[TWoW Spoilers] Alayne I

[chrisdaw]

So we are given a taste of Corbray's skill at arms and let in on him having the shits with LF. Is he LF's man pretending to be his enemy or his enemy pretending to be his man?

Yohn knows Corbray is LF's man. If Corbray does something to mess with LF, say like killing Harry in the tournament, a favourite play of LF's, Yohn is going to think it was LF's doing. Especially if the words said at the gate between Harry and Alayne make it back to Yohn.

[the Scorpion Knight]

:idea:

Yeah I really liked Sansas "spice" in that chapter as well, Harry the Heir is a complete douche though as to be expected

I was acxtually surprised how much of a douche Harry is.

I really enjoyed that chapter. It's nice to finally have confirmation of which tapestries Cersei sent to Littlefinger. Hopefully the "Targaryen tapestries" theory will die now. :P

I just wish there'd been some reaction to news of events outside the Vale... Is no one talking about Aegon's invasion, Cersei's arrest, or Dany's war in Slaver's Bay?

I thought it looked like the mistakes were from the way it had been formatted. I'm pretty sure this chapter has been floating around since at least 2010, so it should have been edited properly by now.

this chapter confirm my suspicions the vale and not KL is aegon next and the fact that vale lords don't care does seem to ignite the idea.

I don't get what the controversy was. Sansa flirting and showing signs of a brain? Fetch the smelling salts!

...

for many people the idea that a woman is beautifil but she uses her brains first a controversy.

1) Okay, I usually think GRRM does a good job of making Littlefinger smart without making others look stupid, but c'mon -- the Vale is built aground the sale of agricultural goods; surely they understand the basic laws of supply and demand.

2) I have to assume Littlefinger is joking at the end there, because he can't seriously expect the Royces are going to sell off not just their surplus but the entirety of their winter grain reserve so that they'll need to buy grain themselves.

Sure, but that's because she knows this is guy is from the place she's supposedly from.

2) like I said i think Lf is building castles in the sky and underestimates everybody.

Aegon?

why do i thi the bronze yohn will invite him to the vale

Hmm, the tapestries, the darn tapestries. What do they mean.

Smart of LF to give them as a present to lord Nestor, since he of course couldn't resist to display tapestries from the Red Keep.

I think the gift is an stupid idea: what will hinder nestor one day from ROBBING LF? and such gift only encourage that idea.

Great point. It makes sense then that the Vale is seemingly oblivious to what's going on elsewhere. Littlefinger is definitely keeping his knowledge to himself for his own benefit.

I think LF is just as oblivious as most of the vale lords.

another thing: where is Oswell kettleblack (the father)?and why do i think he ratted out LF

[Lyanna Stark]

Lyn, however, is a huge question mark as of now. Is he on Littlefinger's side? Does he stand against him? I wonder where this might lead.

I believe TWoW will be Littlefinger's downfall, but I'm not really sure what characters will play a part in his demise. Sansa, obviously, but I could also see Lord Nestor, Lyn, Shadrich, or Waynwood and the other Lord Declarants be the ones putting a nail in his coffin.

Sansa has figured out that Lyn isn't completely loyal to Littlefinger, which is an interesting factoid.

The others Lords Declarants clearly don't like Littlefinger, but tolerate him at present. But yes, Lyn Corbray, Varys' little spy and Sansa-in-disguise are certainly a nice explosive little gathering.

Interesting as well was how well Sansa got along with Lothor Brune. He seemed to genuinely care and like for her, and she seemed friendly enough with him that she gave him a hug.

Oh and I think she will choose Lyn as her champion.

Good to learn what was the deal with tapestries.

Could be a good way to turn Lyn into *her* ally. A despicable ally to be sure, but he's kinda kickass despite being what he is. And he'd beat Harry into a pulp, too.

[Knight Of Winter]

Just read the chapter, here are some mumbled thoughts:

• Sansa generally has grown way more comfortable in her skin. Compared to previous Alayne chapters she is more much confident in herself and her abilities. Attagirl :thumbsup:
  
• she is learning the game. Fast. Whether to connect SR with Vale lords or to charm Harry, she's doing a great job out of it.
  
• she also appears to be more settled in Vale, at the moment. She almost seems to be at home, literally and metaphorically: she calls Randa friend, she successfully handles SR, she hugs Lothor Brune...
  
• all of the above have the unfortunate consequence of embracing Alayne persona more and more, at least outwardly - her correcting herself and thinking Lord Eddard instead of father was quite telling. Inwardly, however, there still seems to be plenty of old Sansa's compassion (for Ser Wallace) and desire to find good in everything: she e.g. tries to think how SR's future wife will love his hair
  
• Sansa's idea of bringing young Vale knight into Robert's service is pretty smart: it's a great way of connecting sickly SR to powerful Vale Houses and making them shareholders in SR's fate. The only liability here is Robert himself, who is not a person to command any respect or loyalty.
  
• is every young knight in Vale an uncultured buffoon?
  
• overall, I like Randa, although it's a bit creepy how she asks about LF's little finger from his daughter a second time.
  
• there are many theories saying Randa knows Alayne's true identity. This chapter doesn't have any clues towards it.
  
• it's also noteworthy how all of Randa's and Alayne's interactions are quite sexualized: all Randa talks about are potential husbands and sex (two knights in the courtyard, horse-face Waynwoods mothered by a mare, LF's little finger, Harry the Heir, Ser Lyn preferring plump sausages...). I'd wager it's her usual persona, but there's always a possibility she's fishing for something
  
• Harry the Arse, indeed. Well said, Lothor.
  
• it's confirmed: Ser Lyn is definitely dangerous and unstable.
  
• whatever "controversy" is about to occur in Alayne's POV, it hasn't happened yet. But maybe this chapter can give us more info for our speculations. Any ideas?
  

[Facebookless Man]

I really don't see how Sansa has "turned" into anything that she wasn't obviously going to become from her first appearance in aGoT. Some courtly intrigue, some courtly banter, Pride and Prejudice dialogue, big fucking deal. Good thing obviousy, it means she's comfortable enough to be herself again.

One thing though, maybe it's just me but her thoughts during her interaction with SR struck me as a lot more scornful and dark than seems to be the general perception. It pretty much convinced me she's in on the SR assassination plot.

[PatrickStormborn]

I think LF is just as oblivious as most of the vale lords.

LF at least seems to know about Daenerys. But you're right that he doesn't seem to have any idea about Aegon or Cersei's arrest.

[The Reckoner]

I thought Stannis's shadow demon threw Lyn Corbray out of a window at Storm's End? I'm horribly confused. Nice to see Sansa becoming a player in the game, but as others say it feels more isolated.

[Lord_Tyrell]

If Shadrick knows who Alayne is, how did he figure it out?

I thought that perhaps his remark was an ironic one, with him not yet having figured it out yet, though he's going to....

I think that most of the Vale Lords (and I think Myranda) are aware who Alayne really is. Harry clearly doesn't know, but I think Lady Waynewood does for sure.

[Bluetiger]

" Alayne swept down the tower stairs to enter the pillared gallery at the back of the Great Hall. Below her, serving men were setting up trestle tables for the evening feast, while their wives and daughters swept up the old rushes and scattered fresh ones. Lord Nestor was showing Lady Waxley his prize tapestries, with their scenes of hunt and chase. The same panels had once hung in the Red Keep of King’s Landing, when Robert sat the Iron Throne. Joffrey had them taken down and they had languished in some cellar until Petyr Baelish arranged for them to be brought to the Vale as a gift for Nestor Royce. Not only were the hangings beautiful, but the High Steward delighted in telling anyone who’d listen that they had once belonged to a king."

Goodbye Preston Jacobs' "Littlefinger Debt Scheme"

[Gibzit]

I thought Stannis's shadow demon threw Lyn Corbray out of a window at Storm's End? I'm horribly confused. Nice to see Sansa becoming a player in the game, but as others say it feels more isolated.

That was Cortany Penrose, Storm's End's Castellan.

[The Wolves]

So I bet Sansa also suggests something for Rickon's guards calling them "The Order of the Direwolves" or something.

[OldGimletEye]

Just read the chapter. I like that Sansa is turning into a bit of a smart ass, as I always enjoy a good smart ass. Hopefully, the Sansa smart assery will continue.

It's also good to see that Sansa is becoming more perceptive and cunning.

Finally, I think it's interesting that SR isn't naive. He knows something is up.

[Lord_Tyrell]

Am I completely alone in thinking this doesn't seem like it was written by George at all? Sooo many characters and random conversations. Sansa acting like she actually wants Harry, Myranda being hurt over Harry, a repetition of Sansa thinking of Robins lovely hair, Mya not knowing how to deal with Robin. Everything and everybody just seemed off to me.

The only reason I think she wants to marry Harry is that Littlefinger has beaten it into her head that the only way she can ever return to Winterfell is to marry him.

[Satin fetch me a cock!]

^^^^^ this^^^^

I have tried creating a new thread discussing this new chapter and it won't get approved. Someone had a thread in the general but it was locked by Ran.

That new chapter would have fit perfectly in AFFC OR ADWD. But at least we got something.

[TheHouseHB]

LF at least seems to know about Daenerys. But you're right that he doesn't seem to have any idea about Aegon or Cersei's arrest.

The only people who know about Aegon at this point are Tyrion, Dorne, Varys and Illyrio.

[Colonel Green]

this chapter confirm my suspicions the vale and not KL is aegon next and the fact that vale lords don't care does seem to ignite the idea.

That's a bit of a stretch. Aegon is nowhere near the Vale, nor does he have the naval capacity to go there. His shipping is just dumping his men in the Stormlands.

[Mark Antony]

Finally, I think it's interesting that SR isn't naive. He knows something is up.

Yeah I really felt bad for SR in this chapter

[Annara Snow]

Is the "controversial" chapter the one that was released today? Because there is a pretty impressive lemon cake reference in it...

Apparently yes, which is quite hilarious. Oh Elio... :D

Although at least it has to be said that most of the hyping and exaggerating was done by Vulture magazine and others.

I figured when we read the chapter we'd see how overhyped the whole thing has been and that it's not all that shocking or controversial, but I didn't realize just how right I would be, i.e. how non-controversial the chapter is.

And, as I observed in the OP it's so obvious he hadn't read "Mercy" when he said that.

[Lady Gwynhyfvar]

I've read it, and the first two things that spring to mind:

1) I love Sassy Sansa! :) :bowdown:

Sassy, clever, witty and bold. Maybe someone is surprised by this, but I thought that's how she was developing, you could see it in AFFC as well.

I particularly loved the line "Have you seen all those maids?", since it's the same thing I want to ask whenever some magazine or other proclaims someone "the most beautiful woman in the world", "sexiest man in the world" etc.

2) Is this really the chapter that Elio thought people would find controversial? :rofl:

Yes indeed, reposting his tweet from earlier on the subject here since this thread is moving fast:

"Basically just the sudden burgeoning appearance of Alayne's sexuality, and that that focus happens w/o reference to a certain other character."

So no inner thoughts about Sandor, though we can be sure they will arise when the actual tourney is taking place.

As far as Lyn Corbray, I think it's clear he's one to watch. His allegiance is purposefully put in question here. As I said upthread, he's most likely in the mix of Stark cousins in the Vale and I don't think we should underestimate that.

Personally I think Sansa will give her favor to Roland Waynwood, he was kind to her and made her laugh :)

[Gibzit]

The only people who know about Aegon at this point are Tyrion, Dorne, Varys and Illyrio.

And the entire small council.