Sansa will marry Jon Snow v2

[Le Cygne]

It's not a question of what GRRM would do. It's a question of whether it would be within Jon's and Sansa's characters to do so. And of course nobody can what will exactly happen. At best, people can just say what will probably happen. And I don't think it's likely to happen because 1) it's not going to make sense politically and 2) because I just don't see it consistent with their characters.

This. It's about the story, how the characters were written.

[Rhaechyll Targaryen]

Well, if its Sansa they better start now. Jon preference of his future wife's sister will become a problem otherwise.

Jon and Sansa might meet again before either knows for sure whether or not Arya is even alive. They have a lot to build on if they ever meet again and have been so changed by their individual experiences that I have to imagine both would be fascinated by what the other had to say. I can see how there would be a comfort just in seeing each other again and being in the presence of another Stark.

If anything is problematic I feel like it would be the reaction of Arya and possibly one or two other family members. I can see Arya becoming angry with Sansa all over again from past hurts and I can also see her feeling furious with Jon for wanting to be with someone like Sansa.

Out of the five planned main characters only Arya has become such an unimportant character in the actually published books, she doesn't have many POV chapters, she doesn't even appear in all the books, her chapters are never focused on her, no other POVs had any significant relationship with her, GRRM just lets her die somewhere randomly because now that Sansa took up her role she does not have a main role in narrative.

Not buying it.

I do not have any fundamental problem with Jon/Sansa but it is just a random crack ship like Jon and say Blacwood girl. Those Blacwoods ended up marrying a lot of significant people after all.

I thought Arya was in all five books? Sansa wasn't in ADWD.

[Ice Turtle]

I thought Arya was in all five books? Sansa wasn't in ADWD.

I was being sarcastic. Arya is in all books. She has many chapters and solid place in narrative, which is one of reasons why I disagree that Sansa took her place.

[Grail King]

Depends who the father is and her relationship with them.

Well at this point the canadates be LF, or HH, and Sansa wants neither, Tyrion is still alive that may rule out FAegon unless LF has the plan of disposing Tyrion which from the outline may not happen.

Yup, starting to feel pretty bad for Sansa.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

I thought Arya was in all five books? Sansa wasn't in ADWD.

She is, I think she has the most chapters in A Storm of Swords. Arya has been on a bit of a Hiatus in Braavos. She has 5 chapters between the last 2 books, the same as she had in total in the first book but there she appeared in her family's POVs. She has the most in A Storm of Swords of any character. Stats are here:

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/POV_character

Its weird but because of the gap between books people had gotten the impression there was a 'big three'. Arya was always up there. I think Bran will overtake Sansa and Cat as the books move to a conclusion.

Well at this point the canadates be LF, or HH, and Sansa wants neither, Tyrion is still alive that may rule out FAegon unless LF has the plan of disposing Tyrion which from the outline may not happen.

Yup, starting to feel pretty bad for Sansa.

I'm a Gendry fan Grail King, imagine how bad I feel! We'll get through it.

[teej6]

According to the outline, the big battle against the Others happens at the Wall.

Other than the war that Stannis will bring to the Capitol, I don't see why many of the Noble houses will be destroyed.

GRRM in a recent interview said he'd be killing away a lot of characters. Now maybe that doesn't mean the destruction of all the houses but I don't see how much of Westeros is going to be still standing after DwD 2.0 and the WW invasion.

[WeaselPie]

GRRM in a recent interview said he'd be killing away a lot of characters. Now maybe that doesn't mean the destruction of all the houses but I don't see how much of Westeros is going to be still standing after DwD 2.0 and the WW invasion.

I also think Westeros is in for a purge of epic proportions.

[Sansa Snow]

Why does everyone keep saying Jon and Sansa think of each other as brother and sister? They haven't really interacted in the series. We don't really know anything about their feelings for each other. Yes, Sansa calls Jon her bastard half-brother, because that's what she knows him to be. That doesn't mean she has sisterly feelings for him. Same goes for Jon.

[Le Cygne]

That's right there's not much going on, because the author never bothered to write it in 5/7 books. Contrast that with Arya and Jon thinking about each other all the time. If the letter is genuine, he changed the love to brother/sister, pretty simple.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Why does everyone keep saying Jon and Sansa think of each other as brother and sister? They haven't really interacted in the series. We don't really know anything about their feelings for each other. Yes, Sansa calls Jon her bastard half-brother, because that's what she knows him to be. That doesn't mean she has sisterly feelings for him. Same goes for Jon.

We are told about how they played together as children. When Jon pretended to be a Ghost, upset Bran, Sansa ran away screaming and Arya punched him while Robb laughed. Sounds like bonding

[WeaselPie]

We are told about how they played together as children. When Jon pretended to be a Ghost, upset Bran, Sansa ran away screaming and Arya punched him while Robb laughed. Sounds like bonding

Whoa, foreshadowing? :)

[Mad Madam Mim]

Well, he COULD marry Arya, but I think marrying Sansa makes more sense as Sansa has taken over the parts of the Arya story connected to the relationship with Jon. And there is all that foreshadowing, like the dress with black feathers.

Which parts of the story has Sansa taken over that are connected with Jon? The only loose connection between the characters of Arya and Sansa in GRRM's letter is Tyrion and even that link is tenuous and not related to Jon's story. GRRM's letter mentions needle which is a poignant moment in the bond between Jon and Arya, Sansa has not taken over that. I honestly do not see how 'GRRM intended for Jon/Arya relationship' can be used as evidence in support of a Jon/Sansa relationship. You are trying to bash a round peg into a square hole and the only way you can make it fit into your theory is by bashing and carving completly out of shape.

At the end of the day, GRRM originally intending for Jon and Arya to hook up is only evidence that GRRM originally intended Jon and Arya to hook up; things change, the author has moved on and it is not relevant to the story now.

Are you referring to the black dress with feathers that only appears on the show? Perhaps it foreshadows Sansa getting her jiggy on with Sam, who the hell knows with D and D :leer:

ETA: If we are bringing up possible clothing symbolism...

The dress she picked was lambswool, dark brown and simply cut, with leaves and vines embroidered around the bodice, sleeves, and hem in golden thread. It was modest and becoming, though scarce richer than something a serving girl might wear. Petyr had given her all of Lady Lysa’s jewels as well, and she tried on several necklaces, but they all seemed ostentatious. In the end she chose a simple velvet ribbon in autumn gold. When Gretchel fetched her Lysa’s silvered looking glass, the color seemed just perfect with Alayne’s mass of dark brown hair.

Now who do we know whose sigil is described as the colour of yellow autumn grass that Sansa also happens to be mooning over an 'unkiss' with I wonder?

Clue: It's not Jon.

[Snark_Tamer]

I arrived at a Sansa/Jon pairing when I was looking at the most logical War of the Roses counterparts, too. Sansa clearly makes the most logical Elizabeth of York counterpart and the options really are either Jon or Aegon. I see Aegon as a Blackfyre, but Henry Tutor was also from a bastard/female branch of the Lancaster family, so I think either Jon or Aegon would fit here and I DO think George's letter negates the biggest argument against a Jon/Sansa pairing (but they're siblings). I think Jon's feelings for Arya are truly sibling feelings, but Sansa saw Jon as a bastard and kept herself distant, looking down on him, where the other siblings all seemed to think of Jon as "brother".

[Sansa Snow]

We are told about how they played together as children. When Jon pretended to be a Ghost, upset Bran, Sansa ran away screaming and Arya punched him while Robb laughed. Sounds like bonding

Yes, but that doesn't say anything about their feelings for each other. It says that they sometimes (maybe very rarely) played together when they were children, just like cousins and childhood friends do.

[Le Cygne]

Are you referring to the black dress with feathers that only appears on the show? Perhaps it foreshadows Sansa getting her jiggy on with Sam, who the hell knows with D and D :leer:

I think I'll be laughing about this the rest of the day, thank you. :lol:

[Arya Targaryen]

I still don't see how Tyrion being married to Sansa qualifies as Sansa getting some plot points from Arya. If anything, the Ramsey-fArya can be interpreted as such, as someone mentioned it above.

If GRRM intended to end the series with King Jon and Queen Arya, I just don't see anything in the books so far that would contradict that idea. Especially, because ever since I read them, I always assumed it will be the end game, so it is definitely there between the lines.

Sure, a ton of things have changed, like Arya is much younger, and that leaves no romantic feelings between Jon and Arya, because she was 9! when they last met. It would be really creepy if Jon suddenly started to feel romantically about Arya. It won't happen, at least not until they meet.

What I really don't get, is why people keep saying that there is a too big of an age gap between the two of them. Jon is just 5 years older! that's not much. And as Jon is close to 17 in ADWD, that would leave Arya at 12 right now. By the time they meet, Arya will be at least 13 or more. And this is the book where Dany was wed to Drogo at 13, Lyanna was 13 at Harrenhal, when apperentely Rhaegar fell in love with her, and Sansa was 13 when she was wed to Tyrion.

[AryaNymeriaVisenya]

Whoa, foreshadowing? :)

'Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. “There are worse things than spiders and rats,” he whispered. “This is where the dead walk.” That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya’s hand.

When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood, Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb’s leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. “You stupid,” she told him, “you scared the baby,” but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laughing too'

Notice how Bran clings to Robb, and Arya holds his hand? Sansa runs away. Another hint at the original plot where she betrays them?

[Mad Madam Mim]

I think I'll be laughing about this the rest of the day, thank you. :lol:

Erect your fat pink masts and hop aboard the good ship SanSam ;)

[WeaselPie]

'Robb took them all the way down to the end, past Grandfather and Brandon and Lyanna, to show them their own tombs. Sansa kept looking at the stubby little candle, anxious that it might go out. Old Nan had told her there were spiders down here, and rats as big as dogs. Robb smiled when she said that. “There are worse things than spiders and rats,” he whispered. “This is where the dead walk.” That was when they heard the sound, low and deep and shivery. Baby Bran had clutched at Arya’s hand.

When the spirit stepped out of the open tomb, pale white and moaning for blood, Sansa ran shrieking for the stairs, and Bran wrapped himself around Robb’s leg, sobbing. Arya stood her ground and gave the spirit a punch. It was only Jon, covered with flour. “You stupid,” she told him, “you scared the baby,” but Jon and Robb just laughed and laughed, and pretty soon Bran and Arya were laughing too'

Notice how Bran clings to Robb, and Arya holds his hand? Sansa runs away. Another hint at the original plot where she betrays them?

An excellent passage. Also a nod at Ghost/Jon?

Sorry to be off topic, but that's great stuff! Thanks for posting that AryaNym.

[1234567]

Well at this point the canadates be LF, or HH, and Sansa wants neither, Tyrion is still alive that may rule out FAegon unless LF has the plan of disposing Tyrion which from the outline may not happen.

Yup, starting to feel pretty bad for Sansa.

There is still the chance that Sansa's first child will be a bastard as there is foreshadowing for it and her views on sex before marriage are now more along the lines of "so what". It may well be that she has a child with someone she loves. It looks like originally Sansa and her children would have been killed by Jaime, but this may well have changed to Cersei and her children's' death.