get too ambitious. The save the world plot wasn't that impending as in others. 7.5/10 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 As per usual, the villain was not up to par. Corey Stoll was actually not bad at all, he played the sociopath pretty well, but I failed to understand why he became a bad guy. He felt shut-out by Pym, decided to one-up his mentor by replicating the Pym particle. Under way he sniffed a little to much of the gas and that turned him evil. Pym remarks that Cross was never the most stable guy and the gas really did a number on him. That's the kool-aid the movie wants you to drink anyway ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Tiger Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 He felt shut-out by Pym, decided to one-up his mentor by replicating the Pym particle. Under way he sniffed a little to much of the gas and that turned him evil. Pym remarks that Cross was never the most stable guy and the gas really did a number on him. That's the kool-aid the movie wants you to drink anyway ;) As a well-known sipper of Superherofilmhaterade, why on Earth did you go see it? :stillsick: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 18, 2015 Share Posted July 18, 2015 As a well-known sipper of Superherofilmhaterade, why on Earth did you go see it? :stillsick: Well Red, sometimes you just have to take one for the team I guess. If my friends have to sit through my picks, I sometimes have to endure one of theirs :P Plus, there were some other mitigating factors. There is nothing else really worth seeing in the theatres right now :( I like Paul Rudd (like 60% of the time, all the time) and well, I'm clearly not made of stone you know :P EDIT: [spoiler] Evangeline Lily's haircut was like my biggest disappointment in the entire movie :P Such a crime[/spoiler] For the record, I quite liked it. I think I said yesterday that this was a 6,5-7/10 for me, which is more than most Marvel films get. The echo's of Edgar Wright and the heist element at least made it less stale than all those other Marvel films. There was still plenty that annoyed me, but since for the one time that I'm seeing this I'm able to forgive that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Anti-Targ Posted July 20, 2015 Author Share Posted July 20, 2015 I forgot there was already a Paul Rudd / Ant-man thread. SHould this one be merged with the other, or can they coexist? What are people's thoughts about whether Hope should remain as WASP or should the MCU do something, like kill Hank Pym, and turn her into the Red Queen? Some of the criticisms of the motivations of the villans (everyone is out for world domination / making billions of dollars for themselves) can be addressed if hope becomes Red Queen with a personal vendetta against S.H.I.E.L.D / The Avengers. One thing I'd quite like is for there to be an A-list star who is a recurring antagonist (other than Loki who's daddy issues does make him a differently motivated antagonist, albeit still with world/galaxy domination intentions), so why not Evangeline as Red Queen? I was hoping Ultron wouldn;t be a one-movie wonder but it appears that he (and James Spader's voice) will be exactly that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RumHam Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I was hoping Ultron wouldn;t be a one-movie wonder but it appears that he (and James Spader's voice) will be exactly that. Ultron could easily come back. Sure they deleted him from the internet, but whose to say he didn't burn himself to a disk somewhere. I know I'd never rely on the cloud as my only backup of something important. Also some have speculated that if/when Thanos takes the Mind Gem from Vision he may revert to the Ultron code that had been uploaded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 What are people's thoughts about whether Hope should remain as WASP or should the MCU do something, like kill Hank Pym, and turn her into the Red Queen? Some of the criticisms of the motivations of the villans (everyone is out for world domination / making billions of dollars for themselves) can be addressed if hope becomes Red Queen with a personal vendetta against S.H.I.E.L.D / The Avengers. As someone who doesn't read comics and has only a slight idea of Red Queen, I think it's way more likely for the mother to return as an evil villain (being a bit messed up by those twenty years shrinking). There is a reason why they carefully blocked out the face of the mother in all the scenes and photo's with her in it. So either she comes back as a villain, or her rescue all of a sudden becomes an important plotpoint in one of the next instalments. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guy Kilmore Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 I had the same thought too for the same reasons. I liked it. It was fun, it was breezy, the story was tight and it fit well together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 As I said in the other thread, I liked it. Better than Guardians. It played a little with the broader world of the Avengers, but still stood mostly on its own. I took Yellowjacket to be more of a Obadiah Stane retread actually. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mars447 Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 This movie should be called Wasp. And the thing is, the movie actually acknowledges this! But you can't lampshade something (Marvel's complete inability to film a female led superhero movie, no matter how much more qualified that character might be) while still playing it straight (by not making a female led superhero movie). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KiDisaster Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 It was watchable. Had its moments. Definitely not the worst of the New-MCU movies. That's about the best I can really give it. Some of the dialogue was pretty bad (the scene around the table near the beginning where they're going over Lang's crime 'resume' in particular is some of the most heavy-handed exposition I can recall seeing in a film. I know they had to cover it quickly but come on). The foreshadowing was pretty heavy-handed as well. Lang going subatomic, the key chain being a real tank, Hope becoming Wasp, Step-Dad turning out to be not such a bad guy after all. You can see it all coming a mile away. The whole thing with Hope Pym being infinitely more qualified than Lang not to mention already trained and ready to go but not being allowed to do the job herself because reasons annoyed me. Even the paper-thin "I'm expendable, you're not" justification falls apart since Hank gives her her own suit at the end of the movie anyway. Two final things: 1. Has Corey Stoll ever not played an asshole? 2. Michael Peña's performance is by far the best thing about this movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
denstorebog Posted July 20, 2015 Share Posted July 20, 2015 Better than Guardians. Wut Anyway, I agree that this scrapes the bottom along with Hulk. Marvel really needs to stop going predictable if they want public opinion to stay with them. Good thing Civil War is next up! In this particular movie, they should have made all the little relationships less black/white (everything concerning Scott's family situation was nauseating), and the villain was rubbish. In general, there was so much cringeworthy stuff that just screamed for more subtlety or self-irony. But the biggest miss for me was the subatomic state. It was set up multiple times, so I kept wondering what it would 'reveal'. A new understanding of time and space; sounded like a perfect way to broadcast or foreshadow something ominous. Instead, Scott just went in, had an acid trip, then went out again. 5/10. Watchable, but among the worst two MCU movies to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxom 1974 Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 I'm one of those rare individuals who thought Guardians was merely mediocre. Nothing nearly as special as people made it out to be. I think history will show that Ant-Man will hold up amongst the MVP movies better than Guardians when all is said and done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CyanidePie Posted July 21, 2015 Share Posted July 21, 2015 Yeah that's never going to be the case, haha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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