US Politics: What's a couple hundred billion between friends?

[IamMe90]

Just now, Mexal said:

Maybe. He was pretty clear in what he said. He said "candidate Trump, not POTUS-Elect Trump". So we'll see. Lots more to come out. I don't really think we can actually know what Flynn knows until the shoes start dropping. I mean, Flynn was in pretty much every high level meeting with Trump, basically chose his own role and Trump tried to squash the investigation into him.

Plus, it sounds like the WH is a bit scared regardless of the crap Cobb is putting out. 

 

 

If nothing else, I'm glad this is a source of major concern/stress for the administration. Maybe the fucker will have a stroke. 

[IamMe90]

1 minute ago, Mexal said:

Flake is a coward. He'll cave. But even if he doesn't, they still have Collins, which to me is insane given what's actually in the bill (from what we understand) kills healthcare.

It's a tax bill, not a healthcare bill! It will be so much easier for her to play the optics favorably than voting for a full-on, explicit repeal of the ACA. 

[Dr. Pepper]

So, should I wait a couple of years to buy a house?  Prices are high right now, it's a sellers market.  How likely is it that housing prices will fall dramatically in 3-4 years due in part to the fallout from the tax plan?

[Sivin]

7 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

To be fair, the rest of the world is doing pretty well. Extreme poverty is at an all-time low, hunger is at a low, China is very, very serious about climate change and pollution and electric cars and spaceflight, Europe is doing pretty well. 

America is going down, but it may not be over for the species. Just Americans. 

First, I would sooner drink bleach than make such a bold claim as to suggest that 'the world' is doing well at all when over a billion souls live under the totalitarian yoke of Communist China. 

Second, Europe just seems to be behind the times at this point (I know, it looks like they're ahead but that's just the residual madness distorting your vision). The biggest country on Earth  is a blatant kleptocracy and it currently uses the ill-gotten natural gains of the largest landmass on our planet to squeeze surrounding nominally 'democratic' societies. 

Third, as America collapses under its own weight there will be a power vacuum that one has to assume will upset the general state of peace that has existed between most developed nations for the last seventy years. 

Fourth, and this is circling back to the first and second points, I would sooner personally be the executor of our species than see Man's birthright pursued by the sick facsimile of terrestrial potential that would be a totalitarian-led escape from our beautiful Earthly prison. 

If humanity is unwilling to realize the individual, let it drown in the toxic world it has spoiled. 

[Fez]

3 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Flake is a coward. He'll cave. But even if he doesn't, they still have Collins, which to me is insane given what's actually in the bill (from what we understand) kills healthcare.

I believe the thinking on the individual mandate repeal is that the White House is going to stop enforcing it anyway (probably using the precedent of the Obama Administration not enforcing the employer mandate for multiple years), so it doesn't matter if it's repealed. I think that's bad reasoning, but that's my understanding.

So Collins was only an issue on the tax stuff, and it sounds like she's drunk the kool-aid as much as every Republican except Corker about the deficit. She did have some substance concerns, wanting the bill a bit more middle-class focused, and she got some of them. AFAIK, she still hasn't announced where she stands. But if Flake stays on board and there's no extremely unexpected surprises from Moran, Lankford, Lee, or Rubio (he never did get that expanded child care tax credit he wanted so bad), it doesn't really matter how she votes.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

32 minutes ago, Maithanet said:

I don't see how Trump would be anything but emboldened.  He has every reason to feel bulletproof.  Even as disaster after disaster befalls his administration, it has no effect at all.  And it looks like he's about to get a huge tax cut and half the Obamacare repeal within the next couple of weeks. 

Maybe. There’s been some reporting and it’s posted below that this has the WH very nervous. It’s important to keep in mind that protecting Flynn is what kicked the Russia narrative in to high gear.

31 minutes ago, Kalbear said:

And even that is unlikely. The best case for the US is for Republicans to impeach him. That almost certainly won't happen. 

Unless there's a tape of Trump actively fucking someone against their will I don't think it'll do shit. We literally have a tape of Trump saying how he likes to commit sexual assault and how he gets away with it. We still have that. We could play that nonstop every day. 

I’d like to believe that you’re wrong here, but sadly, you’re probably not.

9 minutes ago, Mexal said:

Flake is a coward. He'll cave. But even if he doesn't, they still have Collins, which to me is insane given what's actually in the bill (from what we understand) kills healthcare.

Collins is looking the other way on the repeal on the individual mandate because she thinks it can be put back into place later on in the Alexander-Murray bill. I said a while back not to be surprised if Republicans play a bunch of games to make the numbers work for reconciliation and then go back and undo them.

[KingintheNorth4]

Flynn is singing like a bird, and I love the sound of the song that he's playing. 

[DMC]

48 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Collins is looking the other way on the repeal on the individual mandate because she thinks it can be put back into place later on in the Alexander-Murray bill.

Well, not exactly.  People forget that not only is the mandate basically the only aspect of Obamacare that remains unpopular, but virtually every Republican is and always has been against it on principle - including Collins.  What's either incredibly naive or disingenuous about the deal Collins has struck for her support is she wants the Alexander-Murray and Nelson bills passed to mitigate the effects of the mandate appeal - and she's touting Trump's assurances that he'll help make sure they pass the House (and then obviously sign them).  Even if Trump did want to do so (which, of course, he may well change his mind about 58 times before breakfast), it's entirely unlikely he has the ability and influence to convince the House GOP to pass the measures if they are otherwise inclined (which thus far appears to be the case).

Anyway, so the sequence of events in the Mueller investigation continue to be entirely predictable (Manafort indicted; Flynn indicted and flips) - outside of learning that Papa-don't-do-that exists and is cooperating.  That would suggest that Junior and Kush Kush are next in line on the chopping block.  Wondering if Mueller has any other WHO staffers in his crosshairs.

[denstorebog]

So, a couple of hours have passed, and today's news seems to have calmed down a bit. Am I right in understanding that Ross' report was probably off and that Flynn has implicated a high-up official (likely Kushner) and not Trump himself? And that this was post-election, but pre-inauguration, so the main potential crime brought out by this particular development would be Kushner trying to peddle policy while the Obama administration was still in effect?

EDIT: Okay, a "well-placed source", according to CNN, says it was ... K. T. McFarland? That seems a bit anticlimactic.

[Mlle. Zabzie]

1 hour ago, Morpheus said:

Republicans have gone from denying collusion to saying that collusion is not technically illegal, so no, I do not think they will move against Trump no matter what Mueller uncovers. It was discussed earlier about how they cover for his obstruction of justice with the ol "he's new to this world of politics" excuse. It would take high treason for them to act.

 

Nah - I'm not sure what high treason is anymore.

1 hour ago, WinterFox said:

 

Pretty sobering. Much as I depend on the truth of Man's unlimited reach, it would seem that our species' ambition is horrifyingly inadequate to handle the gift of sentience that was wasted on this small blue dot. Surrounded by opportunity and promise, the sons of the 'greatest generation' just decided to indulge in animalistic sedentry. 

 

Honestly, the baby boomers (i.e., my parents' generation) have always been a bunch of selfish pricks. They even claim credit for the 60s even though most of them were still in elementary school.  Eff that.

1 hour ago, Fez said:

Well, probably. Slight chance not though. It sounds like Flake agreed to vote yes for a promised fix to DACA that the White House is already walking back, if he realizes it and cares, he could switch again. Though its still not confirmed that Collins is actually a no.

 

I'm skeptical. President Pence or President Ryan would be thrilled to sign a tax bill, and do a better job of reigning in members and congress and trying to sell it to the public.

 

Well, that depends on what comes out of conference right? I'm sure rich Texans would love to keep the SALT property tax deduction that the House bill keeps.

Deal I heard is that SALT deduction is in.  I think it's pretty set.  Pass through deduction was also increased so that there is now a 10% difference between having a salary and/or working in a service business and owning a pass through business.  Let the shelter games begin.

1 hour ago, Dr. Pepper said:

So, should I wait a couple of years to buy a house?  Prices are high right now, it's a sellers market.  How likely is it that housing prices will fall dramatically in 3-4 years due in part to the fallout from the tax plan?

I expect prices in high property tax areas will drop 10-15% relatively rapidly.  Think the market correction will be fast.

[Fez]

I don't fully understand this, but it seems shady as fuck.

 

[Bonnot OG]

Anyone that still associates with Republicans at this point, you enable their bullshit and garbage polices and tax plans that they push through and kill people.
 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

46 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

Well, not exactly.  People forget that not only is the mandate basically the only aspect of Obamacare that remains unpopular, but virtually every Republican is and always has been against it on principle - including Collins.  What's either incredibly naive or disingenuous about the deal Collins has struck for her support is she wants the Alexander-Murray and Nelson bills passed to mitigate the effects of the mandate appeal - and she's touting Trump's assurances that he'll help make sure they pass the House (and then obviously sign them).  Even if Trump did want to do so (which, of course, he may well change his mind about 58 times before breakfast), it's entirely unlikely he has the ability and influence to convince the House GOP to pass the measures if they are otherwise inclined (which thus far appears to be the case).

Anyway, so the sequence of events in the Mueller investigation continue to be entirely predictable (Manafort indicted; Flynn indicted and flips) - outside of learning that Papa-don't-do-that exists and is cooperating.  That would suggest that Junior and Kush Kush are next in line on the chopping block.  Wondering if Mueller has any other WHO staffers in his crosshairs.

Thanks for the clarification. And yeah, I’m already predicting that Collins gets screwed over. Why would anyone trust Trump at this point?

[Morpheus]

22 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

So, a couple of hours have passed, and today's news seems to have calmed down a bit. Am I right in understanding that Ross' report was probably off and that Flynn has implicated a high-up official (likely Kushner) and not Trump himself? And that this was post-election, but pre-inauguration, so the main potential crime brought out by this particular development would be Kushner trying to peddle policy while the Obama administration was still in effect?

EDIT: Okay, a "well-placed source", according to CNN, says it was ... K. T. McFarland? That seems a bit anticlimactic.

I am still seeing speculation that it is Kushner.

Would MacFarland be a high enough figure to net this kind of deal?

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

This one’s for the ladies, but fellas, listen too:

https://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/dana-nessel-campaign-ad_us_5a1f1116e4b0d52b8dc25af9

[denstorebog]

3 minutes ago, Morpheus said:

I am still seeing speculation that it is Kushner.

Would MacFarland be a high enough figure to net this kind of deal?

Nevermind, I figured it out. I'm tuned into FOX, not CNN. It's something I do out of habit whenever a new shitstorm breaks for the administration. So yeah, Kushner is probably the legitimate speculation.

[S John]

2 hours ago, Mlle. Zabzie said:

*Rich as f*ck and live in Texas.  This is important.  

Damn, only halfway there.  

[DMC]

11 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Why would anyone trust Trump at this point?

Please take these types of questions to the religion thread.

[Mexal]

40 minutes ago, denstorebog said:

So, a couple of hours have passed, and today's news seems to have calmed down a bit. Am I right in understanding that Ross' report was probably off and that Flynn has implicated a high-up official (likely Kushner) and not Trump himself? And that this was post-election, but pre-inauguration, so the main potential crime brought out by this particular development would be Kushner trying to peddle policy while the Obama administration was still in effect?

EDIT: Okay, a "well-placed source", according to CNN, says it was ... K. T. McFarland? That seems a bit anticlimactic.

No, I don't think so. It's early. To assume the only thing to come out of Flynn flipping is a bit of information on one specific situation (Russia sanctions call) seems naive. I just don't see any way that Mueller allows Flynn to agree to a light plea deal to give them nothing that's really considered criminal and I highly doubt that they agreed to a deal to get KT McFarland. This is just beginning, not over.

In other news, this more or less explains regular order for this tax bill.

 

[Sivin]

21 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Thanks for the clarification. And yeah, I’m already predicting that Collins gets screwed over. Why would anyone trust Trump at this point?

Prolonged existence in a state of physical and moral disintegration.