Moments of Foreshadowing 9

[tf13]

Any chance there's a connection that we see the King's Reception in Winterfell through the eyes of Jon?

ETA: The theme of "King" is prominent in that chapter, as well. Including two Kings (maybe 3) being present at the same time.

[Turin Turambar1]

Jon II AGOT

Something cold moved in her eyes. “I told you to leave,” she said. “We don’t want you here.”

Once that would have sent him running. Once that might even have made him cry. Now it only made him angry. He would be a Sworn Brother of the Night’s Watch soon, and face worse dangers than Catelyn Tully Stark.

Technically he did face a similar danger at CB the night that Jafer and Flowers woke up . ( Lady Stoneheart ) :devil:

[PrettyPig]

Also from Jon II AGOT:

Robb looked relieved. "Good." he smiled. "The next time I see you, you'll be all in black."

Jon forced himself to smile back. "It was always my color."

[Mrs.Grumpy]

“The skull is large enough, no doubt,” said the prince. “And we know that Oberyn wounded Gregor grievously. Every report we have had since claims that Clegane died slowly, in great pain.”

“Just as Father intended,” said Tyene. “Sisters, truly, I know the poison Father used. If his spear so much as broke the Mountain’s skin, Clegane is dead, I do not care how big he was. Doubt your little sister if you like, but never doubt our sire.”

Oberyn used magically enchanted manticore venom on Gregor. Amory Lorch was the one who stabbed Rhaenys half a hundred times. House Lorch has a manticore in their coar of arms. I think instead of a festering poison, Tyene might use the same manticore venom on the claws of the cat and a scratch might cause Tommen dying in great agony. Cersei might finish him with a mercy killing to prevent his agony.

Oh, you mean she will torture Tommen :OOOO

Btw, you are wrong. Manticore venom kills instantly, Oberyn thicked the venom by using alchemy and that's why Gregor died within weeks.

[assjfjgjsgjljljglgjfjsduar]

Also from Jon II AGOT:

I love that one. Indeed, Jon. *sips coffee* Indeed.

[bogdevil]

Also from Jon II AGOT:

shouldn't it be Red?

[Fire Eater]

"Ashes and cinders."
"Kings and dragons."

You are seeing cinders dancing in the updraft.

The dead will dance here this night.

In the dark the dead are dancing

The last quote is from Patchface, and the one before is from MMD when she "revives" Drogo from his fatal wounds. With cinders=dragons, and cinders dancing in the updraft, Jon may learn of his Targaryen heritage when he is "dead," and he will later be revived. Especially since Mel and Jon are talking about "snow" and AAR being reborn with dragons woken from stone, and amidst smoke and salt, like the meat lockers in the ice cells.

[J. Stargaryen]

shouldn't it be Red?

Nah. What's interesting the black/green dichotomy brought to light by TPatQ hints to us that the black side is the side of the rightful claimants. You can probably read that particular passage to be indicating that Jon was always the rightful claimant to the throne. Also, it connects to a passage about Jon's father.

They had come together at the ford of the Trident while the battle crashed around them, Robert with his warhammer and his great antlered helm, the Targaryen prince armored all in black. - AGoT, Eddard I

[Jon is also a Targaryen prince.]

Robb looked relieved. “Good.” He smiled. “The next time I see you, you’ll be all in black.”

Jon forced himself to smile back. “It was always my color. How long do you think it will be?” - AGoT, Jon II

Once GRRM gave us the green & black clue, it was clear he had been using the two colors in tandem throughout the series. Interestingly, Patchface has a prophecy of black, green, and blue fires: "Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

It's been discussed before, but I wonder if this doesn't hint at a 3-way dance of the dragons. But also, I posted some analysis recently where we get black and blue intertwined.

When the Knight of Flowers made his entrance, a murmur ran through the crowd, and he heard Sansa’s fervent whisper, “Oh, he’s so beautiful.” Ser Loras Tyrell was slender as a reed, dressed in a suit of fabulous silver armor polished to a blinding sheen and filigreed with twining black vines and tiny blue forget-me-nots. The commons realized in the same instant as Ned that the blue of the flowers came from sapphires; a gasp went up from a thousand throats. Across the boy’s shoulders his cloak hung heavy. It was woven of forget-me-nots, real ones, hundreds of fresh blooms sewn to a heavy woolen cape.

- AGoT, Eddard VII

Colors which can be tied to the ToJ.

He could hear her still at times. Promise me, she had cried, in a room that smelled of blood and roses. Promise me, Ned. The fever had taken her strength and her voice had been faint as a whisper, but when he gave her his word, the fear had gone out of his sister’s eyes. Ned remembered the way she had smiled then, how tightly her fingers had clutched his as she gave up her hold on life, the rose petals spilling from her palm, dead and black. - AGoT, Eddard I

A storm of rose petals blew across a blood-streaked sky, as blue as the eyes of death. - AGoT, Eddard X

[Prince of the North]

"Ashes and cinders."

"Kings and dragons."

You are seeing cinders dancing in the updraft.

The dead will dance here this night.

In the dark the dead are dancing

The last quote is from Patchface, and the one before is from MMD when she "revives" Drogo from his fatal wounds. With cinders=dragons, and cinders dancing in the updraft, Jon may learn of his Targaryen heritage when he is "dead," and he will later be revived. Especially since Mel and Jon are talking about "snow" and AAR being reborn with dragons woken from stone, and amidst smoke and salt, like the meat lockers in the ice cells.

Interesting. Ashes and cinders are yet another pairing of the colors grey and red - for whatever that's worth. Could that stanza of Ashes and cinders, kings and dragons be alluding to Jon? Stark color is grey and Targaryen color is red while, if R+L=J, Jon is a king and a dragon.

[Uldra I]

...

Once GRRM gave us the green & black clue, it was clear he had been using the two colors in tandem throughout the series. Interestingly, Patchface has a prophecy of black, green, and blue fires: "Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

...

Assuming black is Jon's color, is the blue Lyanna's roses? What is the green connected to?

[J. Stargaryen]

Assuming black is Jon's color, is the blue Lyanna's roses?

Well, I'm not 100% sure how this is meant to be sorted out. Ultimately, I do believe that Jon is the rightful claimant to the IT, at least from the Targaryen point of view. But, as I've noted in a few places, Jon appears to have strong symbolic ties to the color blue.

The blue roses, for starters. I do not quite agree with the most common interpretation that they represent Lyanna. Rather, I think they represent Jon himself, or the whole of R+L=J. For example, you have the moment when all the smiles died, which I believe symbolizes the conception of Jon. I've also taken a look at the other mentions of blue roses in the story here.

But then you also have sapphires, which seem to hint at secrets, lies and hidden identities. Which fits perfectly with the concept of R+L=J. There is also the Blue Fork of the Trident, where you can find a rather strong R+L=J metaphor in the form of the sepulcher of Tristifer IV Mudd. It's also the spot where Robb told Cat that he was going to legitimize Jon as a Stark, and name him his heir. The sepulcher is found at OldStones which, via the PtwP prophecy, also connects to Jon. (Jenny of Oldstones brought a woods witch to court, and she was the one who prophesied that tPtwP would come from the line of Aerys and Rhaella.)

So yeah, lots of strong symbolic ties between Jon and the color blue.

What is the green connected to?

In short, usurpers. When you see green & black references together, those seem to be hinting at intra-dynastic conflict for the IT; e.g., the Dance of the Dragons, which we get to read about in the novella: The Princess and Queen, or, the Blacks and the Greens. It's Princess Rhaenyra whose side is known as the Blacks, and Queen Alicent and Aegon II's party who are the Greens. Rhaenyra was the designated heir, but Alicent usurped the IT from her in favor of Aegon. In other words, between the two colors, the black side always seems to be the side of the rightful claimant.

In ACoK, we see plenty of green & black references together which culminates with the Battle of the Blackwater. Stannis Baratheon, the rightful Baratheon heir and claimant, sails up the Blackwater to do battle with the green-eyed usurpers, Cersei Lannister and her children. Tyrion uses wildfire to deal a big blow to Stannis, etc.

In my Emeralds thread, I point out how both literal and figurative (e.g., emerald green eyes) references to the green gems are almost always around usurpers in the story. Cersei and her children, as mentioned. But even during the parley between Stannis and Renly, who is attempting to usurp the IT for himself. There are more examples in the OP, and the discussion carries over into the black and green dichotomy.

[ArabellaVidal]

With this whole discussion of colours and something from the last thread:

Jon going from red to grey to black has been interpreted as his path from being Targaryen to Stark to LC of the NW.

Sansa's vision of the castles in the sky is reversed from black to grey to a thousand shades of rose and gold and crimson. This has been variously interpreted as saying something about either Margaery or Jon.

Why doesn't it hint at something for Sansa? She could be the one to unite the Starks and Tyrells with her own marriage to Willas. Though I don't know what to think about the black. It could be a reference to herself as the bastard Alayne Stone.

The variety of colours at the end could also indicate her being the founder of new lines, rose and gold and crimson. Not necessarily through procreation but through the formation of new, stronger alliances through her actions, if we go with the theory that she will be more likely to be the diplomat to beat all diplomats in the future rather than form a marriage alliance for herself.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Nah. What's interesting the black/green dichotomy brought to light by TPatQ hints to us that the black side is the side of the rightful claimants. You can probably read that particular passage to be indicating that Jon was always the rightful claimant to the throne. Also, it connects to a passage about Jon's father.

Once GRRM gave us the green & black clue, it was clear he had been using the two colors in tandem throughout the series. Interestingly, Patchface has a prophecy of black, green, and blue fires: "Under the sea, smoke rises in bubbles, and flames burn green and blue and black. I know, I know, oh, oh, oh."

It's been discussed before, but I wonder if this doesn't hint at a 3-way dance of the dragons. But also, I posted some analysis recently where we get black and blue intertwined.

- AGoT, Eddard VII

Colors which can be tied to the ToJ.

As exciting as a three-way "dance" might be on HBO ;) I think the dance we'll read about will just involve Aegon (green) and Daenerys (black). Jon may not yet realize his true identity or he might be a little to occupied saving the realm from grumpkins and snarks...

Three-headed Trios has that tower with three turrets. The first head devours the dying, and the reborn emerge from the third. I don't know what the middle head's supposed to do.

Arya II, Dance

[bogdevil]

Nah. What's interesting the black/green dichotomy brought to light by TPatQ hints to us that the black side is the side of the rightful claimants. You can probably read that particular passage to be indicating that Jon was always the rightful claimant to the throne. Also, it connects to a passage about Jon's father.

ok. i was going off of the Red=Targ, Black=Blackfyre

[tf13]

Assuming black is Jon's color, is the blue Lyanna's roses? What is the green connected to?

Could be a reference to (possibly) the only living person who can give a full story about the ToJ: Howland.

[Uldra I]

From Bran's dream, we can assume that Ned is waiting down there to tell Jon the truth of his heritage.

This quote comes from another thread from Fire Eater. I always thought that when Jon finally gets to follow his dreams and go down into the crypt, Ned's ghost would be waiting for him to tell him about R+L because he promised Jon to tell him who his mother was the next time he saw them. That was the last time they saw each other. I love this quote in the books because his secret about Jon and the way he has been treated have weighed heavily on Ned's conscience all Jon's life.

[Mithras]

I think it will be Jon who kills Ramsay in a second Battle of Long Lake with the Boltons sharing the fate of Raymun Redbeard and his sons and Jon playing the role of Artos Stark.

His fingers closed around the parchment. Would that they could crush Ramsay Bolton's throat as easily.

Clydas cleared his throat. "Will there be an answer?"

"Does my lord wish to answer?" the maester asked . . . Jaime rolled the parchment up again as tight as one hand would allow

I think Jon may get that wish with Ramsay. As we know Jaime will strangle with one hand the person who sent the summons, Cersei, about his sister's predicament. I think Jon will do the same to the one who sent the summons, Ramsay, about his "sister's" predicament. If Jon was able to lift Thorne off the ground with one hand in ASoS, imagine what he could do to the guy he believed abused and raped his sister.

“The fool figured a one-eyed man would be easier to cheat. Timett pinned his wrist to the table with a dagger and ripped out his throat barehanded. He has this trick where he stiffens his fingers—”

A fool tries to cheat while gambling with Timett, who had sacrificed one of his eyes as a Rite of Passage. I take the “hatching of a dragon” as a Rite of Passage, which is true at least in Egg’s “hatching” at Whitewalls. I think Dany’s “hatching” in the Dothraki Sea was also a Rite of Passage.

Anyway, Timett, who was reborn as a man after suffering a traumatic experience in his Rite of Passage, ripped the throat of the fool barehanded, using his trick where he stiffens his fingers.

Jon suffered a traumatic experience (stabbing) from which he will wake up as a hatched dragon and complete his Rite of Passage, which also reminds us the advice of Aemon to Egg and Jon alike (kill the boy and let he man born).

Jon reached for Longclaw, but his fingers had grown stiff and clumsy.

Following Ramsay’s letter, Jon’s fingers grew stiff. I think the same thing will happen when Jon fights Ramsay at the battle. Maybe he will drop his sword but since he will be a man grown (a dragon hatched) just like Timett, he will rip his throat barehanded with his stiff fingers.

[The Manderly]

In a Clash of Kings, when Roose is contemplating betraying the Starks, he decides to hunt for wolves and comes back with nine dead animals. Seven adults and two pups.

So far, we have seven adult Starks die in the course of the story.

1. Rickard

2. Brandon

3. Lyanna

4. Eddard

5. Robb [at 16, technically an adult in Westeros]

6. (Catelyn)

7. Benjen*

*I believe him to be dead, as Mormont's raven seems to confirm it when Mormont and Jon Snow discuss Benjen's fate. Assuming the raven is indeed warged by Bran or Bloodraven.

That leaves the pups. I think their death, foreshadows two more Starks to die; specifically the children. That could be either Sansa, Arya, Bran or Rickon, since none of them are of legal age.

Or the pups could simply refer to Lady and Grey Wind, both of which are dead.

[Lost Melnibonean]

Or the pups could simply refer to Lady and Grey Wind, both of which are dead.

I think Arya is just about a given. I don't see Bran dying as long as there's a steady supply of "paste." That leaves Rickon and Sansa. I believe Rickon's death was foreshadowed by Old Nan's partial telling of the tale of the Last Hero. I don't recall any foreshadowing of Sansa's death.

[ArabellaVidal]

Unless Lady's death is a foreshadowing of Sansa's, not that I really think it is.