Maltaran

UK Politics - summer edition

286 posts in this topic

19 hours ago, SeanF said:

I have little knowledge of the law of Scotland, but in England and Wales, Tribunals of all kinds are very much part of the Court system.  So, I'd reject your rather conceited final assertion.

In all parts of the UK, the court system is one thing, and the tribunal system is another: parallel, separate and with different practices and procedures. The tribunal system exists precisely to be an alternative to the court system, in fact. Arguing that it's actually part of that system is like arguing that cars are part of the rail network.

At this point you are arguing with the facts, and in those cases I try not to get in the way of an argument that isn't really with me.

In any case, getting back to the topic, there's no evidence at all that fees deterred spurious cases, and in fact there is substantial evidence that they deterred employees from pursuing well-founded claims, which is why this judgement went the way it did. Logically, therefore, there's no reason to believe that being threatened with the prospect of having to pay your employers' legal costs if you are unsuccessful would have any different results.

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So new petrol and diesel cars are going to be banned by 2040, on the pollution side of things I'm in favour of this but on the practical side of things I don't know how they're going to get it done in terms of updating the national grid to cope with demand, not to mention the tech for electric cars is still a long way from where it needs to be to make it a viable alternative for a lot of people, I wonder if another concept like hydrogen will end up being used instead?.

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I dunno.

I first went on the internet 6th September 1998 in hotel in London. Nearly 19 years ago. I had friends who were laughed at in the mid nineties for starting jobs in the internet business as it "was a flash in the pan". 23 years from now, is a long time. Not only will the car industry fight to be industry leaders but insurance companies will be coercing people into chipped, safer electric cars, unable to speed or do anything interesting as it makes their lives easier and their profits bigger. I've already told my children they can forget the joys of driving a little bit too fast round a corner or putting the throttle down.

Hydrogen is the other option and is definitely one to look out for. Electric versus Hyrodrogen could be the VHS v Beta of the future.

 

 

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Posted (edited)

Hydrogen is the by far the better long term bet; but 20 years is way too soon for it.

Last time I looked into it, electric cars were no better than internal combustion over a life-span in environmental terms (though they do have fantastic PR there, as everyone ignores the impact of Lithium extraction, and the fossil fuels burned creating the electricity in the first place)

 

I'm still a huge fan of Biodiesel - specifically that created from algae rathan than grain/recycled chip oil. It remains to be seen whether the future ban kills biodiesel as an option or not.

 

I'm also surprised that they seem to be including hybrid cars as being banned - I would expect that to change by the time 2040 rolls around.

Edited by Which Tyler

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41 minutes ago, Which Tyler said:

Last time I looked into it, electric cars were no better than internal combustion over a life-span in environmental terms (though they do have fantastic PR there, as everyone ignores the impact of Lithium extraction, and the fossil fuels burned creating the electricity in the first place)

Presumably the idea is that by 2040 there won't be electricity generation from fossil fuels either, otherwise I agree it doesn't achieve much.

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Posted (edited)

9 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

I'm still a huge fan of Biodiesel - specifically that created from algae rathan than grain/recycled chip oil. It remains to be seen whether the future ban kills biodiesel as an option or not.

I am no expert in this, but isn't Bio Diesel still creating exhaust fumes? I mean the motor itself doesn't become any cleaner. And diesel engines are imho dead. At least with regards to cars.

9 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Hydrogen is the by far the better long term bet; but 20 years is way too soon for it.

Yes, that's my feeling, too. The process of generating and storing hydrogen seems to be the biggest issue, and it's apparently not that easy to solve.

9 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Last time I looked into it, electric cars were no better than internal combustion over a life-span in environmental terms (though they do have fantastic PR there, as everyone ignores the impact of Lithium extraction, and the fossil fuels burned creating the electricity in the first place)

But, George Clooney has a Tesla, so it has to be good. Nah, srsly. I think the main issue is, we just dump old batteries in India or somewhere in Africa, so it's no longer our problem.

 

Anyway. Now to something completely different.

Is anybody else thinking, that it looks like the UK will indeed crash out of the EU without any deal? It simply looks like Westminster and number 10 still have no idea what kinda deal they actually want. And the clock keeps on ticking mercilessly.

Edited by Notone

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Pathetic mini riot in Hackney last night. Over what? Fucking idiot was seen on camera swallowing the fucking drugs. How is that the police's fault. 

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13 hours ago, Which Tyler said:

Hydrogen is the by far the better long term bet; but 20 years is way too soon for it.

Last time I looked into it, electric cars were no better than internal combustion over a life-span in environmental terms (though they do have fantastic PR there, as everyone ignores the impact of Lithium extraction, and the fossil fuels burned creating the electricity in the first place)

 

I'm still a huge fan of Biodiesel - specifically that created from algae rathan than grain/recycled chip oil. It remains to be seen whether the future ban kills biodiesel as an option or not.

 

I'm also surprised that they seem to be including hybrid cars as being banned - I would expect that to change by the time 2040 rolls around.

To me it just feels like the government is trying to kick the problem of air pollution into the long grass. They're very unwilling to to start taxing older diesel cars more because it's going to be deeply unpopular and annoy a significant portion of the electorate.

When I changed my car earlier this year I'd not even consider a diesel, you've only got to look at the amount of crap that comes out of their exhausts to realise that can't be good to breathe in.

3 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Pathetic mini riot in Hackney last night. Over what? Fucking idiot was seen on camera swallowing the fucking drugs. How is that the police's fault. 

Fully agreed, it isn't, I really think drugs should be legalised, regulated and taxed, all prohibition seems to do is create an endless spiral of violence and crime.

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4 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Pathetic mini riot in Hackney last night. Over what? Fucking idiot was seen on camera swallowing the fucking drugs. How is that the police's fault. 

Sums it up really. Kid's who really have no idea what they are rioting about, and think of it all as a bit of a laugh.

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6 hours ago, BigFatCoward said:

Pathetic mini riot in Hackney last night. Over what? Fucking idiot was seen on camera swallowing the fucking drugs. How is that the police's fault. 

I get that you have a personal interest here, so this isn't meant as an attack or anything. But whatever the facts of this individual case, we can hardly pretend that it's taking place in a vacuum where young black teenagers have no reason to be suspicious or angry when one of their number dies following a police chase.

Maybe this wasn't the police's fault: but the atmosphere where it can be wrongly assumed to be, is something that the police service have undeniably contributed to.

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20 minutes ago, mormont said:

I get that you have a personal interest here, so this isn't meant as an attack or anything. But whatever the facts of this individual case, we can hardly pretend that it's taking place in a vacuum where young black teenagers have no reason to be suspicious or angry when one of their number dies following a police chase.

Maybe this wasn't the police's fault: but the atmosphere where it can be wrongly assumed to be, is something that the police service have undeniably contributed to.

Yes the Duggan riots were wholly warranted for one. If we want to bring change to this country then we all need to start trashing the nearest JD Sports. We all have a right to the latest Nike Air Max's. 

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8 hours ago, Notone said:

I am no expert in this, but isn't Bio Diesel still creating exhaust fumes? I mean the motor itself doesn't become any cleaner. And diesel engines are imho dead. At least with regards to cars.[/quote]

Yes, that's my feeling. The process of generating and storing hydrogen seems to be the biggest issue, and it's apparently not that easy to solve.

But, George Clooney has a Tesla, so it has to be good. Nah, srsly. I think the main issue is, we just dump old batteries in India or somewhere in Africa, so it's no longer our problem.

 

Anyway. Now to something completely different.

Is anybody else thinking, that it looks like the UK will indeed crash out of the EU without any deal? It simply looks like Westminster and number 10 still have no idea what kinda deal they actually want. And the clock keeps on ticking mercilessly.

Yes biodeisel cars still produce exhaust fumes... which are far, far cleaner; especially if burning produced biodeisel rather than recycled chip-oil; and verging a genuinely clean burn it produced by algae farming (which can take place in inhospitable areas that can't produce anything else). With strict enough regulations, you could make biodiesel burn as cleanly as a bioethanol fireplace in my living room - it's just a matter of how expensive you want to make production. Biodiesel also regulates a neutral carbon cycle, as opposed to unlocking carbon that's been trapped for several millennia. So apart from being way better for passing pedestrians, it's a shit load better for the planet - all whilst requiring no new infrastructure whatsoever (just farms).

Hydrogen cells are basically chemical batteries - you out electricity into water to create hydrogen and oxygen; then burn the hydrogen with atmospheric oxygen to create water vapour. Hydrogen has this propensity for fairly dramatic combustion to - see an footage of the Hindeberg for an example of hydrogen storage gone wrong.

My understanding on Lithium is that it's not so much the decommissioning (far too valuable to let the Indians have it) it's he extraction in the first place - IIRC it's about the most environmentally harmful production process of any compound. Move past lithium and those concerns (probably and more-or-less) vanish.

 

 

The chances of leaving the EU with an actual deal were always slim to none - and that was back when we had a competent politician in charge; not a sound-bite merchant more interested in.... well, hiding than actually leading.

I firmly believe that we should have a second referendum after negotiations have concluded, with a likely question of No deal, or Scrap Brexit (or a slim possibility of really, really shit deal, or Scrap Brexit)

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On 28/07/2017 at 0:27 PM, Lord Sidious said:

So new petrol and diesel cars are going to be banned by 2040, on the pollution side of things I'm in favour of this but on the practical side of things I don't know how they're going to get it done in terms of updating the national grid to cope with demand, not to mention the tech for electric cars is still a long way from where it needs to be to make it a viable alternative for a lot of people, I wonder if another concept like hydrogen will end up being used instead?.

Germany - a major, considerably more populous, northern European nation with similar weather issues to us and far fewer resources in terms of shoreline - has made the switch to renewables on an absolutely massive scale in a relatively short period of time. If they can do it, we certainly can. Investment and corporate obstacles from a pro-oil lobby are the major problems in the UK in stopping that, not the will.

The tech for electrical cars is pretty much there, we just need to see if the next generation of batteries (which will be available imminently) work out and cleaner methods of constructing batteries (or, if they need to built that way, they need to last a long, long time). If they do, we're good to go in the early-to-mid 2020s, let alone 2040.

Hydrogen is more promising on a variety of levels, but the hydrogen extraction technology is not up to scratch at scale yet. I agree it looks better on a number of levels, but some of the major advantages (fuelling time, most notably) are things that the electric car manufacturers are tackling as well.

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17 hours ago, Werthead said:

Germany - a major, considerably more populous, northern European nation with similar weather issues to us and far fewer resources in terms of shoreline - has made the switch to renewables on an absolutely massive scale in a relatively short period of time. If they can do it, we certainly can. Investment and corporate obstacles from a pro-oil lobby are the major problems in the UK in stopping that, not the will.

The tech for electrical cars is pretty much there, we just need to see if the next generation of batteries (which will be available imminently) work out and cleaner methods of constructing batteries (or, if they need to built that way, they need to last a long, long time). If they do, we're good to go in the early-to-mid 2020s, let alone 2040.

Hydrogen is more promising on a variety of levels, but the hydrogen extraction technology is not up to scratch at scale yet. I agree it looks better on a number of levels, but some of the major advantages (fuelling time, most notably) are things that the electric car manufacturers are tackling as well.

The main obstacle with electric cars is range and charging time, I'm sure they will be able to extend capacity and hence range pretty quickly but charging time, I just can't see how they're going to make it comparable to filling your car up with petrol.

My main hope is that this gives mainstream car manufacturers the kick that's needed to start making electric or hydrogen cars mainstream models.

I'm pretty sure I read that the way a hydrogen powered car would work is much more similar to a petrol engine?, I don't know if older vechicles would be able to be converted?.

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50 minutes ago, Lord Sidious said:

The main obstacle with electric cars is range and charging time, I'm sure they will be able to extend capacity and hence range pretty quickly but charging time, I just can't see how they're going to make it comparable to filling your car up with petrol.

My main hope is that this gives mainstream car manufacturers the kick that's needed to start making electric or hydrogen cars mainstream models.

I'm pretty sure I read that the way a hydrogen powered car would work is much more similar to a petrol engine?, I don't know if older vechicles would be able to be converted?.

Charging times now are 30 minutes from a petrol station, or much longer from home but given you're probably charging overnight at home that's not so much of an issue. Those times will still come down.

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16 minutes ago, Werthead said:

Charging times now are 30 minutes from a petrol station, or much longer from home but given you're probably charging overnight at home that's not so much of an issue. Those times will still come down.

Don't the super fast chargers deplete the life of the battery faster?, I hope they get electric car tech nailed soon to be honest, as soon as they do I'd happily buy one.

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19 hours ago, Werthead said:

Germany - a major, considerably more populous, northern European nation with similar weather issues to us and far fewer resources in terms of shoreline - has made the switch to renewables on an absolutely massive scale in a relatively short period of time. If they can do it, we certainly can. 

Having all those French nuclear power stations to take up the slack when needed has made it a lot easier for Germany to do that.

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As someone who works for a major car company, and has been in receipt of information that I really shouldn’t of been allowed to know yet.   I can tell you that developments are being made and the future of green cars looks exciting, and might be available to be mass produced far sooner than you probably think.   And that’s all I can tell you on the subject without potentially loosing my job.

 

The biggest problem with electrics right now is charging them.    yes you can do a fast partial charge in a short time.  but to fully charge will take hours.      charging batteries makes a curved chart when compared to time.   the first 10% is very fast and takes minuets,  the last 90-100%  takes ages.   and a large proportion of the general public don't have a drive or garage they can put a charging unit in for overnight charging.   When there is mass infrastructure available to charge cars (and this has to be done with governmental support - possibly with a big investment from petrol companies for the on the go top ups - who lets face it have a big incentive to keep petrol / diesel cars on the road there are still massive hurdles to overcome)

for reference I don't consider Tesla to Mass produce electric cars.  the volume they make and sell right now a globally a year is what the company I work for make in one low volume engine for just the European market for 4 months.   Right now the market and demand for electric is not there.  Yes Tesla's cost £80,000  and we would be looking for cheaper cars more in line with the price we sell cars for now but the demand is not there because the infrastructure is not there.

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As people have mentioned, infrastructure can crop up very quickly. Twelve years ago broadband barely existed. Twenty years ago mobile phones were simply impossible to utilise in the way we do now. When the demand is there, the infrastructure will follow very, very quickly, and it's already on its way.

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On Sunday, July 30, 2017 at 9:21 AM, ljkeane said:

Having all those French nuclear power stations to take up the slack when needed has made it a lot easier for Germany to do that.

I once worked for a company that led North America in sealed window technology. We used to buy our production lines from Germany after they became obsolete there. I suspect the same holds true now for renewable energy production. 

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