It's official. Benedict Cumberbatch is Strange. The Doctor.

[red snow]

1 hour ago, Myrddin said:

Right!?!

Rand: Strange! Dr. Strange! So surreal seeing you here in Greenwich. Remember me? We bumped into each other at the tea house near our respective monasteries. You went on about some out of body experience and I shared this energy thing they're teaching me.

Strange: Never seen you before. That would make my unique life experience less so.

Wayne: But we said we'd be friends even when we got home.

Chandler Jarrell: I, I, Want the knife.... Please.... 

If only they good make a team out of them. The Tibetan Avengers or Karma Police.

[The BlackBear]

There was an Iron Man story I remember with monk engineers. I don't think they were Tibetan, but they had the whole Buddhist warrior thing going on, but with Iron Man armour:

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/marveldatabase/images/c/c3/Sons_of_Yinsen_(Earth-616).JPG/revision/latest?cb=20120317212643

[The Anti-Targ]

I guess this is the thread to resurrect now that the movie is out (release date here is today)

Good reviews so far, but a few concerns that it is a bit light weight and generic. Visuals and action, check. substance: a bit lacking.

Still looking forward to it.

[Werthead]

My take on the movie:

Quote

Stephen Strange is one of the best neurosurgeons in the world, until a car accident sees his hands crushed. Strange tries everything to heal his injury and eventually, broke and desperate, he travels to Kathmandu. In a sanctum called Kamar-Taj he meets the Ancient One, a sorcerer who defends Earth from mystical and spiritual threats. Extremely reluctantly, she agrees to take on Strange as a student. He proves a quick servant, but his hunger for knowledge raises awkward memories of a previous student, Kaecilius, who turned to evil. When Kaecilius mounts a surprise attack, it is left to the inexperienced Strange to face him.

Doctor Strange is the fourteenth film in the Marvel Cinematic Universe and has one of the less-enviable tasks in the canon: it has to introduce the entire mystical, spiritual and magical side of the Marvel Comics universe to the movies, which have so far explained everything through hyper-advanced science. But by this point the MCU is absolutely over-brimming with confidence and Doctor Strange struts onto screen with almost as much swagger as the title character when he is introduced performing brain surgery to 1970s pop music (because that's just how rad he is).

In fact, Doctor Strange is a near-pitch-perfect popcorn movie. It knows it's not an Avengers, Civil War or even a Guardians of the Galaxy which is going to drag in massive crowds through bombast and slick team banter, and, like last year's similarly fun and chilled Ant-Man, it sets out to have a good time. It establishes Strange - played with the requisite charisma and arrogance by Benedict Cumberbatch - as brilliant but consumed by hubris. It has fun casting him down to his lowest ebb, getting him to Nepal and into a series of training montages with Tilda Swinton and Chiwetel Ejiofor before he is ready to go fight villain Mads Mikkelsen in a mind-bending series of fights in alternate realities that out-Inception Inception about twenty times over.

For a movie dealing in the strange and mystical, the plot is surprisingly light and straightforward, the fight sequences are well-staged and the presentation of magic as a tangible force of nature is both different and well-done (and is actually slightly reminiscent of how it was handled in last year's WarCraft movie). At under two hours the film doesn't outstay its welcome and it handles its cliches with charm. The effects are also splendid: the Inception-aping scenes of New York folding in on itself are amazing, but there's also a brilliant homage to 2001: A Space Odyssey and the film's crown jewel, a fight sequence in a street where time is flowing backwards, with people un-dying and things un-exploding all around the characters. It's a brilliant, clever and original visual effect.

The film also holds back the best for the ending. If the Marvel movies have had a key weakness, it's been that they always get resolved in a morass of punching, explosions and CGI of wildly varying quality. That's fine, but after thirteen previous movies that was starting to get a bit old. Doctor Strange wrong-foots the audience by presenting them with all the set-up for one hell of a massive battle, but then throws things for a loop and resolves the story in a completely different way (although one oddly similar to a recent episode of Doctor Who). I wanted to stand up and applaud Marvel for finally having the courage to end one of their movies in a clever and cunning way that avoids lunatic ultraviolence and massive civilian casualties.

There are some drawbacks. There's perhaps a bit too much of Inception in the CG sequences, which start to get a little wearying towards the end of the film, and Mads Mikkelsen's villain is never really developed in an interesting manner (the perennial weakness of most of the Marvel movies to date).

But overall Doctor Strange (****½) is a very solid slice of confident, popcorn entertainment, but which also has the confidence to try and do things a bit differently to the Marvel norm. The film is on general release in the UK right now and comes out in the United States on 4 November.

 

Quote

substance: a bit lacking.

Do you think any of the Marvel movies have had substance?

I'd say that Doctor Strange fits into the Ant-Man bracket of being a well-judged origin movie about a more obscure character but nevertheless makes it work. It ties into the overall Marvel universe a bit more strongly than Ant-Man and is probably a (slightly) better movie.

[polishgenius]

Saw it. It's fun, but pretty forgettable.

I like the

idea of the ending but sadly Dormammu was absolutely rubbish to look at and pathetic to listen to and the weight of Strange's sacrifice was never sold, so it flopped a bit for me.

Add to that the magic was a little too mechanical on the visual side for my tastes (though that's a personal quirk obviously) and it leaned too hard on the snarky humour, to the point of overwhelming emotion.

It's better than Iron Man 2 and Ant-Man, but they could have at least been a little more daring and imaginative in breaking out from the formula.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Probably bottom 3 marvel movie for me: Maybe the worst I think. Can't remember if its as bad as Thor 2 but as bad as IM2 was, that did have amusing moments. 

Dr Strange had a number of problems before it even started that it never really found a solution to. 

 

1) The silliness factor. Magic, people in silly costumes; bizarre names and weird dimensions. Its hard to take any of that seriously, do it badly and everyone is laughing at your movie. It wasn't laugh inducing but at the same time it didn't find a balance of self importance and cynicism.

I think you could only have done this well by either not taking the magic seriously or going all in and doubling down on the melodrama. Instead the movie attempted to lighten the mood with quips but none of them hit very well ( except the wifi joke).  

This led to too many moments that were flat out ridiculous and childish, which could have been forgiven in better hands.

2) The main character is pretty dull and one dimensional. Stephen is basically Tony Stark with magic, except he's not very charismatic or watchable, and isn't funny despite what he says. I left the theatre with no sense of who Dr Strange was apart from some broad platitudes about working hard and arrogance. I have little incentive to want to watch him again.

3) All marvel movies have a problem with villains, and this is no exception. Mads didn't just look bored and embarssed but everything about him was lazy and badly thought out. A world ending plan that sort of makes sense except it doesn't. They never bothered to explore his motives , so he was just a bad guy who needed defeating. Plus his make up was silly.

4) Origin stories always have the same problem.. the second half. I enjoy most first halves of origin movies, but the second half involves bland end of the world villain who's only there to showcase the heroes powers. This was a classic example.

....

There maybe were some highlights but it's hard to think what they were. The whole movie was average in many ways, the action was especially disappointing. Even the inception stuff was completely uninvolving, you are always so aware of how it's just a computer.. phantom menace style. 

The only moment where the movie did something interesting was during the ending. Which I won't spoil but it wasn't enough to get me to go back.

[red snow]

35 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

2) The main character is pretty dull and one dimensional. Stephen is basically Tony Stark with magic, except he's not very charismatic or watchable, and isn't funny despite what he says. I left the theatre with no sense of who Dr Strange was apart from some broad platitudes about working hard and arrogance. I have little incentive to want to watch him again.

 

Pretty loyal to the comic then

Your review sounds on the money. Cookie counter marvel formula but minus the fun - possibly because it's uncomfortable handling the magic?

I feel the promos for this have even struggled to catch attention largely due to nto being able to emphasise the fun. GOTG should have been a hard sell but they had us buy into it looking fun. Dr Strange has looked like a weird blend of Avatar and Inception but nothing of fun there. I was dubious of Ant-man (and only watched as i had free tickets) but the trailer at least appeared fun.

I'll get around to watching it and even Thor 2 i found entertaining first time around. Age of ultron is still the one that pisses me off the most especially in terms of first viewing. Never feel like MArvel is a waste of a cinema ticket just not always convinced i have to see them all. That said, I've yet to miss a marvel movie on the big screen. So DC needs to sort itself out as I've yet to see suicide squad and that's only their third shared uni film

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

I forgot about Ultron, although I guess it had enough scale to make up for its flaws.

 

Yeah Strange is a Strange property. I can't sense much excitement about it in the media or in discussion. Not sure anyone knows what to do with it. None of the trailers excited me and there was a fight clip they released that I thought must have had some element missing because it was so off.

Think this has been a real mis-step for marvel, hope they don't plan on hanging too much on this franchise.

Think I'm getting superhero fatigue now. Have struggled to finish to last 3 Netflix marvel shows and only Civil War has been approaching decent for a while now

[polishgenius]

45 minutes ago, red snow said:

 Cookie counter marvel formula but minus the fun
 

There are a fair few issues with it but I wouldn't say it lacks for fun.

 

1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

1) The silliness factor. Magic, people in silly costumes; bizarre names and weird dimensions.

Oh come on. If this kind of thing is a problem for you then how are you still watching superhero movies, especially the Marvel-verse? Apart from the deliberately silly cloak (which I did find slightly over the line), I don't think Strange had any more of a problem with it than any of the rest of the MCU.

[Martini Sigil]

22 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I forgot about Ultron, although I guess it had enough scale to make up for its flaws.

 

Yeah Strange is a Strange property. I can't sense much excitement about it in the media or in discussion. Not sure anyone knows what to do with it. None of the trailers excited me and there was a fight clip they released that I thought must have had some element missing because it was so off.

Think this has been a real mis-step for marvel, hope they don't plan on hanging too much on this franchise.

Think I'm getting superhero fatigue now. Have struggled to finish to last 3 Netflix marvel shows and only Civil War has been approaching decent for a while now

I totally get what you're saying... I don't think many kids had Dr Strange posters on their wall growing up.... maybe I'm wrong.... but when I'd talk with my friends about comics as a kid, no one ever gushed about this property... So probably from the start --in that regard-- its fighting uphill

Conversely, it does have the advantage of riding a giant wave... One of the things that Disney/Marvel has done right is that every origin film has had its own feel...  The trailer made this kind of look like Inception, so my guess is that they're hoping that the effects are central to this character...

That said, I'm in the tank for Marvel... so I'll probably like this more than I should.... and as luke-warm as I am about Cumberbatch.... I do love Mads Mickelson, and Chiwetel Ejiofor (who I think is an extraordinary actor)

[Liffguard]

19 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

Oh come on. If this kind of thing is a problem for you then how are you still watching superhero movies, especially the Marvel-verse? Apart from the deliberately silly cloak (which I did find slightly over the line), I don't think Strange had any more of a problem with it than any of the rest of the MCU.

My problem with this wasn't just that it was silly, but also just kinda generic and po-faced. "The Dark Dimension," really? And whenever they said it, it was with this really overly heavy delivery. I almost expected there to be a thunderclap in the background whenever it was mentioned.

It also felt thematically muddled. Strange starts out arrogant, stubborn and self-important and he ends arrogant, stubborn and self-important, but the way the film is structured I get the impression we're supposed to think he learned something. Yeah, he resolved the world-ending threat by potentially making himself a martyr for all humanity, but how does that jive with the supposed aesop that not everything is about him?

I didn't hate the movie, but everything about it felt clumsy and off in tone.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

46 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

There are a fair few issues with it but I wouldn't say it lacks for fun.

 

Oh come on. If this kind of thing is a problem for you then how are you still watching superhero movies, especially the Marvel-verse? Apart from the deliberately silly cloak (which I did find slightly over the line), I don't think Strange had any more of a problem with it than any of the rest of the MCU.

Id say most other marvel movies handle the silly really well. They either laugh at it like Ant Man or they go full operatic like Thor. Those movies tend to work, this didn't because it muddled its way between the two. 

[red snow]

12 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

I forgot about Ultron, although I guess it had enough scale to make up for its flaws.

 

Yeah Strange is a Strange property. I can't sense much excitement about it in the media or in discussion. Not sure anyone knows what to do with it. None of the trailers excited me and there was a fight clip they released that I thought must have had some element missing because it was so off.

Think this has been a real mis-step for marvel, hope they don't plan on hanging too much on this franchise.

Think I'm getting superhero fatigue now. Have struggled to finish to last 3 Netflix marvel shows and only Civil War has been approaching decent for a while now

I actually think Strange could have worked better as a netflix show. They could have cut back a little on the SFX and they'd have been good to go.

I'm pleased they are taking some chances with their franchises.

[mormont]

Saw this last night. It wasn't too bad, but it's not one I can see myself watching multiple times.

I actually liked a lot of stuff C4JS disliked, but I suppose we're looking for different things from these movies. I even quite liked Dormammu, though I realise it may nod too much to the comics version for some people. I definitely preferred the film to either Age of Ultron or Thor 2, which is still by a long way the nadir of the Marvel movies. I'd rate it about the same as the original Cap movie, even. It's a tough sell but they largely pull it off.

One thing I was interested in was seeing whether the decision to put Tilda Swinton in the role of The Ancient One paid off, and... it kinda didn't. She was perfectly fine, I suppose, but brought nothing to the role that I could see that couldn't have been done by someone else. Don't get me wrong, I think she's a brilliant actor, but I was looking for some compelling reason why she was cast, and it just wasn't there.

By contrast, Chiwetel Ejiofor was great. The direction they're going in with Mordo is vastly different, basically a completely new character with the same name, so he had to sell it - and he did, despite being lumbered with one or two dodgy bits of dialogue. Even the post-credits scene worked for me.

Cumberbatch was fine: it's a good bit of casting and his performance was good, but not amazing. I think the writers need to ease back on trying to make Strange relatable, though. The weird thing they did with him attempting humour, and then falling flat... yeah, that's not Stephen Strange's deal at all.

I'd agree Mads Mikkelsen's character was underdeveloped but he made the most of what little he had to work with.

The main thing, though, was the amazing cinematography and set pieces. That reverse-action sequence was stunning. I'm off to look on the internet for the inevitable forward-running version.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

3 hours ago, mormont said:

the nadir of the Marvel movies. I'd rate it about the same as the original Cap movie, even. It's a tough sell but they largely pull it off.

One thing I was interested in was seeing whether the decision to put Tilda Swinton in the role of The Ancient One paid off, and... it kinda didn't. She was perfectly fine, I suppose, but brought nothing to the role that I could see that couldn't have been done by someone else. Don't get me wrong, I think she's a brilliant actor, but I was looking for some compelling reason why she was cast, and it just wasn't there.

By contrast, Chiwetel Ejiofor was great. The direction they're going in with Mordo is vastly different, basically a completely new character with the same name, so he had to sell it - and he did, despite being lumbered with one or two dodgy bits of dialogue. Even the post-credits scene worked for me.

Cumberbatch was fine: it's a good bit of casting and his performance was good, but not amazing. I think the writers need to ease back on trying to make Strange relatable, though. The weird thing they did with him attempting humour, and then falling flat... yeah, that's not Stephen Strange's deal at all.

I'd agree Mads Mikkelsen's character was underdeveloped but he made the most of what little he had to work with.

The main thing, though, was the amazing cinematography and set pieces. That reverse-action sequence was stunning. I'm off to look on the internet for the inevitable forward-running version.

Ejiofor was by far the best performance in the movie, in the very limited screen time that he was given. I'm really only talking about his very last scene in fact, but that was the one time during the entire movie that there was some sort of emotional punch, someone actually projecting their feelings. It was a overly dramatic, but it sort of worked. It made me realise why the rest of the movie didn't. It just didn't have any sort of emotional connection.

The one thing you could maybe hang your feelings on was Stranges loss of use of his hands, which had potential. If they'd delved into it a bit more, showed how he changed from over reliance on his hands and ego to something else, then maybe the movie would have worked. But instead they just threw in an 'end of the world baddie. 

I agree on Swinton, she didn't seem that interested, and although there was a glimpse of something interesting about the concept of the character, it was wasted because they didn't expand on the reasons she did what she did.


Either way, I think its possible I've moved on from Marvel movies, or that I'm growing tired of them. I can't just sit and be happy with this level of storytelling now, I've been too spoiled by Winter soldier and Civil War. Dr Strange might have gotten a pass 10 years ago, when I was happy to see anything Marvel related. But now its just treading old ground and not actually being particularly interesting. I hope Phase 3 in general doesn't make the same mistakes.

[red snow]

I'm sort of scratching my head at how you could get Chiwetel Ejiofor on board for a Marvel film and not give him a leading role? There must be some black characters outside of Black Panther and Luke Cage they could use? Or any of the characters irrespective of colour.

It's a bit like how they had Idris Elba play a bit part too.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

11 minutes ago, red snow said:

I'm sort of scratching my head at how you could get Chiwetel Ejiofor on board for a Marvel film and not give him a leading role? There must be some black characters outside of Black Panther and Luke Cage they could use? Or any of the characters irrespective of colour.

It's a bit like how they had Idris Elba play a bit part too.

I sort of get the feeling Marvel / Disney are throwing good actors at films hoping something will stick. His role could have been pivotal, but in this he was just set dressing mostly, sharing screen time with a number of other less than important characters. Its a shame.

[polishgenius]

15 minutes ago, red snow said:

I'm sort of scratching my head at how you could get Chiwetel Ejiofor on board for a Marvel film and not give him a leading role? There must be some black characters outside of Black Panther and Luke Cage they could use? Or any of the characters irrespective of colour.

It's a bit like how they had Idris Elba play a bit part too.

 

In fairness, Ejiofor is pretty obviously going to be the villain in any Strange sequel (and he was cast irrespective of colour because Mordo's a white dude in the comics). It actually does make a bit of sense doing it this way and showing his relationship with Strange before it goes sour. I actually thought that was one of the things the film handled well enough, although the post-credits scene made it too quick a swing in character for him.

  It is odd because Mordo in the comics is essentially Mads Mikkelsen's character in the film so why they didn't just call him Mordo and give Ejiofor's apparently new character a new name I don't know.


 

2 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

but that was the one time during the entire movie that there was some sort of emotional punch, someone actually projecting their feelings. It was a overly dramatic, but it sort of worked. It made me realise why the rest of the movie didn't. It just didn't have any sort of emotional connection.

It's certainly true that the film seemed to shy away from showing emotion for some reason- like I said above, they turned to humour too often when some sincerity was needed- but I did also like the Ancient One's last scene.

[red snow]

52 minutes ago, polishgenius said:

 

In fairness, Ejiofor is pretty obviously going to be the villain in any Strange sequel (and he was cast irrespective of colour because Mordo's a white dude in the comics). It actually does make a bit of sense doing it this way and showing his relationship with Strange before it goes sour. I actually thought that was one of the things the film handled well enough, although the post-credits scene made it too quick a swing in character for him.

  It is odd because Mordo in the comics is essentially Mads Mikkelsen's character in the film so why they didn't just call him Mordo and give Ejiofor's apparently new character a new name I don't know.


 

It's certainly true that the film seemed to shy away from showing emotion for some reason- like I said above, they turned to humour too often when some sincerity was needed- but I did also like the Ancient One's last scene.

Sounds a bit like the Sinestro set up in Green Lantern. Guess Strange has more chance of a sequel.

This is embarassing, I've been mixing Mordo with Brother Voodoo. Brother Voodoo would have made more sense as an ally of Strange though? Have to admit I've never read any solo Strange outside the Brian K Vaughan mini-series.

[BigFatCoward]

7.5, right in the middle of the pack of MCU.  

Terrible american accent to my ears, special effects were pretty f'ing awesome, but story seemed utterly nonsensical 'we have 3 sites around the globe that are critical to save the world' 'how many guards should we put at each?' 'not many should do the trick'.