Sansa will marry Jon Snow v2

[Mladen]

'Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. “There are worse things than spiders and rats,” he whispered. “This is where the dead walk.” That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya’s hand.

When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood, Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb’s leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. “You stupid,” she told him, “you scared the baby,” but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laughing too'

Notice how Bran clings to Robb, and Arya holds his hand? Sansa runs away. Another hint at the original plot where she betrays them?

Bran had the same reaction as Sansa, as any children would have. So, if you want to argue that Sansa's fear which made her to run is foreshadowing that she will "betray" them, use it for Bran. Then it will make some sense.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Bran had the same reaction as Sansa, as any children would have. So, if you want to argue that Sansa's fear which made her to run is foreshadowing that she will "betray" them, use it for Bran. Then it will make some sense.

Bran didn't run, Bran clung to Robb's leg and cried. They stuck together when faced with a scare. Sansa legged it and didn't look back. Arya of course, punched it. Bran wants the protection of his family most of all.

[1234567]

Why does everyone keep saying Jon and Sansa think of each other as brother and sister? They haven't really interacted in the series. We don't really know anything about their feelings for each other. Yes, Sansa calls Jon her bastard half-brother, because that's what she knows him to be. That doesn't mean she has sisterly feelings for him. Same goes for Jon.

Jon thinks of how Sansa told him about how he should speak to girls when he meets Ygritte and she thinks of him when she sees Yoren and hopes not all the night's watch are like that because if they are, she feels sorry for Jon. Then she also thinks how it would be nice to see him again as although he is only a half brother, he is all the family she has. They think of each other as family. It seems unlikely they will end up together: the women Jon is attracted to are very different personality wise and Sansa's romantic story seems to be leading elsewhere.

[Mladen]

Bran didn't run, Bran clung to Robb's leg and cried. They stuck together when faced with a scare. Sansa legged it and didn't look back. Arya of course, punched it. Bran wants the protection of his family most of all.

Bran and Sansa had the same reaction - fear. She ran away out of fear and Bran clinged to Robb. That is practically the same thing. Also, do I need to repeat how many times Sansa uttered the words "brave as Robb". Some people conveniently forget that.

[1234567]

Notice how Bran clings to Robb, and Arya holds his hand? Sansa runs away. Another hint at the original plot where she betrays them?

I may have missed it, but it doesn't say she betrays them but that she sides with husband and child and later regrets it.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Bran and Sansa had the same reaction - fear. She ran away out of fear and Bran clinged to Robb. That is practically the same thing. Also, do I need to repeat how many times Sansa uttered the words "brave as Robb". Some people conveniently forget that.

Arya was afraid too, that is why she lashed out before she noticed it was Jon. I'm not saying Sansa isn't brave. I'm saying that this story is a nice little insight into their priorities in a quick reaction. Sansa turns her back instinctively. That isn't to say she is not changing. Like I said, it might refer to the original plot where she turns her back on her siblings. Its not the be all and end all of Sansa's character.

I may have missed it, but it doesn't say she betrays them but that she sides with husband and child and later regrets it.

Her husband is on the Lannister side against the Starks, he is at war with Robb. So she lines up next to Joffrey instead of her brother. Seems like betrayal to me.

[Mladen]

Arya was afraid too, that is why she lashed out before she noticed it was Jon. I'm not saying Sansa isn't brave. I'm saying that this story is a nice little insight into their priorities in a quick reaction. Sansa turns her back instinctively. That isn't to say she is not changing. Like I said, it might refer to the original plot where she turns her back on her siblings. Its not the be all and end all of Sansa's character.

If we are going to say how different Stark sisters are in terms of their responses to danger, we see two very beautiful wolfish responds. The first one is to attack, and Arya is like that, but the second one when wolves get overpowered is to pull back and Sansa is someone who wonderfully mimics that. Sisters are different, but even their differences come from one source. And we see how Sansa loves her siblings from naming her children after her "dead" brothers, to finding strength in memory of Robb. Sansa from those 2 pages doesn't exist. And somehow people want to delete four books to push their arguments.

[Grail King]

There is still the chance that Sansa's first child will be a bastard as there is foreshadowing for it and her views on sex before marriage are now more along the lines of "so what". It may well be that she has a child with someone she loves. It looks like originally Sansa and her children would have been killed by Jaime, but this may well have changed to Cersei and her children's' death.

I'm not so much concern of her having a child out of wedlock, or having sex with someone she loves as that would be her choice, I'm more concern that what she would do will be put forth as an active betrayal of her family where from what I see is she is just trying to get home alive.

[deja vu]

Two or three days ago, before the GRRM outline reveal, I signed up for an account on this web site so that I could add my two cents on several issues, the most important of which (IMHO) is the end game for Sansa. It seems to me that the "vicious giant" that Sansa will overcome is not a person, but the urge towards and vicious cycle of revenge. I believe her role in the end will be to unite the Kingdom using the ability she has shown to empathize with and show compassion for some pretty dodgy characters. GRRM has said that he thinks about what happens after the war has been won, about how governing isn't necessarily compatible with "and they lived happily ever after." The story so far leaves plenty of reason to imagine that, once Spring comes, wars of revenge and recriminations will continue for centuries - and that's based just on what we've seen so far! On top of atrocities that have already happened, more are sure to come during TWOW. So GRRM has to think about whether he wants to end with Westeros patterned after the Balkans, with 1000 year old enmities tearing everything to pieces in near continuous warfare, or find a way to help overcome the need for revenge, uniting (more or less) Westerosi factions. Sansa's arc is grooming her for the role of healer/uniter.

Does that mean she marries King Jon? That would work.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

If we are going to say how different Stark sisters are in terms of their responses to danger, we see two very beautiful wolfish responds. The first one is to attack, and Arya is like that, but the second one when wolves get overpowered is to pull back and Sansa is someone who wonderfully mimics that. Sisters are different, but even their differences come from one source. And we see how Sansa loves her siblings from naming her children after her "dead" brothers, to finding strength in memory of Robb. Sansa from those 2 pages doesn't exist. And somehow people want to delete four books to push their arguments.

No one is deleting 4 books. Merely acknowledging the first book was written with a lot of this floating around.

[The Ned's Little Girl]

Why does everyone keep saying Jon and Sansa think of each other as brother and sister? They haven't really interacted in the series. We don't really know anything about their feelings for each other. Yes, Sansa calls Jon her bastard half-brother, because that's what she knows him to be. That doesn't mean she has sisterly feelings for him. Same goes for Jon.

Bran thinks of Jon as his bastard half-brother too, yet they have strong brotherly feelings for each other.

Robb points out to Jon that he can't be lord of Winterfell because he's bastard-born, yet they have strong brotherly feelings for each other.

So, Sansa is not the only one who thinks of Jon so.

Jon's memory of Sansa teaching him how to talk to girls seems to be a very fond memory for him, and is something a "sister" could easily be imagined doing for her brother. Sansa's memory of Jon when Myranda brings him up is a warm one also; she thinks how sweet it would be to see him again. It's clear they have happy memories of each other, even if they didn't interact as regularly as the other kids.

[Grail King]

Two or three days ago, before the GRRM outline reveal, I signed up for an account on this web site so that I could add my two cents on several issues, the most important of which (IMHO) is the end game for Sansa. It seems to me that the "vicious giant" that Sansa will overcome is not a person, but the urge towards and vicious cycle of revenge. I believe her role in the end will be to unite the Kingdom using the ability she has shown to empathize with and show compassion for some pretty dodgy characters. GRRM has said that he thinks about what happens after the war has been won, about how governing isn't necessarily compatible with "and they lived happily ever after." The story so far leaves plenty of reason to imagine that, once Spring comes, wars of revenge and recriminations will continue for centuries - and that's based just on what we've seen so far! On top of atrocities that have already happened, more are sure to come during TWOW. So GRRM has to think about whether he wants to end with Westeros patterned after the Balkans, with 1000 year old enmities tearing everything to pieces in near continuous warfare, or find a way to help overcome the need for revenge, uniting (more or less) Westerosi factions. Sansa's arc is grooming her for the role of healer/uniter.

Does that mean she marries King Jon? That would work.

I've always felt Sansa be either the peacemaker of the realm, or the QOT version of house Stark that helps in bringing her house back, that's what I hope any who.

[Sansa Snow]

Jon thinks of how Sansa told him about how he should speak to girls when he meets Ygritte and she thinks of him when she sees Yoren and hopes not all the night's watch are like that because if they are, she feels sorry for Jon. Then she also thinks how it would be nice to see him again as although he is only a half brother, he is all the family she has. They think of each other as family. It seems unlikely they will end up together: the women Jon is attracted to are very different personality wise and Sansa's romantic story seems to be leading elsewhere.

Of course they have some memories together. My point is just that we don't really know how these two people feel about each other.

Jon is attracted to these wildling women, because they are pretty much only women there where Jon is. I think Sansa has a lot of qualities that Jon would appreciate in a woman. The biggest reason I want these two together is, because they would be so good to each other.

[Gregor Clegane's head]

People using draft Sansa as a example of how Sansa is anti Stark is quite sad since it's very obvious GRRM scrapped it. Also Sansa's "betrayal" is so minor it's barely mentioned by anyone apart from Cersei, hell D&D didn't even include it in the show. If people can somehow read her last chapter in SOS and think she would ever betray her family for real is reading it wrong, she has nothing but love for her siblings and parents and misses them greatly.

[WeaselPie]

People using draft Sansa as a example of how Sansa is anti Stark is quite sad since it's very obvious GRRM scrapped it. Also Sansa's "betrayal" is so minor it's barely mentioned by anyone apart from Cersei, hell D&D didn't even include it in the show. If people can somehow read her last chapter in SOS and think she would ever betray her family for real is reading it wrong, she has nothing but love for her siblings and parents and misses them greatly.

Um.. Sansa's betrayals are pretty huge in both the book and the show. IMO.

Just because she didn't know what the outcome would be, and came to regret it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

[para]

And what political support would Sansa provide over and above that Jon would already have in the North? You don't marry where you are politically strong. But, where you may have problems. Jon would likely have strong political support from the North.

Okay, let me try this again because I am beginning to feel misunderstood:

You have one nuclear bomb, you give it to a friend for safekeeping. He takes that nuke and uses it to nuke you off the planet.

Now imagine being the grandson of a paranoid lunatic who once got stabbed literally in the back and you have a nuke and a friend. Will the scenario above occur to you in your justified(?) paranoid ramblings?

Click 'yes' for the obvious answer.

So will you give that nuke away or will you keep it and make sure that no ever, ever, ever gets their grabby hands on it?

Click 'keep' for the obvious answer.

Now imagine in place of a nuke a person through whom you could directly control about the half of Westeros because... yes, you could. (And yes, if push to came to shove people in the North might choose the Stark in Winterfell over the dragon king in the South. And that possibility would also certainly occur to Jon.)

See, it's not what Sansa can do for him but what could be done against him by using her and preventing that in a very effective way. The nuke in your hands is the one that is not in the hands of your enemies. And that has a lot of political worth.

[Mladen]

No one is deleting 4 books. Merely acknowledging the first book was written with a lot of this floating around.

Actually people are. And this entire thread where the argument is that Stark incest is possible due to that draft is wonderful example of how people are ready to disregard the narrative of five books for the theory of their choosing. Sansa is Stark as everyone else, and throughout the series, the written, published one, we see how Martin re-enforces that idea and how he is establishing her as what we would call a Stark, even though that is a big stretch given that last generation had so various characters. If you would ask me, Sansa was basically a lost girl who was made that way by conventions. Her desires, dreams, even her mistakes, all of that is rooted in certain septa and upbringing. At the same time, that doesn't mean she is worse than her siblings, or that she is less Stark than them. It just means she is different. And I would hardly say that other 5 of Stark kids are the same.

[OldGimletEye]

Okay, let me try this again because I am beginning to feel misunderstood:

You have one nuclear bomb, you give it to a friend for safekeeping. He takes that nuke and uses it to nuke you off the planet.

Now imagine being the grandson of a paranoid lunatic who once got stabbed literally in the back and you have a nuke and a friend. Will the scenario above occur to you in your justified(?) paranoid ramblings?

Click 'yes' for the obvious answer.

So will you give that nuke away or will you keep it and make sure that no ever, ever, ever gets their grabby hands on it?

Click 'keep' for the obvious answer.

Now imagine in place of a nuke a person through whom you could directly control about the half of Westeros because... yes, you could. (And yes, if push to came to shove people in the North might choose the Stark in Winterfell over the dragon king in the South. And that possibility would also certainly occur to Jon.)

See, it's not what Sansa can do for him but what could be done against him by using her and preventing that in a very effective way. The nuke in your hands is the one that is not in the hands of your enemies. And that has a lot of political worth.

Huh?

[Pod The Rod]

How is this thread still a thing? How?

INCEST IS A BAD THING PEOPLE. Especially among the Stark children!

If Sansa marries Jon Snow/ has a sexual encounter with him in any way, shape, or form, I will burn the books and bury the ashes with dung. Same goes for Arya, only I'd run the books through a shredder first.

[1234567]

Um.. Sansa's betrayals are pretty huge in both the book and the show. IMO.

Just because she didn't know what the outcome would be, and came to regret it, doesn't mean it didn't happen.

A bad decision or trusting the wrong people whilst being 11 does not really equal a betrayal. It sounds like the original Sansa had to choose between her husband and child or her family, a bloody hard choice by the sound of it.