Book ending vs show ending

[Lord Lannister]

I expect the overall endings will be similar in most respects. The journey to get there, will obviously be rather different.

[boojam]

10 hours ago, Dragon_Rider said:

Can the ending be really 'the same' when they get to it differently?  It's a blurry notion of 'sameness'.  Part of what makes a story's resolution is how it got there, so in a way it will never be 'the same', even if the characters end up in the same situation.

D&D and Martin have stated repeatedly that they are headed to the same conclusion, so there's no doubt that for the main characters they will end in the same situation (i.e., deaths, victories, titles/thrones). Given the path deviation, though, it may not feel the same.

It all depends on what you mean by 'get to it differently' . So far in the books and on the show the Big Ending is the confrontation with the Evil Power north of the wall. In the books that is The Others , on the show it is, I guess?, the Night King (unless there is a frozen Sauron behind him)..

The other implication both book wise and show wise it will have to be the use of the dragons at the final showdown.

At this point in time there may be fewer of the books characters there but in both the book's case and the show's case it's the same or very very similar Armageddon.

[Ser Gareth]

12 hours ago, Dragon_Rider said:

Can the ending be really 'the same' when they get to it differently?  It's a blurry notion of 'sameness'.  Part of what makes a story's resolution is how it got there, so in a way it will never be 'the same', even if the characters end up in the same situation.

D&D and Martin have stated repeatedly that they are headed to the same conclusion, so there's no doubt that for the main characters they will end in the same situation (i.e., deaths, victories, titles/thrones). Given the path deviation, though, it may not feel the same.

Yes it can be.  Take a parallel universe example of a soccer game being played.  Both games end up 2-0, with identical scorers.  The same player is sent off on the losing team, both teams miss a penalty each and its the same penalty taker on both occasions.  The difference is the games play out slightly differently in terms of corners, subs and what XI players end up on the field at the end.  But the major parts of the game, the outcome parts.....are the same.  Different game, same ending.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

So in my example of the eagle flys Frodo to mount doom to toss the ring, would you consider that the same ending or a different ending.

Becuase I would consider that a different ending.

[boojam]

8 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

So in my example of the eagle flys Frodo to mount doom to toss the ring, would you consider that the same ending or a different ending.

Becuase I would consider that a different ending.

You mean no Battle of Pelennor Fields ? One still need Sauron's attention diverted by the Battle of the Morannon?

One could have covered the War of the Ring in one book!

If one still had Pelennor and Morannon* , be kind of the same ending.

 

*I never noticed that Tolkien had those same 'key-bounce' names like George does!

 

[Le Cygne]

On 7/2/2016 at 4:23 PM, Stannis is the man....nis said:

It seems that we will end in the same place but how they get there will be entirely different. For example, both book and show Dany will sit on the IT while book Dany will fight Aegon for it, show Dany will fight the Lannisters for it. In both book and show, Jon will be named TKITN while show Jon got it for beating the Boltons, book Jon will get it in the fallout of Stannis' downfall.

Yeah, I think they will do exactly that. Same place, but different way of getting there.

[The Scabbard Of the Morning]

3 minutes ago, boojam said:

You mean no Battle of Pelennor Fields ? One still need Sauron's attention diverted by the Battle of the Morannon?

One could have covered the War of the Ring in one book!

If one still had Pelennor and Morannon* , be kind of the same ending.

 

*I never noticed that Tolkien had those same 'key-bounce' names like George does!

 

So what if there is no pelennor field, if all that matters is how it ends and not how one gets there then as long as the ring is destroyed and Sauron defeated it's all the same.

[TickTak7]

The show is on it's own now. 

While they are borrowing some big beats from the books (Shireen, Jon, Hodor), they are diverging in pretty big ways, and they have to. 

However, my guess is the way the show ends is going to be consistent with the show. 

Don't forget, D&D have known the way GRRM plans to end ASOIAF for a whlie now, so they will have used that knowledge when planning out their 8 seasons. 

How they arrive to that conclusion will be very different from the books, but the conclusions will be very similar. 

[boojam]

16 minutes ago, The Scabbard Of the Morning said:

So what if there is no pelennor field, if all that matters is how it ends and not how one gets there then as long as the ring is destroyed and Sauron defeated it's all the same.

Like I said if they had of done the bird drop that would probably been a short story!

(You think logically , I like that.)

[CrypticWeirwood]

45 minutes ago, boojam said:

You mean no Battle of Pelennor Fields ? One still need Sauron's attention diverted by the Battle of the Morannon?

One could have covered the War of the Ring in one book!

If one still had Pelennor and Morannon* , be kind of the same ending.

*I never noticed that Tolkien had those same 'key-bounce' names like George does!

Do you mean the double-N in Pelennor, Morannon, and Elessar? That’s similar to English words like beginner or Britannic: it was was how Tolkien indicated that the stress fell on the second syllable in those Sindarin words, not on the first syllable the way it does in Sindarin words like Elenor, Legolas, and Boromir. (There were other ways, like long vowels.)

I don’t recall similar examples with the doubled letters in Martin’s writings, but I would not be at all surprised if those did exist. After all, that’s one of the ways that we indicated a “short” vowel in English spelling, as in wining versus winning, or biting versus bitten.

Which words from A Song of Ice and Fire were you thinking of? Now you’ve got me curious.

[boojam]

26 minutes ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Do you mean the double-N in Pelennor, Morannon, and Elessar? That’s similar to English words like beginner or Britannic: it was was how Tolkien indicated that the stress fell on the second syllable in those Sindarin words, not on the first syllable the way it does in Sindarin words like Elenor, Legolas, and Boromir. (There were other ways, like long vowels.)

I don’t recall similar examples with the doubled letters in Martin’s writings, but I would not be at all surprised if those did exist. After all, that’s one of the ways that we indicated a “short” vowel in English spelling, as in wining versus winning, or biting versus bitten.

Which words from A Song of Ice and Fire were you thinking of? Now you’ve got me curious.

How about Stannis I Baratheon , just one example. Brienne ...

[CrypticWeirwood]

17 minutes ago, boojam said:

How about Stannis I Baratheon , just one example. Brienne ...

Stannis is just a respelling of the normal English word stannous for something that contains tin, from the Latin word for tin, stannum.

Brienne is just a feminine version of Brian, following the pattern seen Daniel/Danielle, Michael/Michelle, Adrian/Adrienne, and so on.

[boojam]

1 hour ago, CrypticWeirwood said:

Stannis is just a respelling of the normal English word stannous for something that contains tin, from the Latin word for tin, stannum.

Brienne is just a feminine version of Brian, following the pattern seen Daniel/Danielle, Michael/Michelle, Adrian/Adrienne, and so on.

And Meereen is....

[CrypticWeirwood]

20 minutes ago, boojam said:

And Meereen is....

Something whose phonological pattern is alien to English: you should not have an unreduced tense vowel in an unstressed syllable. 

That’s probably why the show doesn’t pronounce those two vowels the same but reduces the one in the first syllable to a lax vowel not the tense one it is written with and which occurs in the second syllable.

Otherwise it would have to be something that were still thought of as separate morphemes, as in a bee-tree.

[sj4iy]

The cliffnotes version of a book is still the same story with the same ending.  They aren't different stories just because of length.

[JonSnow4President]

5 hours ago, sj4iy said:

The cliffnotes version of a book is still the same story with the same ending.  They aren't different stories just because of length.

Length has nothing to do with it.  y=10x and y=x² may be the same at beginning and end if we start our journey from 0 to 10, but the journey is different in between.  I don't know how anyone can look at the North, Riverlands, Vale, Dorne, or Mereen and say they are a shortened version of the same story without lying through their teeth.  In the end, Bran might be KiTN in both, Jon King Beyond the Wall, and Dany Queen of the Iron Throne (I don't believe these, just throwing it out), but the actual story is how that comes to past.  

And given how they thought season 5 was accurate to the books, I don't know how close the ending really will be.  Are we talking very broad strokes for Jon, Dany, and Tyrion?  Are we talking Jon, Dany, Tyrion, Cersei, Jamie, Sam, Arya, Sansa, Theon, Asha, and Arianne having the same ending?  Are we talking merely in who rules what, or are we talking all aspects?  My money is that they're only looking at who rules/holds what, but I'm not exactly confident in D&D.

[The Fattest Leech]

6 hours ago, sj4iy said:

The cliffnotes version of a book is still the same story with the same ending.  They aren't different stories just because of length.

A woman stabs a man. The man dies. 

A woman fights to protect herself against a male attacker and she stabs him. The man dies. 

A woman hunts down a man and leaps on his back. He throws her to the ground but she scrambles back to her feet and stabs him. The man dies. 

... Same story? It has the same beginning and end. 

[Chib]

The ending will be somewhat similar I think. Maybe someone who die in the book will live in the show. But the majority of them will die anyway.

[Gaz0680]

36 minutes ago, Chib said:

The ending will be somewhat similar I think. Maybe someone who die in the book will live in the show. But the majority of them will die anyway.

Yes. We've already seen characters in the show who have died much sooner than they did in the books (or, are still alive in the books to now - Stannis and Ser Barristan being the best examples). 

I think the "how" and possibly even the "why" will vary as far as the fate of many characters goes, but I think the "what" should be fairly consistent. Because a book can have so many more characters of importance than a tv show, it is pretty common for tv/film adaptations of books to give a main character the "cooler" actions/achievements of one or sometimes many minor characters in the books.

For example, the what for Ser Barristan and Stannis in the show is that they are dead. In the books, they are alive but will certainly die because the what must remain consistent. Do I think Ser Barristans death in the books is going to be by way of outnumbered and killed in an alley by Sons of the Harpy like in the show? Hell no.

Will Stannis die by execution from Brienne in the books? Unlikely, but he certainly will die.

Will Jon Snow come back from the dead in the books? Yes, but it may not happen exactly the same way as the show did it.

It will be the same for end of the story. The main plot points, whatever they are, will be the same, but how they are achieved and the motivations behind them will differ. The books and the show essentially are telling different stories with nearly identical outcomes.

 

[Jedi Renee]

On 04/07/2016 at 1:00 PM, CrypticWeirwood said:

Martin’s letter said:

Five central characters will make it through all three volumes, however, growing from children to adults and changing the world and themselves in the process. In a sense, my trilogy is almost a generational saga, telling the life stories of these five characters, three men and two women. The five key players are Tyrion Lannister, Daenerys Targaryen, and three of the children of Winterfell, Arya, Bran, and the bastard Jon Snow. All of them are introduced at some length in the chapters you have to hand.

So Tyrion, Dany, Arya, Bran, and Jon. 

 

But that was long ago and far away, and Sansa’s role, her centrality if you would, has grown since then.

I'd be ok with these 5