Doctor Who Series 8; The time of the man that stops the monsters (v2)

[mormont]

They shouldn't have bothered with Maeve having emotional problems and (caused by), not to mention her sister having gone missing; it was too much, a distraction from the main story and there wasn't enough time to develop either subplot to any satisfaction.

Sure, but thematically I think it mattered. They wanted to reiterate the point about 'superpowers' made earlier in the series: Maeve has this sensitivity because of a traumatic event. So I don't agree that it could have been removed.

Overall, this was not nearly as bad an episode as 'Kill the Moon', though it has some similarities. It's another 'never mind whether it makes sense' episode, where we're just meant to marvel at the writer's awesome concept. But it's slightly better, because it lacks the stupidity of the ending of 'KtM'. Plus, it looked really good, and I didn't find the kids nearly as annoying as some of you seem to have. Faint praise is all I have, though.

[protar]

It wasn't too bad, but the redheaded girl was incredibly annoying and on the whole I think the kids felt more like primary school students rather than year 7s. And the stuff with Maeve's sister going missing wasn't really explained unless I missed something? Why was her disappearance related to the trees? How did you come back? I was also expecting a much creepier episode, maybe actually set you know...at night. With scary trees like the Huorns in LOTR (not capable of full movement, but able to slowly creep about and cause trouble.).

[Seli]

I liked the episode, even though it does not quite work on its own. It is a nice jigsaw piece in the bigger picture. Developing Clara and the Doctor, and even Danny a bit. It also seems to tie together other bits of pieces of Moffat writing, the forest in the "Narnia Chistmas thing", the Vashta Nerada, the central theme that folk tales and memories hide things we have allowed ourselves to forget.

And I did not even mind the kids.

I've got a horrible feeling I know how the season finale is going to play out. I'll put it in spoilers for people who didn't watch the trailer

It shows Clara saying "I'm not Clara Oswald. She never existed" or words to that effect. So she was some kind of trap to lure the Doctor in? But I bet in the end her love for Danny overwhelms everything else, helping her to become "human" again to help save the day.

If that happens, I think I might throw up. But it's something Moffat would probably do.

Going by the way the previous trailers this season where cut I wouldn't trust them for a straightforward interpretation at all.

[williamjm]

I think I liked it better than a lot of you did, but I agree it had some flaws. I liked the concept of the trees protecting the world even if it is another Doctor Who plot where you don't want to think too much about it. I agree most of the children were fairly pointless in the episode, I don't know if it's fair to really blame the actors too much when they don't seem to have been given anything more than the most rudimentary characterisation to work with.

He still did a better job than Clara. Love how she decided the kids would rather be incinerated than separated from their mums (dads don't seem to exist in this episode) without ever asking them.

I think that's another example of an idea that might have sounded good when it was first proposed (Clara trying to save the Doctor even if they couldn't save the Earth) but the writing didn't quite make it work. It might be a traumatic experience being separated from their families but I agree it's better than dying.

Probably not as central london only seems to have a dozen people in it...

Hardly anyone lives in central London and the commuters wouldn't be able to get in due to the trees so this isn't entirely unreasonable.

[sj4iy]

Eh, I'm not going to fault Clara for deciding not to save the children...she's seen what it's like for the Doctor to live as the last of one's species, and it's a grim fate for anyone. Given the choice between dying with everyone I ever knew or living on without them, the choice is clear...I would choose death.

[Castel]

Eh, I'm not going to fault Clara for deciding not to save the children...she's seen what it's like for the Doctor to live as the last of one's species, and it's a grim fate for anyone. Given the choice between dying with everyone I ever knew or living on without them, the choice is clear...I would choose death.

At which point Clara says "fuck your choices", pushes a button and you become the Doctor's immortal sidekick.

Why do you talk as if your future is about you and not what Clara wants for you?

[sj4iy]

At which point Clara says "fuck your choices", pushes a button and you become the Doctor's immortal sidekick.

Why do you talk as if your future is about you and not what Clara wants for you?

Because I have children, and as much as I would want them to live, I wouldn't want them to be forever alone in the universe without their own kind or own planet to go back to.

Death isn't always worse in some situations.

[Castel]

Because I have children, and as much as I would want them to live, I wouldn't want them to be forever alone in the universe without their own kind or own planet to go back to.

Death isn't always worse in some situations.

So people cannot be trusted to decide when their lives should end?Interesting to see this logic being applied to people who aren't suicidal for once.

That said, it was a snide comment. There's a reason I referenced her actions in KtM, Clara clearly knows what's best for you, it doesn't matter if you're an entire planet or a pack of kids.

Also: this is Doctor Who, it doesn't really make sense that there's nowhere for anyone to go.

[sj4iy]

So people cannot be trusted to decide when their lives should end?Interesting to see this logic being applied to people who aren't suicidal for once.

That said, it was a snide comment. There's a reason I referenced her actions in KtM, Clara clearly knows what's best for you, it doesn't matter if you're an entire planet or a pack of kids.

Also: this is Doctor Who, it doesn't really make sense that there's nowhere for anyone to go.

Didn't say there wasn't a place for them to go...I said they wouldn't be with their own kind on their own planet anymore.

Clara can be bossy, but I was simply saying that I agreed with her decision this time.

[felice]

Eh, I'm not going to fault Clara for deciding not to save the children...she's seen what it's like for the Doctor to live as the last of one's species, and it's a grim fate for anyone. Given the choice between dying with everyone I ever knew or living on without them, the choice is clear...I would choose death.

The Doctor's lifestyle didn't change so you'd notice when his species appeared to be wiped out; he had virtually nothing to do with them by choice for most of his life. And he's known for hundreds of years now that his home planet and most of his people are actually perfectly fine. And in this case, it's not a case of everyone you know dying; you get to survive with your partner (the only person on Earth you seem to be close to) and a dozen of the kids you're responsible for (a nicely genetically diverse bunch if you want to rebuild the species). And the kids have their classmates and a pair of their favourite teachers. I certainly wouldn't want anyone choosing death for me in that situation!

[Arkash]

And he's known for hundreds of years now that his home planet and most of his people are actually perfectly fine.

Wouldnt bet on that. It wouldnt surprise me if there were crisis in Gallifrey when we'll eventually come back to it. Time Lords can never be perfectly fine.

[polishgenius]

Much like the Robin Hood one earlier in the season, I liked that a lot more than I was expecting to. Yeah, the kids couldn't act but their lines amused me, the Doctor was great - good to see the caring side of him come out in the last two episodes- and I liked that they didn't milk Clara lying to Danny for too much tension, and resolved it fairly well.

I didn't find the fake bad science nearly as annoying as Kill the Moon, for some reason. Maybe because this was all related to one high-concept whereas KtM never existed.

The big sister hiding in the bush at the end was just silly though. Bit of an implictation that she was re-created by the trees, which is all sorts of troubling...

About the next-time:

Fairly big sign that they at least want you to think that (a)Clara is Missy and (2) both are River Song.

Eta: Although looking at it again, I'm having the thought that maybe Missy isn't evil at all and is trying to stop whoever Clara is meant to be.

[williamjm]

The Doctor's lifestyle didn't change so you'd notice when his species appeared to be wiped out; he had virtually nothing to do with them by choice for most of his life. And he's known for hundreds of years now that his home planet and most of his people are actually perfectly fine. And in this case, it's not a case of everyone you know dying; you get to survive with your partner (the only person on Earth you seem to be close to) and a dozen of the kids you're responsible for (a nicely genetically diverse bunch if you want to rebuild the species). And the kids have their classmates and a pair of their favourite teachers. I certainly wouldn't want anyone choosing death for me in that situation!

Also, I think there's a decent chance that if they tried they could have picked up the kids' parents in the Tardis given that we know the mobile networks still work so it shouldn't be all that hard to find them, compared to some of the other things we've seen the Doctor do in a limited amount of time that should be relatively straightforward.

[Starkess]

I didn't hate it, but it wasn't my favorite episode.

My impression with the sister was that she had run away and when she heard Maebh's plea, she decided to come home. But it was a little weird the way she was hiding inside a bush, so...? Also not clear on the connection between the firefly-things and the trees. I would hope that they were the ones directing the trees to grow or something, because how could trees know, but that wasn't clear to me at all.

[alguien]

A big 'meh' from me. This was probably my least-favorite episode of the season, slightly less interesting than "Kill the Moon." I didn't hate it though, and thought Capaldi good as ever, but it just felt off somehow.

The Doctor would never leave. Nor would he say settle for odd analysis of "this isn't in history, and makes no sense, but ah well!" Poor writing to ratchet up the tension. Disappointing.

Clara and Danny's relationship was not consistent here, either.

Regarding next week's preview, I swear to God, if they make Clara either a Cyberman- or Missy-plant to kill the Doctor, and not real, I am going to be insanely pissed.

That kind of lazy crap ruined the amazing potential of River Song. It's shoddy, one-note, repetitive, and most importantly, doesn't work.

[protar]

I didn't hate it, but it wasn't my favorite episode.

My impression with the sister was that she had run away and when she heard Maebh's plea, she decided to come home. But it was a little weird the way she was hiding inside a bush, so...? Also not clear on the connection between the firefly-things and the trees. I would hope that they were the ones directing the trees to grow or something, because how could trees know, but that wasn't clear to me at all.

The impression I got was that Maebh's sister went missing in an unrelated incident, the trauma of which tuned Maebh into the trees psychic network. And then as a thank you, the trees found her sister and teleported her back.

[Filippa Eilhart]

Eh, I'm not going to fault Clara for deciding not to save the children...she's seen what it's like for the Doctor to live as the last of one's species, and it's a grim fate for anyone. Given the choice between dying with everyone I ever knew or living on without them, the choice is clear...I would choose death.

there was enough of them there to kick-start the species again :p

[BormonReborn]

Maybe this point has been made, but I have been having a fundamental problem with the show lately .... well ever since Tennant's incarnation.

This most recent episode kind of highlights my point too. There are too many Earth-centric stories. We keep having events that have global significance, yet little to no repercussions from these events. Why couldn't this story been on another human planet?

We have had global invasions, Daleks, Cybermen, cubes from outer space, trees, and other HUGE events (this doesn't even count Torchwood - Children of Earth), but no one seems to be effected by these events.

The writers need to STOP using global catastrophes on earth.

[Arkash]

:agree:

I think I read that somewhere Moffat wants to deal with the repercussions of the Doctor's journeys through Capaldi's arc but that really has not started yet. And I'd love if there was an episode dealing with all those extraterrestrial threats and attacks the Earth has gone through. Maybe an episode where the Earth governments publicly aknowledge the existence of alien life forms and the reactions of the populations.

And since UNIT seems to show up in the finale (glimpse of them in the trailer), maybe some of that will be featuring.

[Jon's Queen Consort]

About Doctor's hair.

All the season there were differences when it comes to Doctor's hair length:

The Time of the Doctor: long.

Deep Breath: short

Into the Dalek: short

Robot of Sherwood: mediumish

Listen: short

Time Heist: short

The Caretaker: mediumish

Kill the Moon: long

Mummy on the Orient Express: long

Flatline: 1.long 2 short

In the Forest of the Night: long

Could it mean something about the plot or simply a production error?