Why did Balon declare war on the North

[TheDonAJ]

I understand he may have been angry at Ned for what happened in the Greyjoy rebellion, but, that can't be the main reason. At the time, both Ned and Robert were dead, so his anger towards Ned's son should have been just as strong as his anger towards Roberts "son". He saw the north as undefended, so took a stab at it- but really, during TWOFK most of the coast of Westeros was undefended, he could have got a lot more plunder, albeit at the cost of more ironborn casualties, in the far richer Westerlands, or fertile Reach. The North, doesn't have any claim to dominion over the Iron Islands, whereas the KotIT does, so, by attacking the North, Balon was bringing the Norths demise about quicker, and when the North was subdued, the Iron Throne would be able to turn their attention to the Iron Islands. I don't think Joffrey would have reversed his fathers victories against the ironborn by honouring any pact made between the Crown and the Greyjoys against the North, besides, shouldn't the Iron born pay the 'iron price' for their freedom, not have it granted to them by any King, Northern or otherwise.

 

Sorry about the long para, this just seems like a mistake on Balons' end. Then again, I'm not the most thorough reader.

[Makk]

I think it was just opportunistic pillaging. That is their way and when the South was victorious over the North, which is what he assumed, the South wouldn't care about what his men had stolen. It's even possible Tywin encouraged it.

[Canon Claude]

11 minutes ago, Makk said:

I think it was just opportunistic pillaging. That is their way and when the South was victorious over the North, which is what he assumed, the South wouldn't care about what his men had stolen. It's even possible Tywin encouraged it.

But the North was winning at that point. They were pillaging the Westerlands, Tywin was sitting in Harrenhal, and King's Landing was set to fall to either Renly or Stannis.

[lujo]

20 minutes ago, Makk said:

It's even possible Tywin encouraged it.

Anyone who's played the AGoT boardgame, knows that playing the Lanister practically requires you somehow talk the Greyjoy not to trounce you right away. However, this usually ends up with the rest of everybody ganging up on the Greyjoy imediately afterwards. Which also describes the first rebellion, so Balon would have been in the position to know this. If a Greyjoy wants to get something out of an all-out brawl, he needs a strong Lanister drawing everybody else's hate instead of the Greyjoy.

Apart from the obvious "because plot, dooooh", the reason might be that Robb was winning the war quite handily. If Robb wins the war, that's it, war's over. This means the north and riverlands are independent, and will not be busy elsewhere so no pillaging there. The rest of the kingdom is going to still include the Westerlands and is likely to come after Balon again.

Best he could do is hit the North to keep the war going and his foes busy tearing each other apart. Plus, if he hits the Lanisters and one of the Baratheon brothers wipes them, they might come after Balon, too, this way the Lanisters do all the actual fighting, he just sits back, grabs loot and key easily defensible positions and directs the flow of the war. Wasn't even a terrible move or a terrible plan, by all means, it's just that his endgame was a tad unclear.

[Boarsbane]

Just now, Canon Claude said:

But the North was winning at that point. They were pillaging the Westerlands, Tywin was sitting in Harrenhal, and King's Landing was set to fall to either Renly or Stannis.

No, Balon has been preparing long before Robb enters the West and the Westerlands have far better coastal defenses than the North, wealthier lords means stronger castles, and the Westerlands smaller size means it would be quicker for an army to gather and root him out. Also the West has a history of kicking the Ironborn's ass and sacking their island. Neither is a good idea for Balon to attack without allying with someone stronger than himself, but he does have a better chance of actually taking castles and gaining land in the North.

[Anthony Pirtle]

I got the impression that Balon had a particular dislike for Ned. Plus, if you're going to take one of the Seven Kingdoms, the North is the one it might be easiest to hold against southern ground troops.

[BricksAndSparrows]

22 minutes ago, Makk said:

I think it was just opportunistic pillaging. That is their way and when the South was victorious over the North, which is what he assumed, the South wouldn't care about what his men had stolen. It's even possible Tywin encouraged it.

Agreed. Balon referred to the North as being ripe for the picking...

[lujo]

It's not just that, Balon needed Lanisters to divert everybody to themselves, which they totally did. If Balon helped Robb kick their ass, they would've lost KL to Stannis or Renly and that would mean either the Tyrel or the Baratheon or both fleets would be promply coming over to kick Greyjoy ass again.

He played it perfectly, and if it wasn't for the Red Wedding what Euron is doing in TWOW (sacking a defenseless Reach) would've been a breeze for the Greyjoy's.

EDIT: Also, the Redwyne fleet was docked at the Arbor holding their d***s because of the hostages in KL. If he went after the Lanisters, you can bet that fleet would be knocking on his door very soon.

[dariopatke]

Because he is an idiot.

Want to be King- ally with Robb

Want be Lord wih better options to survive- attack Robb as Lord Balon Greyjoy and bend knee to whoever wins

He picked the stupidiest option by far because he hated Ned for taking his son not realising he was the best "parent". Imagine if Theon was sent to Dragonstone. He also seemed to forget both Stannis and Robert for defeating his fleet, killing his son, killing his wife's cousins and nearly killig his brother.

[MinotaurWarrior]

Because he really really hated Ned. Robert was equally to blame for killing his two eldest sons, but Ned was the one who was going to destroy Ironborn culture by placing a greenlander boy upon the seastone chair and fill his court with men dressed like whores, with clothes they bought instead of stealing, married to women they courted instead of raping.

Even ignoring Ned's plans for Theon, Ned just represents everything Balon despises. Here's what the Liddle says of his rule:

Quote

When there was a Stark in Winterfell, a maiden girl could walk the kingsroad in her name-day gown and still go unmolested, and travelers could find fire, bread, and salt at many an inn and holdfast.

Or, in other words, Eddard reduced the incidence of rape and promoted trade over brigandry. In Balon's twisted view, those are the worst things a lord can do. Presumably there are other aspects of the "Old Way" but the rape & pillaging is what seems to have been most important to Balon's faction (with Euron & co. adding CPR awareness)

[House Beaudreau]

DISCLAIMER: I really hate most Ironborn. 

Balon sucks, He dislikes his only living son for being raised by his enemy because of a stupid unprovoked rebellion that he started and lost because not only is he a terrible person (because most ironborn are) but he also doesn't have a good military mind either. 

If Balon was smart he would have done these things 

1. Bring Euron back from exile. He seems to be the only Greyjoy with some cunning and solid battle planning. Make Victarion and Aaron get over their shit, and keep your eyes on him, but prior to Euron's exile it doesn't seem like he had any reason to betray Balon.

2. Listen to Theon! Goddamn it! I really hate it when people say that Balon's plans were perfect and that the North was ripe for the taking. the north was not ripe for the taking. Theon's plan on the other hand is pretty awesome. Crown yourself king of the Iron Islands ally with another king, the King in the North. 

3. Sack Lannisport while Rob defeats Stafford Lannister in the field, and then both forces go and take Casterly Rock from the Lannisters.  Plenty of Rape and Plunder and all that stupid "old way" shit to be found in the West and pretty likely that Rob would be cool with that considering what the Riverlands suffered. 

4. By this time, Stannis will have lost the battle of Blackwater, and the Tyrell and Lannister would be a thing now. After Stannis' fleet burned no one could challenge the Iron born Fleet except the Redwyns which is gonna take at least half a year to mobilize if not more.

5. All you have to do now is wait........... a token Riverland force can stay behind and defend the Riverlands and the Northmen and the rest of the Riverlords chill in the West living off their stores for winter, on ground that gives them the advantage for when Tywin comes to take back his own lands which he surely would. 

6. the Lannisters get defeated which would open the door for the North/Riverland force to march on Kings Landing and finish the War and oust Joffery and Cersi. And the Iron born can go intercept the Redwyn fleet. If the Sack of Kinds Landing drags on you can go on to plunder the Reach. 

7. War over. Theon is Lord of Casterly Rock, Balon is King of Iron Islands, Tons of Lordship to Hand out around the West to Brothers and Allies in the Iron Islands and the Seastone Chair is richer and more powerful than since before the Conquest. Try not to get Burned to death by Dragons. 

God I hate Iron born, More than Thenns.               
  

[Floki of the Ironborn]

1 hour ago, House Beaudreau said:

DISCLAIMER: I really hate most Ironborn. 

Balon sucks, He dislikes his only living son for being raised by his enemy because of a stupid unprovoked rebellion that he started and lost because not only is he a terrible person (because most ironborn are) but he also doesn't have a good military mind either. 

If Balon was smart he would have done these things 

1. Bring Euron back from exile. He seems to be the only Greyjoy with some cunning and solid battle planning. Make Victarion and Aaron get over their shit, and keep your eyes on him, but prior to Euron's exile it doesn't seem like he had any reason to betray Balon.

2. Listen to Theon! Goddamn it! I really hate it when people say that Balon's plans were perfect and that the North was ripe for the taking. the north was not ripe for the taking. Theon's plan on the other hand is pretty awesome. Crown yourself king of the Iron Islands ally with another king, the King in the North. 

3. Sack Lannisport while Rob defeats Stafford Lannister in the field, and then both forces go and take Casterly Rock from the Lannisters.  Plenty of Rape and Plunder and all that stupid "old way" shit to be found in the West and pretty likely that Rob would be cool with that considering what the Riverlands suffered. 

4. By this time, Stannis will have lost the battle of Blackwater, and the Tyrell and Lannister would be a thing now. After Stannis' fleet burned no one could challenge the Iron born Fleet except the Redwyns which is gonna take at least half a year to mobilize if not more.

5. All you have to do now is wait........... a token Riverland force can stay behind and defend the Riverlands and the Northmen and the rest of the Riverlords chill in the West living off their stores for winter, on ground that gives them the advantage for when Tywin comes to take back his own lands which he surely would. 

6. the Lannisters get defeated which would open the door for the North/Riverland force to march on Kings Landing and finish the War and oust Joffery and Cersi. And the Iron born can go intercept the Redwyn fleet. If the Sack of Kinds Landing drags on you can go on to plunder the Reach. 

7. War over. Theon is Lord of Casterly Rock, Balon is King of Iron Islands, Tons of Lordship to Hand out around the West to Brothers and Allies in the Iron Islands and the Seastone Chair is richer and more powerful than since before the Conquest. Try not to get Burned to death by Dragons. 

God I hate Iron born, More than Thenns.               
  

Wow, you've really thought this through. The only problem is that the Tyrell army and the Lannister army combined would destroy the Riverlands in revenge for the assault upon the Westerlands. Then they'd come streaming west to fight. The only hope would then be to have Stannis or the Dornish attack King's Landing to end the reason for the Tyrell-Lannister alliance to exist.

[TheDonAJ]

25 minutes ago, Floki of the Ironborn said:

Wow, you've really thought this through. The only problem is that the Tyrell army and the Lannister army combined would destroy the Riverlands in revenge for the assault upon the Westerlands. Then they'd come streaming west to fight. The only hope would then be to have Stannis or the Dornish attack King's Landing to end the reason for the Tyrell-Lannister alliance to exist.

In the event of a Stark-Greyjoy alliance, wouldn't the Tyrells reconsider siding with the Lannisters? Especially if the iron born threatened to raid their defenceless lands.

[The Wolves]

1 hour ago, TheDonAJ said:

In the event of a Stark-Greyjoy alliance, wouldn't the Tyrells reconsider siding with the Lannisters? Especially if the iron born threatened to raid their defenceless lands.

No the Tyrells would still side with the Lannisters. 

Becuse Robb would not attack the Tyrells his beef was with the Lannisters. 

[LordPathera]

29 minutes ago, The Wolves said:

No the Tyrells would still side with the Lannisters. 

Becuse Robb would not attack the Tyrells his beef was with the Lannisters. 

The Tyrells only sided with the Lannisters because they saw a chance to join with the throne via Margaery.

However, if the Westerlands are steam-rolled and conquered between the Ironborn and North/Riverlanders, that deals a massive blow to the Lannister power-base. Enough to where siding with the Lannisters would be an even bigger risk and have less pay-off for the Reach.

Hell, the Tyrells may just stay neutral and let Tywin and Stannis duke it out over King's Landing, then bend the knee to the winner.

[lancerman]

Yeah I have to agree sacking the North was a dumb thing. They were literally the only other faction in the war that was interested in a divided Westeros post victory. Joffrey/Stannis/Renly were not going to stand for a divided kingdom. Whoever won that three way  was challenging the North, Riverlands, and Ironborn for the rest of the kingdom. They literally would have been trying to renconquer any land the Ironborn had taken.

[lujo]

How about this - precisely because The North was interested in a divided Westeros, if the North won the rest would come after Balon. Balon didn't want independence, he effectively has it, Balon wanted chaos and the rest of them killing each other for as long as possible. And The North was winning. If Lanisters sue for peace with the North, the conflict in the south plays out, the North stays out of it, and whoever wins in the south comes after the Ironborn.

What lands could the Ironborn realistically hold? Parts of the North, Parts of the Riverlands, Parths of the Westerlands and Parts of the Reach.

- Parts of the North they went for, they were easy to take, and with Moat Cailin taken, the Northmen would have a hard time taking them back.
- Parts of the Riverlands - Hey, if the North wins, they become the north.
- Parts of the Westerlands - The Northern armies were heading there anyway. And from the Iron Islands you can attack the West any time you like. Lanisters had to face Stannis and Renly, and if there's a chance the Lannisters take out Stannis you let them give it a shot. Stannis beat the crap out of Balon the last time around.
- Parts of the Reach - you want these guys heading for Kings Landing, and even if they win, they'll want a unified country so you can always ally with them vs. the North or the West. Also, you want them to deal with Stannis if possible.

So what could he do, really? Stannis was going to go for King's Landing, and you want to let whoever's there try to tackle him instead of you trying to tackle him. This also has the wonderful benefit of moving all the armies to the other side of the map. And you don't want the North to win, because a) they're the only ones not trying to mess Stannis up, and b ) the other guys you can negotiate to ally vs. the North.

What's everyone complaining about?

[TheDonAJ]

7 hours ago, lujo said:

How about this - precisely because The North was interested in a divided Westeros, if the North won the rest would come after Balon. Balon didn't want independence, he effectively has it, Balon wanted chaos and the rest of them killing each other for as long as possible. And The North was winning. If Lanisters sue for peace with the North, the conflict in the south plays out, the North stays out of it, and whoever wins in the south comes after the Ironborn.

What lands could the Ironborn realistically hold? Parts of the North, Parts of the Riverlands, Parths of the Westerlands and Parts of the Reach.

- Parts of the North they went for, they were easy to take, and with Moat Cailin taken, the Northmen would have a hard time taking them back.
- Parts of the Riverlands - Hey, if the North wins, they become the north.
- Parts of the Westerlands - The Northern armies were heading there anyway. And from the Iron Islands you can attack the West any time you like. Lanisters had to face Stannis and Renly, and if there's a chance the Lannisters take out Stannis you let them give it a shot. Stannis beat the crap out of Balon the last time around.
- Parts of the Reach - you want these guys heading for Kings Landing, and even if they win, they'll want a unified country so you can always ally with them vs. the North or the West. Also, you want them to deal with Stannis if possible.

So what could he do, really? Stannis was going to go for King's Landing, and you want to let whoever's there try to tackle him instead of you trying to tackle him. This also has the wonderful benefit of moving all the armies to the other side of the map. And you don't want the North to win, because a) they're the only ones not trying to mess Stannis up, and b ) the other guys you can negotiate to ally vs. the North.

What's everyone complaining about?

Wasn't Balon technically already at war with the Iron throne? Declaring himself a king should automatically pit him against whoever sat the iron throne, as they believe the Iron Islands are legally part of their realm. I think Tywin and the crown were lucky that Balon decided to annoy the North rather than fight an already existing war for independence against Joffrey.

[Free Northman Reborn]

A North-Riverlands-Ironborn alliance - with the Lord of the Vale related to both the Riverlands and the North - would pretty much mean the Tyrells could go screw themselves. Especially considering Dorne ain't their friends either.

Especially after the Lannisters had been defeated in the West.

Anyway, this has been rehashed any times. The real reason is because PLOT. Mitigated somewhat by the explanation that Balon did not have the confidence in a Young Robb that he had in the experienced Tywin Lannister. If it was Eddard in charge of the North he likely would have felt quite differently.

[GallowsKnight]

On 12/07/2016 at 9:27 AM, lujo said:

Anyone who's played the AGoT boardgame, knows that playing the Lanister practically requires you somehow talk the Greyjoy not to trounce you right away. However, this usually ends up with the rest of everybody ganging up on the Greyjoy imediately afterwards.

My own experiences of the game is if Lannister and Greyjoy fight neither has a chance to win. They bog each other down in such petty fighting for the whole time. Greyjoy can take but he can't hold well. But if the two unite they're quite a power block. I need to play this game again.