Ser Reptitious

Man, what a bunch of fragile snowflakes Trump supporters are: https://www.theguardian.com/world/2019/dec/27/home-alone-2-trump-scene-cut-in-canada-angering-supporters

Thanks!

Fair enough. I don't live in Canada these days, so I don't get the level of detail you two have, although I do try to keep myself updated. It might move the Liberals left in the initial aftermath, but long-term my worry is that running just to the left of the Conservatives would become standard operating procedure, with any leader/policy proposal that today is in the middle ground between Liberals and the NDP would be branded as "far left" and "unelectable" by the self-styled moderates of that party (and the already conservative media will lap that up as "see, even within their own party they think this is too far left"). The party calculus will be "the more left-leaning people may grumble, but they have nowhere else to go, so let's not worry about them. Let's focus on winning over conservative-leaning voters instead." One can hope, but sadly I don't think it's likely.

Er, I disagree with that one. In the end, you would simply end up with a situation like we now have in the U.S., where you have a centre-right and a far right party. Look at how boldly Singh came out in support of clean drinking water for aboriginal communities and taxing the rich. The Liberals are already rather mealy-mouthed on such issues. Imagine how things go if there is no pressure from a party further to the left anymore...

No worries, I get where you are coming from. On the "deeply divided" thing, it's not that I actually see it that way, I was simply predicting what hard-core Conservative-types would end up saying.

What TrueMetis said. Also, climate change is a pretty major issue.

Prediction of Conservative people's reaction: 1. if they somehow win: some variation of "The people have spoken. Liberals/leftists need to accept it / get over it!" 2. if they lose: some variation of "Our nation is deeply divided, and the onus is on the liberals/leftists to reach out and listen to the people that did not vote for them!"

Does that also apply to Trump supporters? Because I never seem to see any articles from that side of the aisle exhorting them to listen and cultivate emphy towards Liberals/Democrats. It should go both ways, no?

...because they best embody what a ‘reluctant remainer’ is looking for?

As you said to DMC in a previous post, a lot of this is subjective. I am much more liberal/progressive than moderate, so I get where you are coming from. But personally I have been quite impressed with what I have seen of Mayor Pete and think he has great potential. But again, that is entirely subjective, and he definitely needs to deal with the issues you pointed out. He might make a good VP pick, though, come to think of it. Would give him a chance to become a bit more seasoned before taking another stab at the presidency, all the while staying in the public's eye. That's actually exactly what I was trying to convey, but I guess it didn't come across that way. So in short, what you said! Is anyone really surprised that he wants his puppet master back in the club? Let's just be glad he isn't pushing for North Korea (yet).

In terms of the pluses, his supreme court plan stands out, though. In terms of saving the U.S. democracy that is exactly the kind of 'tweak' that the system badly needs!

Obama was far too naive for far too long regarding Republican obstructionism. That was his biggest failing. Yet despite that, his presidency seems to be remember fondly by many (most?) Democrats, hence Biden trying to cash in on that sentiment. As @DMC pointed out, being inspirational doesn't necessarily require a specific set of policies. Buttigieg could be inspirational and moderate (as far as the Democratic spectrum goes) at the same time and probably excite young people in a similar vein as Obama. Thanks for the info. Buttigieg definitely needs to work on that, if he hopes to assemble an Obama-type coalition.

I'm actually wondering about the exact same things, so thanks for putting these questions out there. You are not alone!

Here's another thing to consider beyond even that: let's assume that Biden wins the primary and manages to defeat Trump. Then what? My prediction is that his presidency will be so uninspiring that the Republicans will come roaring back in the 2022 midterms (due to complete lack of enthusiam among the Democrat base), probably taking back the House and the Senate, making Biden in essence a lame duck (as in, can't get anything done at all) even before his first term expires. Then in 2024 a more polished Republican version of Trump comes along and defeats Biden. Or, "best" case scenario Biden manages to hang on because the economy is doing well enough at the time, and we have four more years of gridlock, after which the voters more than likely will crave "change", any change. And change would mean switching the party in charge of the presidency. All the while the planet burns...

Don't Americans overall loooooove their military and the people in it? If so, that should be an asset for Pete. I agree that he needs to work on winning over African-Americans, but at the same time I am completely baffled how Biden seems to get a pass from said community about him crowing over how well he worked with segregationists back in the day (and then doubled down on it). Well yeah, I certainly would hope, too, that nobody would vote for someone just because they tick a box. The overall package (policies, ideology, personality, etc.) should be what really counts. I was just mentioning it in passing because there is a sentiment among (some) Democrat voters that after every single president other than Obama having been a (usually older) straight white male, bringing a bit of diversity in would be a good thing (all other things being equal). Hmmm, that seems like an oversimplification to me (and I am very much a progressive). As far as I can tell, Buttigieg's political views seems along the lines of Obama, and young people certainly flocked to him. But yeah, I can see why someone drawn to Warren and Sanders might be lukewarm at best towards Buttigieg. But my thinking is more that if Biden (hopefully) and Harris lose steam then he should be able to pick up those voters. But I also feel that Buttigieg's 'moderatism' gets overstated. He strikes me as one of the few candidates that calls for fundamental structural change to make the U.S. democracy actually more democratic (i.e. reflective of the majority again). That seems a long way off Biden's "everything will be fine as long as we get rid of Trump" approach.