[Spoilers] Hizdahr

[ummester]

On a slightly different note, did anyone else think it was a little hypocritical of Dany to be all judgemental about watching men fight and die for sport when she was so obviously getting off on Daario's talk about killing people? I don't imagine that is what the writers were going for, but that's how it came across to me. Mind you, I find Show!Danaerys unbearable, so I'm biased.

I thought that hypocrisy was a deliberate inclusion on behalf of the show runners. It is an inherent part of her character in the books also, just presented differently.

As Estelindis mentioned, it shows how conflicted she is, in nature and action.

I find show Dany more likable than book Dany but think that the basic character exists the same in both versions.

[Nictarion]

Daario as the Harpy makes no sense!!! Why wouldn't he have just slit Dany's throat while she was completely unguarded and vulnerable when they were in bed together??

The theories I see on this forum really are priceless. :lol:

[UnViserion]

The "sons of the harpy" were freed men.

Book it!

[SerGuppy]

Daario as the Harpy makes no sense!!! Why wouldn't he have just slit Dany's throat while she was completely unguarded and vulnerable when they were in bed together??

The theories I see on this forum really are priceless. :lol:

If I were Daario, and I wanted power, I would not want to kill Dany directly, as it would be better to be regarded by the populace as an ally of hers. I would want to arrange it so that it looks like I am defending her, all the while conveniently all her allies die (who could oppose me after she eventually does bite the dust). I would want to be in a position where I replace her police force bit by bit, where I have direct influence over her, where I can at the same time eliminate the traditional ruling structure within the city. So that when, despite my "best" efforts to protect her, she does get killed, there is nobody left to oppose me. Bang, I go from being a sellsword to the owner of a city.

[Drogonthedread]

the suspicious look on darrio when Hizadr tries to take dany away and surprise look when he gets stabbed says everything about Darrio not being in the league with Harpies

Daenerys Question to hizdar have you ever fight in the pits and killed anyone who tried to kill you what says everything about what she thinks and wants ..

she is not against the violence ...she is against those who do it for entertainment sake ...

children thrown into pits eaten by bears ., Dwarfs thrown into pit to be eaten by lions ..is this what entertainment

easy to say its their culture until unless you were being in front of a bear or lion to be eaten

if daenerys comes back and bring the city to dirt i will be happy ..that way there will be a new way of life and prospect for the people to come in future

[HouseHarrison]

Just to summarize, in the show Hizdhar:

-Is forced to sacrifice his own father for his own life

-Held in a dungeon

-Forced into a marriage with Danaerys where she never stops to mock and dehumanize him at every turn

-Gives his life while saving his queen

Truly the unsung hero of D&D's HBO's Game of Thrones^TM

[Hos the Hostage]

Daenerys Question to hizdar have you ever fight in the pits and killed anyone who tried to kill you what says everything about what she thinks and wants ..

I felt like that dialogue was a nod to Tyrion. They showed Tyrion's face when Hizdahr spoke about big men winning over small men. Then Dany says this line and there is an exchange of glances between her and Tyrion, for one fleeting moment. Maybe I imagined it, but Dany knows Tyrion killed his father who was trying to get him killed. And Tyrion helped her in return moments later by saving her from replying to Hizdahr's very valid question. Despite making a sound point against Dany's actions, Hizdahr got compared to imbeciles. And there is that look again, and Dany almost smiles, before her attention turns to Jorah.

[ShadowKitteh]

I thought that hypocrisy was a deliberate inclusion on behalf of the show runners. It is an inherent part of her character in the books also, just presented differently.

As Estelindis mentioned, it shows how conflicted she is, in nature and action.

I find show Dany more likable than book Dany but think that the basic character exists the same in both versions.

:agree:

[Nictarion]

If I were Daario, and I wanted power, I would not want to kill Dany directly, as it would be better to be regarded by the populace as an ally of hers. I would want to arrange it so that it looks like I am defending her, all the while conveniently all her allies die (who could oppose me after she eventually does bite the dust). I would want to be in a position where I replace her police force bit by bit, where I have direct influence over her, where I can at the same time eliminate the traditional ruling structure within the city. So that when, despite my "best" efforts to protect her, she does get killed, there is nobody left to oppose me. Bang, I go from being a sellsword to the owner of a city.

The Masters would never accept a former slave as the owner of their city. Daario's key to power is Dany.

[ummester]

if daenerys comes back and bring the city to dirt i will be happy ..that way there will be a new way of life and prospect for the people to come in future

You can think the same thing for Westeros, with the Others in place of Dany, also. The sooner Westeros is frozen to death the better.

Book Tyrion even ponders the difference between being a slave in Essos and being a commoner in Westeros - the master/servant relationship exists in both places.

People get fed to bears in Westeros, also.

That is what is so funny about Dany (and now show Tyrion) with their ideals. Slavery is bad, because of the word slavery. As if the only thing that can truly take away a human's freedom is a word? At least book Tyrion, as hateful a character as he became, pondered the difference.

How different is scaring simple people into obeying your command agreeing with you, with great big scary, flying flamethrowers, then putting a collar on them, or even calling them small folk and telling them to get the crops in before Winter?

[SerGuppy]

The Masters would never accept a former slave as the owner of their city. Daario's key to power is Dany.

And who is always pushing for the Masters to be executed? Because the Masters would never accept someone like him as a ruler, he has to frame the Masters as the enemy of the people/Dany. He would have a huge interest in fomenting unrest, of not letting the masters and Dany find a working compromise. Again, if he wanted power, what other, better path would he have other than playing both sides against each other?

I also don't quite believe he is behind the Harpy, mostly because there would be some stylistic issues with how he was shown to react. I am just saying it would make sense, purely plot-wise, and he is a good candidate for a whodunnit mystery. That this mystery is not resolved does not speak against the show, in my opinion, but for it. I am enjoying it.

Also, yeah Hizdahr is one of the most misunderstood characters and emblematic of why Dany is not yet fit to rule. I loved how they showed her still thinking on a schoolgirl level at times, which is only fitting, as she is still a very young girl. I am ok with her being incompetent at the moment. If I had been asked to rule a city in my teens, and I did not grow up with a psychopathic brother as my only teacher.

[C.T. Phipps]

His line about "checking on things" certainly sent up a red flag big enough that I was surprised when he was stabbed. I still don't even get what's up with the Harpies on the show. They killed more random people in the stands than they did Dany's soldiers. I thought they were supposed to be rallying the people against her.

I'm confused by the assumption the Harpies have popular support. They have the support of one group in the city, not all of them, even if Daeny did turn a lot of them against her.

[Sopranos With Swords]

He works on Dany's behalf to re-abolish slavery in Yunkai, and the one concession that he brings back for her approval involves free men fighting in the pits.

You say that, but look at Jorah/Tyrions experience being sold at auction to fight - I think the evidence suggests not everyone fighting is entirely free.

[Lord Freypie]

I liked show Hizdahr. He made some valid points and could hold his own debating with Tyrion. He made Dany look really stupid, narrow minded and spoiled at times and showed her up for who she is. It's a pity they got rid of his character.

:agree: he was the only element of subtility in their whole Mereen depiction.

Out of that I think Harpy=Daario, if there is an harpy to be revealed in the show (not sure), Daario having probably been merged with the Shavepate who I think is the real harpy in the books.

[DemiNymph]

You say that, but look at Jorah/Tyrions experience being sold at auction to fight - I think the evidence suggests not everyone fighting is entirely free.

There are always ways around it. Going off on a tangent, even in modern times in modern democratic cities, you hear of interns and maids who are treated like servants and slaves which happens especially to migrant workers.

[RSasoiaf]

Well....

I think the point is way more clear then all the conspiracy theories.

From my view its like this:

. She thought it was a good idea to marry a local guy, that it would give her a grasp over them.

. He went with it because he had no other chance. He had nothing to give her and he could do nothing about the whole situtation.

. What looks like is that "the people" gor mad at him also for marrying with her. I would say he got killed because he was seen as working with the conquering regime....and just that.

. What it looks like is that "The Harpys" are a fanatic force which will kill also their own people if they are not working with them. This can also explain their random killings at the arena.

At least for me, this is what makes more sense.

And nothing in the series so far seems to support any further conspiracy theories.

[The Dorne Ultimatum]

I don't think there is a "The Harpy" in the show. Early in the season we are very deliberately shown the bringing down of the Harpy statue atop the great pyramid - this represents the customs and traditions of old Meereen. The "Sons of the Harpy", therefore, are the sons of the senior families of this "old Meereen" and nothing more. I think the show has gotten rid of the idea of there being a ringleader.

[Estelindis]

Book Tyrion even ponders the difference between being a slave in Essos and being a commoner in Westeros - the master/servant relationship exists in both places.

Exactly. We have a prime example of how awful Westerosi commoners' lives can be, when we hear Roose Bolton's story of how Ramsay was conceived. Why did those commoners even need Ramsay's permission to marry, if they were free? And their "punishment" of murder and rape is horrendous. By contrast, we do have some people who had good experiences as slaves, such as the elderly ex-tutor who asks Dany for permission to go back to his old life.

People aren't automatically safe and happy just because they're not slaves. Clearly abolishing slavery has improved the lives of hundreds of thousands of people in Slavers' Bay, but it's far from the only thing needed. I don't think Dany really wants to face up to that. She prefers to think of the task as simpler than it is, because then she could fix things quickly before moving on.

You say that, but look at Jorah/Tyrions experience being sold at auction to fight - I think the evidence suggests not everyone fighting is entirely free.

As DemiNymph said, there are always ways around this if someone is determined to break the law. That said, we don't see much evidence that Dany is working hard to enforce that law. Are there checks at the fighting pits to make sure that everyone is free? No evidence of that at all.

Hizdahr negotiated the re-abolition of slavery in Yunkai, but he's no longer in a position of power, just of some influence. He's not the one who could exert force to make sure that people comply with the law, only influence to make sure that the law is changed back.

[RedViperHD]

D&D won't care. The Harpies are just a terrorist organization of super ninjas murdering random people. That's all you need to know!

I've always assumed that they are a group of "elite" people from Meereen; both former slave master and super rich that resent Dany's rule because it weakend the amount of money and power they had in the city. A sort of violent "country club" or secret society. At least that's what you gather from the show version. That whole scene starts out with Hizdahr saying "I was just making sure that things are in order." That's a pretty ominous line to start that scene. My bet is that somehow his death was staged.

[RedViperHD]

Also, if the show wanted us to like or have any sympathy for Hizdahr then it would not have us all chuckle when Tyrion comments that his father would have liked him. Daario has been strange all season. If he is the Harpy then maybe his plans were sidetracked when Jorah showed up unexpectedly? Maybe that explains all the strange looks that he gave Jorah? I don't think that Daario is going to make it with Team Dany to Westeros, just doesn't make sense, so I do believe his time is up soon. That being said, why didn't he just slit her throat while she was sleeping or at any other point when it would have been easy to?