3CityApache Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Passing out is practically out of question, as the co-pilot was breathing normally to the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 Apparently there had been regular psychological tests for pilots at Lufthansa in the past but this programme was cancelled. Of course all according to news media (in this case Spiegel). I stay with my opinion: Lufthansa will come out of this heavily damaged. As additional background for Non-Germans: Lufthansa and the pilots union have been fighting for over a year now and Germanwings was notorious for cost-reduction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The guy from the Vale Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I agree that the Cockpit union will probably be strengthened by these events. They can claim that Lufthansa is driving its pilots to suicide, with possibly massive consequences. The psychological test thing looks bad, but then again, other air lines had the same problem before. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 This is not the end of Lufthansa in any kind of way. No one can afford that to have the airline with the best safety record taken out of the transportation system. Second, by all accounts, the Lufthansa safety rules were followed in every way, including multiple psychological profile reviews of the pilot in training, and full safety checks of the plane itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I agree. The event itself is shocking, but that's not going stick to Lufthansa. If anything, it will be another niggling think on a long list of niggling things you worry about before you go to fly somewhere. And if you are really paranoid about flying, another reason not to fly. :) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 A different perspective on these "findings" here, by a former pilot and investigator that says it's much too early to make any declarations of anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 This is not the end of Lufthansa in any kind of way. No one can afford that to have the airline with the best safety record taken out of the transportation system. Second, by all accounts, the Lufthansa safety rules were followed in every way, including multiple psychological profile reviews of the pilot in training, and full safety checks of the plane itself.You work for Lufthansa?Anyway, Lufthansa is an airline I like to fly with but as someone who is flying at least once a month (often more) I can tell you that this is much more disturbing for me than anything else, be it technical failure, human error or the abstract risk of terrorism. I can "handle" all those risks but not losing trust in the pilots. And by the way, yes now I know that regular psychological tests AFTER initial training is not mandatory but to be honest, this is absolute ridiculous and scandalous, given the responsibility a pilot has! And yes, Lufthansa did nothing wrong rulewise but one can expect regular psychological tests from the "safest airline in the world" with the "best pilots in the world". I actually thought this already is part of the standard procedure. Hopefully it will be in the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 If anything, it will be another niggling think on a long list of niggling things you worry about before you go to fly somewhere. And if you are really paranoid about flying, another reason not to fly. :)Are you a frequent flyer? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bronn Stone Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 I strongly suspect that whoever came up with the idea to leave "Lufthansa" out of the name of "Germanwings" is getting quite a few discreet back-pats right now. I would expect the latter brand to evaporate soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 You work for Lufthansa?Anyway, Lufthansa is an airline I like to fly with but as someone who is flying at least once a month (often more) I can tell you that this is much more disturbing for me than anything else, be it technical failure, human error or the abstract risk of terrorism. I can "handle" all those risks but not losing trust in the pilots.And by the way, yes now I know that regular psychological tests AFTER initial training is not mandatory but to be honest, this is absolute ridiculous and scandalous, given the responsibility a pilot has!And yes, Lufthansa did nothing wrong rulewise but one can expect regular psychological tests from the "safest airline in the world" with the "best pilots in the world". I actually thought this already is part of the standard procedure.Hopefully it will be in the future. This is silly. Psychological tests are in no way shape or form the flawless silver bullet you seem to think they are. And this event, or events like it, are statistically almost non existent. Something like 3 million people a day fly in planes, i think over 3000 in the air at any given time. Have some perspective. And as has been mentioned, this is easy to prevent by simply requiring two people in the cockpit at all times, which is the standard in most of the world. it's tragic, no doubt, but it's nowhere even in the neighborhood of a game changer in any way shape or form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 I strongly suspect that whoever came up with the idea to leave "Lufthansa" out of the name of "Germanwings" is getting quite a few discreet back-pats right now. I would expect the latter brand to evaporate soon. Might happen. It's a budget line anyway with massive problems and was very often in the media in the last months due cost pressure, bad working conditions etc. basically your typical low cost airline. But hey as long as you can fly across Europe for a few bucks, who cares. Fuck that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arakan Posted March 26, 2015 Author Share Posted March 26, 2015 This is silly. Psychological tests are in no way shape or form the flawless silver bullet you seem to think they are. And this event, or events like it, are statistically almost non existent. Something like 3 million people a day fly in planes, i think over 3000 in the air at any given time. Have some perspective. And as has been mentioned, this is easy to prevent by simply requiring two people in the cockpit at all times, which is the standard in most of the world. it's tragic, no doubt, but it's nowhere even in the neighborhood of a game changer in any way shape or form.Why are psychological tests silly?Wow...we spent hundreds of billions in the avation sector because of ONE act of terrorism (which was tragic no doubt) and an very abstract risk of future terrorist acts (from a statistical pov) but having regular psychological tests for pilots who you trust your life with in the most absolute manner, is silly. Maybe you should get some perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Are you a frequent flyer? I used to fly for business every month or so. Now I only fly a couple of times a year. Why? What nugget of psychology did you think you saw when I talked about those niggling things you worry about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordfish Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Why are psychological Tests silly?Maybe you should get some perspective. I didn't say psychological tests were silly, just that they were not the end all be all you paint them to be, and that having some strong fear of a pilot deciding to commit suicide by plane is silly, since it's so statistically unlikely, and since this type of situation could not happen on most airliners in the world. Context. It matters. Wow we spent hundreds of billions in the avation sector because of ONE act of terrorism and an very abstract risk of future terrorist acts (from a statistical pov) but having regular psychological tests for pilots is silly. Because one irrational act justifies another? Additionally, creating unbreachable doors is a quantifiable, effective way of keeping people out of the cockpit, as is all too clear at the moment. The same thing can not be said of psychological testing being able to prevent something like this from happening. And all of this assumes based on incomplete information that that is what even happened here. Either way, it is, of course, your right to be afraid of whatever you please, no matter how irrational. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 A different perspective on these "findings" here, by a former pilot and investigator that says it's much too early to make any declarations of anything.This former pilot first says that it's too early to make declarations, but then goes on to make declarations about the Malaysian flight, which has even less info available. Why are psychological tests silly?Wow...we spent hundreds of billions in the avation sector because of ONE act of terrorism (which was tragic no doubt) and an very abstract risk of future terrorist acts (from a statistical pov) but having regular psychological tests for pilots who you trust your life with in the most absolute manner, is silly.Maybe you should get some perspective.So far, acquaintances of the co-pilot have been saying he was a happy person. How would a psychological test have stopped his alleged murder suicide? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castel Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 This former pilot first says that it's too early to make declarations, but then goes on to make declarations about the Malaysian flight, which has even less info available. So far, acquaintances of the co-pilot have been saying he was a happy person. How would a psychological test have stopped his alleged murder suicide? Don't depressed people often have idiosyncratic outer behavior? Also: perhaps a more sedate meeting with professionals is better than comments made by someone somewhere after a tragedy with a pile of bodies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Pepper Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Don't depressed people often have idiosyncratic outer behavior? Also: perhaps a more sedate meeting with professionals is better than comments made by someone somewhere after a tragedy with a pile of bodies? Mentally unstable people can fake any sort of outer behavior. It's not difficult. It's not like these people performing the psychological tests will have intimate knowledge of their typical behavior. ETA: I'd like to point out that I was responding to someone who is having a paranoid knee-jerk reaction about a tragedy, not making some broad argument about psychological testing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Altherion Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 And by the way, yes now I know that regular psychological tests AFTER initial training is not mandatory but to be honest, this is absolute ridiculous and scandalous, given the responsibility a pilot has!And yes, Lufthansa did nothing wrong rulewise but one can expect regular psychological tests from the "safest airline in the world" with the "best pilots in the world". I actually thought this already is part of the standard procedure.Hopefully it will be in the future.I think you are overreacting and overestimating the responsibility pilots have relative to other individuals. Our civilization is built around objects that either possess or store energies which, if improperly used, can easily kill hundreds of human beings. Think about various accidents in freight and passenger rail, buses, trucks, gas leaks and other such phenomena. Now, imagine how many people it would take to replicate such accidents through deliberate sabotage (it's usually just one well-placed individual) and how much worse the results would be (e.g. that train with over 1000 people crashing into the station barrier not at 26 km/hr, but at 100 km/hr). Pilots are among the most glamorous and well-paid of those who command high energy objects and their jobs certainly require a great deal of skill, but if we're talking about deliberate sabotage, they're far from the only ones who can inflict great damage and we cannot afford to conduct regular psychological tests on everyone who can. TLDR: Our society works because people almost never do such things. Testing for them is pretty futile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Theda Baratheon Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Don't depressed people often have idiosyncratic outer behavior? No. Not always. It's easy to fake being happy. Or to at least hide how miserable you are. There are tell-tale signs of someone who's got it really bad though; unwashed, tired looking ect - but not for all severely depressed individuals. This goes past just standard depression though, if this truly was a murder-suicide which seems very likely with all the facts then fuck this guy. I'm so disturbed by this. 149 passengers dead because of one man. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kikajon Posted March 26, 2015 Share Posted March 26, 2015 Still I wonder what might have passed to the mind of that wretched man. Was he really aware of killing all those innocent people?Did he realize it at the end? I can't believe he was totally lucid all the time.There were babies too. I can't think he was in his wits, really I mean.Shocking.All those families will never be able to accept a tragedy like this.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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