Confessions from 2014

[Winter's Knight]

The problem, at least to me, with the whole 21st century ideals and stuff isn't about us but about the character.

For instance, let's take Robert, who I completely dislike.

He's accused of "raping" Cersei, and it's ok for us to not like what he did. But for Robert he's not doing wrong, he's not aware of a concept called "marital rape" because for him, being both a husband and a King, he's right about asking sex to his wife whenever he wants and it's her duty to please him and give him heirs. I can't say Robert is a bad person for doing THAT because in his culture, he's not wrong about having marital rights.

But, in his culture and set of morals, he's wrong about whoring. Yes, he's not the only one, but fathering bastards and cheating on your wife, specially being the King, is dishonouring and he knows and he doesn't care. There, he's wrong (although I wouldn't say "bad person" either).

Robert does understand that he is wrong though, he even uses wine to excuse himself.

[Fat Mac]

Robert does understand that he is wrong though, he even uses wine to excuse himself.

I thought Robert says he was doing wrong by being so forceful (since he is much stronger than Cersei), not necessarily for the sex itself.

[E-Ro]

I was a huge Stainnis fan from the beginning. But my favor with him is starting to wane....... :leaving:

What? I demand to know why.

[JonCon's Red Beard]

Robert does understand that he is wrong though, he even uses wine to excuse himself.

I thought Robert says he was doing wrong by being so forceful (since he is much stronger than Cersei), not necessarily for the sex itself.

Yep. And he does know he does wrong, hence the wine.

[Mladen]

The reason I have brought up exactly Blue Bard is because Cersei went Ramsay-level on him so that he exactly admits that he had sex with someone. Cersei herself 'punished' someone for sex. The sex that never happened! At least Cersei was sleeping around. As a reader I don't consider WOS as a punishment for just having sex. And I don't think it is supposed to be viewed as one. Sure in the story it is. But for me it's just something bad happened to Cersei. The same way Vargo Hoat didn't 'punish' Jaime for anything. It's just something bad happened to him. WOS is the result of everything Cersei did as a regent. And for me, for Blue Bard alone she deserved WOS. Sure, it was a very unpleasant and disgusting read. Although it gets much more pleasant if you read Blue Bard's torture scene before WOS.

I don't understand how any reader can take WOS as anything else other than just for having sex, when it is specifically said so. If we are not supposed to sympathize with Cersei, we would have someone else's POV, but we have hers... No, this isn't justice. There is no concept of karmic retribution in ASOIAF. This was just undeserved misogynist act... When she starts paying for the extensive list of crimes she has committed, I'll be satisfied. But this? This made me just pity her... Because no woman, no matter what she has done, deserved that. Especially not for having sex.

Hey if you guys are going to diverge the main topic of this thread because of some interpretation disagreement, can you at least make it about Stannis? :)

Yes, boardology never fails... :)

I confess Im not a brony, and I dont know were these vicious rumors come from, but be assured they have no basis in reality.

I would support you and tell the world that this isn't a lie but an honest confession, but I am offended that you didn't call me for a zoo trip...

[Winter's Knight]

1. E-ro be lying, he's a total brony.

Couldn't you guys make a seperate WoS thread?

[JonCon's Red Beard]

1. Couldn't you guys make a seperate WoS thread?

They never end up well :dunno:

[SeanF]

I don't understand how any reader can take WOS as anything else other than just for having sex, when it is specifically said so. If we are not supposed to sympathize with Cersei, we would have someone else's POV, but we have hers... No, this isn't justice. There is no concept of karmic retribution in ASOIAF. This was just undeserved misogynist act... When she starts paying for the extensive list of crimes she has committed, I'll be satisfied. But this? This made me just pity her... Because no woman, no matter what she has done, deserved that. Especially not for having sex

The Walk of Shame is horrible to read, and a rare instance where I feel sympathy for Cersei. But, she thought Margaery's sexual humiliation, when she was internally examined, was extremely funny. Had Margaery been made to undergo a Walk of Shame, Cersei would have wanted a seat in the front row.

[Northernmonkey]

Here's my confession - I don't like the dragons at all. I love all the other fantasy elements of the books, but the dragons seem stupid to me. The idea of three heroes riding three dragons and saving the day just seems like your generic fantasy stuff - not what I want from the books at all. I'm actually rooting for at least one of the dragons to get killed off soon.

I'll be honest - I don't even know which dragon is which. I know there's a black one and a white one and... I'm not sure about the other.

[UVA]

I confess Im not a brony, and I dont know were these vicious rumors come from, but be assured they have no basis in reality.

Hey buddy, haven't I told you about this documentary before? http://www.youtube.com/embed/ohnuyqJyEW0?feature=oembed

[Minsc]

This is not about exonerating Cersei from numerous crimes. She is one of the worst persons in ASOIAF universe, and she deserves to be punished for everything she did. But please, don't tell me that we have to enjoy when a woman is being mind raped because she had sex. The entire WOS, and the justification behind it is simply nonsensical. And the worst part was that her worst crimes, no ALL her ACTUAL crimes are unpunished. I find no satisfaction in seeing one woman being tormented for having intercourse with someone. No matter who that woman is.

Are you as outraged about the suffering Gregor went though because of Oberyn's poisoning?

In how, that only occurred because he championed Cersei's cause.

[Mladen]

Are you as outraged about the suffering Gregor went though because of Oberyn's poisoning?

In how, that only occurred because he championed Cersei's cause.

He went through suffering because he was in a duel with the man whose sister and nephews he has killed. What Oberyn did may be in grey zone of fairness, but comparing that to the WoS where woman is punished for having sex (while at the same time no one is much worried about husbands' bastards roaming around) is simply wrong...

1. Couldn't you guys make a seperate WoS thread?

They never end up well :dunno:

Oh, you know me... I take this rather too seriously. And JCRB, those threads never end well...

But, interestingly enough, regarding confessions:

1. I confess that I hate Cersei

2. I confess I want her to pay for all the crimes she has done

3. I confess that she is as crazy as you can get

4. I confess that she is, morally, one of the darkest characters in the series with so few redeeming qualities, if one.

But at the same time, I have to confess:

1. WoS is not fair

2. Robert unjustly raped her and abused her

It's matter of principle, not whether I like her or not...

[The Summer Islander]

What? I demand to know why.

It's the show. They have made a complete joke of him. And it starts to bleed over into my mind when I read on page.

[The Summer Islander]

irrational i know, but I just can't seem to help it!

[Minsc]

He went through suffering because he was in a duel with the man whose sister and nephews he has killed. What Oberyn did may be in grey zone of fairness, but comparing that to the WoS where woman is punished for having sex (while at the same time no one is much worried about husbands' bastards roaming around) is simply wrong..

Cersei had also previously had the last High Septon killed and was being punished by his successor

[Mladen]

Cersei had also previously had the last High Septon killed and was being punished by his successor

Is she walking the WoS for that murder? No. As I said, I know her crimes, but Wos wasn't about them.

ETA: That is like when people say that Cat deserved RW for being cold to Jon

[Minsc]

Is she walking the WoS for that murder? No. As I said, I know her crimes, but Wos wasn't about them.

Was Gregor's trial by combat about Elia and Aegon?

[Dofs]

I don't understand how any reader can take WOS as anything else other than just for having sex, when it is specifically said so. If we are not supposed to sympathize with Cersei, we would have someone else's POV, but we have hers... No, this isn't justice. There is no concept of karmic retribution in ASOIAF. This was just undeserved misogynist act... When she starts paying for the extensive list of crimes she has committed, I'll be satisfied. But this? This made me just pity her... Because no woman, no matter what she has done, deserved that. Especially not for having sex.

I doesn't change anything or me, whether WOS is a punishment for having sex, or for her actual crime like torturing Blue Bard for example. After all she had done what is important for me is that she is punished and not for what she is punished. Again, quotes from Blue Bard's torture:

'Lord Qyburn ran a hand up the Blue Bard's chest. "Does she take your nipples in her mouth during your love play?" He took one between his thumb and forefinger, and twisted. "Some men enjoy that. Their nipples are as sensitive as a woman's." The razor flashed, the singer shrieked. On his chest a wet red eye wept blood.'

'By dawn the singer's high blue boots were full of blood'

' Wat looked at her with the one blue eye that Qyburn had left him. Blood bubbled through the holes where his front teeth had been.'

The more I read this, the less I care for what Cersei was punished with WOS.

[Minsc]

ETA: That is like when people say that Cat deserved RW for being cold to Jon

Not really, as that isn't a crime and even it was unnice that is too drastic. Especially, seeing how otherwise Catelyn was a moral and good person.

In contrast, Cersei committed actual horrible crimes and is a monster

[Woman of War]

They're nicer! Also, the mindset is more similar to mine-i don't feel that I'm constantly going over the same ground over and over.

Aww, I've had exams and the forums have been somewhat dry of late.

Also I am disappointed to hear Linda is involved with WoIaF.

*cancels order*

Can someone explain to me what this Linda dislike is about? This is not a rhetoric question, I honestly don't know. I mean, she and Elio are the ones doing the work in this forum, have I missed a conflict? Not that I wish to participate, I'm just curious.