salmonsnake Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 :agree: Dany isn't "evil" in the books, but the show has been very soft on her, to keep her as the "audience favourite" I suppose (though in a less obvious way than they did with Tyrion), whereas Stannis has become one of the darker (and slightly villainous) characters. Perhaps by the end of the season all these will have been inverted. Plotlines point to it. Hoping for a large-scale betrayal of all the lulled senses and hushed subtexts. The world will be gray, as it indeed has always been.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ferocious Veldt Roarer Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Heh, would most Westerosi even notice the difference? Tywin, "Sacker of Cities" and burning down the Riverlands, Gregor Clegane harrying the Riverlands and wiping out entire families to the man, Robb Stark foraging in the Westerlands... cruel and capricious conquest is a way of life in Westeros and for 99% of the populace the only difference between being sacked by Daenerys, sacked by Tywin, sacked by Robb, or sacked by the Ironmen is the design on the banners that the soldiers are carrying.As rulers they are very different, but I don't think that there's a "nice"/"non-evil" way to make war in this setting. The closest we get is Stannis discouraging rape. You mean, the gelding? Stannis did nothing special there. Randyll Tarly did the same. And so did Dany, BTW. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aFeastForDragons Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 If you don't sack and pillage a city/battleground after a battle then your solders aren't going to fight very long for you. Its a part of war to revel in the spoils. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gneisenau Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 does TV Dany crufix all the slavers or does she does leave some of them alive ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Desmond Wine's Bane Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 does TV Dany crufix all the slavers or does she does leave some of them alive ? She crucifies 163 and leaves thousands of them alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belisarius09 Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Silly Senor, this wasn't evil. It was justice. No... it wasn't... There was no due process. Therefore it was not justice. Did the slavers deserve to be punished and have justice be brought down upon them? Yes, most certainly. But retribution is not justice. I'm a student of the law my friend, take my word on this one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 :agree: Personally I thought they nailed it. I read no further than this. :lol: Pun intended? ;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I just rewatched the scene. It was short but I wouldn't say "rushed." I mean, we see a nail go right through a hand. the music is dark. There is screaming. My sister hasn't read the books and she hated it. Likes Dany, but hates that she did it. I think it will have the intended effect (although in the books I'm pretty much of the opinion that this isn't a bad mark.) No... it wasn't... There was no due process. Therefore it was not justice. Eh that's iffy to me. There's really no due process at all in this world other than Tyrion's trial, and since we know he didn't do it that's not justice either. I don't remember Dany charting a constitution that says anything about due process or trials. She rules the city, she makes and enforces the laws, and she punished slavers for the deaths of children. It was justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Eh that's iffy to me. There's really no due process at all in this world other than Tyrion's trial, and since we know he didn't do it that's not justice either. I don't remember Dany charting a constitution that says anything about due process or trials. She rules the city, she makes and enforces the laws, and she punished slavers for the deaths of children. It was justice. The thing is in trials like Tyrion's at least there is some foundation for him being suspected, she just take 163 random people and punishes them. For all she knows the guy who came up with the idea is scott free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Metopheles Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 The thing is in trials like Tyrion's at least there is some foundation for him being suspected, she just take 163 random people and punishes them. For all she knows the guy who came up with the idea is scott free. Isn't it at least in the show exactly like Tyrion's trial? The slaves kinda picked them out, like Joffrey pointed at Tyrion. Neither might be guilty, but the victim(or probably the parents) chose the murderer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I just rewatched the scene. It was short but I wouldn't say "rushed." I mean, we see a nail go right through a hand. the music is dark. There is screaming. My sister hasn't read the books and she hated it. Likes Dany, but hates that she did it. I think it will have the intended effect (although in the books I'm pretty much of the opinion that this isn't a bad mark.) Eh that's iffy to me. There's really no due process at all in this world other than Tyrion's trial, and since we know he didn't do it that's not justice either. I don't remember Dany charting a constitution that says anything about due process or trials. She rules the city, she makes and enforces the laws, and she punished slavers for the deaths of children. It was justice. It was not justice. It would be no different than killing Bran Stark for something that Ramsay Bolton did...because hey, fuck it, they're both northerners and sons of lords...close enough. Killing random people without even trying to determine their involvement in a crime isn't justice, it is revenge and collective punishment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stormland's Fury Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Isn't it at least in the show exactly like Tyrion's trial? The slaves kinda picked them out, like Joffrey pointed at Tyrion. Neither might be guilty, but the victim(or probably the parents) chose the murderer. Yeah, but Joffrey (and Cersei) had actually very good reasons to suspect him. Dany just tells her soldiers to round up 163 slavers and crucify them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xanrn Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 Well best bet the guy who came up with the idea is probably Hizadrecuckholded. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonsnake Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 It was not justice. It would be no different than killing Bran Stark for something that Ramsay Bolton did...because hey, fuck it, they're both northerners and sons of lords...close enough. Killing random people without even trying to determine their involvement in a crime isn't justice, it is revenge and collective punishment. This is what sort of terrifies me about some of the opinions in the thread. How some people are considered interchangeable.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordStoneheart Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 It was not justice. It would be no different than killing Bran Stark for something that Ramsay Bolton did...because hey, fuck it, they're both northerners and sons of lords...close enough. Killing random people without even trying to determine their involvement in a crime isn't justice, it is revenge and collective punishment. They were slavers though, not just random people. And if they weren't they were Ghiscari. The world is better place with them gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
salmonsnake Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 That, coming from a contemporary real person, and not a fictional ancient person, wow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jarl the climber Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 If you don't sack and pillage a city/battleground after a battle then your solders aren't going to fight very long for you. Its a part of war to revel in the spoils. Well the Unsullied do not care about such things but yeah everyone else she has following her is a different story, sellswords, freedmen and rioting slaves. In the books she had to hang and geld some of her people to get things under control Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flores Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 I feel the point of the scene was just as much to establish Dany as a very emotional ruler, as it was to show her "evil moment" as OP calls it. In the previous episode Tywin was schooling Tommen on what makes a good king, and it wasn't a just king or someone who answers "injustice with justice", but one who listens to their advisers... And Dany doesn't really do that - in the show so far that is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 They were slavers though, not just random people. And if they weren't they were Ghiscari. The world is better place with them gone. Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were slavers, too. Holding slaves in a slave holding society is a very low threshold for being randomly killed if you ask me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El Guapo Posted April 29, 2014 Share Posted April 29, 2014 It was vengeance plain and simple and I must say I thoroughly enjoyed it both in the show and the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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