The King in Black Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 Actually, even Fukunaga couldn't save this season. The first time around, the point was that only Rust babbled pseudo intellectual, pseudo philosophical nonsense. Here everyone got their share of bloated dialogues, resulting in Colin Farrell's anti bullying PSA sounding like the best written moment of the show. Colin Farrell, by the way, has now considerably climbed higher in my rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted August 11, 2015 Share Posted August 11, 2015 have just read like 4 articles basically saying pizzalotto plagiarized pretty much all of rust's ''iconic lines'' (the other articles are included in this one) someone may have already linked this but not sure Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 have just read like 4 articles basically saying pizzalotto plagiarized pretty much all of rust's ''iconic lines'' (the other articles are included in this one) someone may have already linked this but not sure That's pretty old news by now. I think season one wasn't even done yet when those claims came to the surface for the first time. That's why I made a joke about Ligotti and Robert W. Chambers being the MVP's of season one (next to Fukunaga and the two leads) in a previous post. Pizzolato royally ripped both of those writers off. And as the article shows, other writers as well. What I find particularly interesting is how it really shows how little of the greatness of TD was created directly by Pizzolato. I think everyone here agrees that episodes 1-4 of the first season were the best part of TD and some of the finest content to be put on TV in a very long time. Aside from the great performances in those four episodes, everyone is always raving about the directing (Fukunaga and e.g. his incredible tracking shot), the references to the King in Yellow (rip-off from Chambers) and the dialogue of Rust (which Pizzolato plagiarized from Ligotti). In fact I'd say that most of Pizzolato's direct influence is found in the lame happy ending, the disappointing rap-up of the central mystery and the fact that all the King in Yellow references were baseless. You know, the things a lot of people hated. He must have felt really clever last year, but I don't think he's very happy now :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I thought it might be old news but disappointing all the same especially as the examples provided were especially damning Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DraculaAD1972 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 This Ligotti stuff is nonsense. That dialogue was well chosen by Pizzolatto. These attempts to prove plaigarism are misguided. Adapting Ligotti's philosophy into Rust Cohle's personality was a genius idea, one of many from this wonderful writer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Warg Arry Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If I'm being honest. I was disappointed with how the first season wrapped up. The mystery and implications made and threaded through out. All came out very basic. I felt tricked. The show told me I needed to put in effort myself. I did and I admit it was fun. Until it all meant nothing. This season. (I was jaded already.) Invited to do the same this year. With the birds head. Cult. Background props. The opening credits etc. And I knew it would be pointless to pick up those threads and tie together lies. But I didn't realise that the act of enduring 8 episodes of convoluted bulky mess. For the answer to be barely connected to anything else we were forced to consider. And completely looked at and solved in at most 15 minutes of the entire 8 - 9 hours of it. Would make this entire season mean nothing. But angry disappointment. Don't promise me a tray of chocolate brownies and serve me nutty poo. Sure there's nuts in there, but it's still poo and poop covered nuts. Oh look a piece of corn. It all means nothing and is gross, not interesting! I was barely interested in watching season 2. There were moments I enjoyed. But mostly, the more I think about it. The more peeved I get. It's been a couple of days and I can't remember why we were supposed to care about the blue diamonds. Who ended up with them? Whatever. I won't be watching if there is a S3. Unless it gets mass praise and an ending that satisfies. Even then, it might be something I wait til it's over and binge it when I have absolutely nothing better to do and I am desperate for something to watch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 If I'm being honest. I was disappointed with how the first season wrapped up. The mystery and implications made and threaded through out. All came out very basic. I felt tricked. The show told me I needed to put in effort myself. I did and I admit it was fun. Until it all meant nothing. This season. (I was jaded already.) Invited to do the same this year. With the birds head. Cult. Background props. The opening credits etc. And I knew it would be pointless to pick up those threads and tie together lies. But I didn't realise that the act of enduring 8 episodes of convoluted bulky mess. For the answer to be barely connected to anything else we were forced to consider. And completely looked at and solved in at most 15 minutes of the entire 8 - 9 hours of it. Would make this entire season mean nothing. But angry disappointment. Don't promise me a tray of chocolate brownies and serve me nutty poo. Sure there's nuts in there, but it's still poo and poop covered nuts. Oh look a piece of corn. It all means nothing and is gross, not interesting! I was barely interested in watching season 2. There were moments I enjoyed. But mostly, the more I think about it. The more peeved I get. It's been a couple of days and I can't remember why we were supposed to care about the blue diamonds. Who ended up with them? Whatever. I won't be watching if there is a S3. Unless it gets mass praise and an ending that satisfies. Even then, it might be something I wait til it's over and binge it when I have absolutely nothing better to do and I am desperate for something to watch. I'm releived I didn't bother trying to work out what the hell was going on either. I certainly wasn't going to waste my time reading digests of the plot online when the reason I don't know what's going on is because the story is convoluted. I know in the first season Nic admitted that there wasn't a mystery and the focus was on the characters. This time around he escalated things so that there wasn't a plot and just the characters, none of which were so amazing it blinded me to the other flaws. I think the european crime shows (eg the bridge, killing and even British ones like Broadchurch and the Missing) are shows where there is a mystery to solve. it's my fault for thinking "detective" implies the same thing - it's not like the creators ever sold it as such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 This Ligotti stuff is nonsense. That dialogue was well chosen by Pizzolatto. These attempts to prove plaigarism are misguided. Adapting Ligotti's philosophy into Rust Cohle's personality was a genius idea, one of many from this wonderful writer. it's just a bit fishy he only ever mentioned ligotti as an influence when accused of plagiarizing him. ive never read ligotti but really like the way he writes that ive seen so think i might have to find some of his work to read. i can totally understand having the same idea as another writer and not even knowing it but like...so many of rust's lines look like theyre taken straight from another writer... none of this makes me enjoy season 1 less though, i loved that season of television and really need a rewatch soon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 it's just a bit fishy he only ever mentioned ligotti as an influence when accused of plagiarizing him. ive never read ligotti but really like the way he writes that ive seen so think i might have to find some of his work to read. i can totally understand having the same idea as another writer and not even knowing it but like...so many of rust's lines look like theyre taken straight from another writer... none of this makes me enjoy season 1 less though, i loved that season of television and really need a rewatch soon If he'd just said Rust was a guy spouting Ligotti that'd be fine too. Although I still think most of Rust's dialogue is brilliant nonsense rather than gifted material. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Monkey Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Pretty decent ending actually. I liked that the villians sort of won. 6/10 for the season overall. Watchable, but nothing more. Can someone explain to me how Frank got hold of the diamonds? I must've missed it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Howdyphillip Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Pretty decent ending actually. I liked that the villians sort of won. 6/10 for the season overall. Watchable, but nothing more. Can someone explain to me how Frank got hold of the diamonds? I must've missed it. They weren't the original blue diamonds from the 1992 heist. He met with the jewelers and converted his cash to diamonds in the episode. He set that transaction up in the previous episode when he was making his escape plans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 it's just a bit fishy he only ever mentioned ligotti as an influence when accused of plagiarizing him. ive never read ligotti but really like the way he writes that ive seen so think i might have to find some of his work to read. i can totally understand having the same idea as another writer and not even knowing it but like...so many of rust's lines look like theyre taken straight from another writer... none of this makes me enjoy season 1 less though, i loved that season of television and really need a rewatch soon I think the point that it's not a student essay is fair. If Rust had quoted Shakespeare without doing the whole "look into the camera and smugly name your source" thing most people wouldn't be perturbed. I feel like a lot of this shit builds on itself. I was skimming an article and it points out a supposedly lifted Watchment quote. I don't think this would have really been an issue if we weren't already primed with the Ligotti controversy. And it's not like it's just Ligotti's view. I dunno, I wasn't really strongly in favor of him when it first broke but I feel weird about the boiling away of any positive effect the creator of a show had on the final product. The good lines in Season 1 were the actors and Ligotti, the good story was the director, and Pizzolatto is just the cheerleader that got credit for being the coach. It just...feels weird. This is just offensive to the McConaissance. And fuck whoever wrote that piece in VF. McConaughey broke away from his old image after Ghost of Girlfriend Past bombed in 2009. Between that and TD he acted in no less than ten projects. Including roles in Killer Joe, DBC, the Lincoln Lawyer, Mud and tWoWS. All of which earned him major praise even before TD came out. This goes without saying though. You can't believe how often I saw this when the second season trailers were coming out. Pizzolatto didn't make McConaughey. He simply rode the wave. Casting Vince Vaughn always seemed a bit like ego and stunt-casting to maintain the narrative, and he seems to confirm it. Too bad he didn't do better with the writing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Yeah, being an EP on something can mean nothing at all - which I think was the case with regards to Fukunaga, McConaughey and Harrelson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astromech Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 @ Red Snow, The Missing was fantastic. I've read a second season has been commissioned, but haven't yet read about any date for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 it's just a bit fishy he only ever mentioned ligotti as an influence when accused of plagiarizing him. ive never read ligotti but really like the way he writes that ive seen so think i might have to find some of his work to read. i can totally understand having the same idea as another writer and not even knowing it but like...so many of rust's lines look like theyre taken straight from another writer... none of this makes me enjoy season 1 less though, i loved that season of television and really need a rewatch soon Pretty sure I recall him mentioning Ligotti, Laird Barron, and Weird writers in an early S1 interview. If anything was plagiarized it was the Black vs White stuff at the end which is just Alan Moore's Top 10 almost verbatim. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Pretty sure I recall him mentioning Ligotti, Laird Barron, and Weird writers in an early S1 interview. Yeah... That's the interview they mention in the article Theda linked. The one where the writer flat-out asked Pizzolato about the numerous Ligotti influences. He tried to weasel out, but when pressed he had to admit to the impact Ligotti had on Rust's worldview. That is one of two - count them two - interviews in the ongoing slushpile of interviews where he mentions Ligotti. There is nothing about Ligotti on the DVD-commentary or anything else official, which - when you look at the almost verbatim - ripping of of Ligotti's words is pretty damn revolting. I mean art will always reference art and I certainly don't feel like it should be held to the same degree of scrutiny as an academic work, but this was pretty damn blatant. And without owning up to it. If he had said that Ligotti was a big influence on Rust's worldview, instead of trying to pass that work of as his own, no one would have batted an eye. I mean, Ligotti's worldview was one of the biggest hits of that first season. He owed it to the man to give some major credit imo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 I thought there was an earlier interview but I guess that is probably the one. So how much of the script is just a rip of other people's works is the question I guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
red snow Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 @ Red Snow, The Missing was fantastic. I've read a second season has been commissioned, but haven't yet read about any date for it. It was BBC's equivalent of True Detective last year but with clues and things that came to fruition (except for the deliberate ambiguiuty of the ending). The actor who played the detective was excellent too. Another series is in the works although there is no airdate as yet. Hopefully it means they are waiting until they have a good script/concept developed as opposed to rushing. It will be anthology in the sense it was never conceived as more than a mini-series but given the success and the fact the BBC has to make money more than collect it these days it's wise to milk the name. I thought there was an earlier interview but I guess that is probably the one. So how much of the script is just a rip of other people's works is the question I guess. Alan Moore would probably only want credit so that he knows not to watch it! I am curious as how crediting works in TV. Is it buried in the "credits" at the end of the ep eg "dialogue inspired by x's work "Y" " ? It's not like they have to credit within the show itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alguien Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 In fact I'd say that most of Pizzolato's direct influence is found in the lame happy ending, the disappointing rap-up of the central mystery and the fact that all the King in Yellow references were baseless. You know, the things a lot of people hated. I feel like the resolution of season one is something people would have enjoyed more if the internet didn't exist. It lead the hive-mind down the rabbit hole into an echo chamber of outlandish theories. Anecdotally, I watched the series without any internet commentary after it had already finished, and speaking with other folks who'd done the same, we all felt the ending suited just fine. The hints at the supernatural stuff were obviously just seasoning--but the story was always going to be what the series said it was--a true detective story. ETA: also, I felt pretty proud of myself having guessed it was the lawnmower man early on. :cool4: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sci-2 Posted August 12, 2015 Share Posted August 12, 2015 Alan Moore would probably only want credit so that he knows not to watch it! I am curious as how crediting works in TV. Is it buried in the "credits" at the end of the ep eg "dialogue inspired by x's work "Y" " ? It's not like they have to credit within the show itself. Of course Alan Moore is happy to borrow from literature given League of Extraordinary Gentlemen so it's not clear he would have a problem with the dialogue being used at the end? Then again I'm not sure Moore has directly aped dialogue in the same manner? I'd be curious to see a historical examination of anti-natalist philosophy - just how original was Ligotti's prose? (Don't get me wrong, the man's a great writer but from what excerpts I've read ACatHR is kinda laughable in its melodrama.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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