Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D: To Kill a Mockingbird

[Bastard of Boston]

I can't remember, but wasn't the flare redundant by that point? Or, there was another reason why it became a factor. The real challenge was figuring out where the portal would open on the planet, and Simmons had already known where to go before the flare, no? Had she not already been on her way there, the flare would've been pointless because she'd be too far away...?

[felice]

No, the attempt to get to the calculated opening failed due to the unexpectedly wide canyon. The one with the flare opening nearby was a lucky coincidence.

[Jon AS]

My understanding is that he didn't actually want Coulson dead, in fact Malick admonishes him for sending the guys after Coulson at all. The plan was for Coulson to escape and remember that Ward had said something about a portal, which led Fitz and Simmons into the trap. 

Oh, yeah, that made it extra stupid. Either kill him or don't, but don't half-ass it by wasting manpower. Ward's goons must just love working for him.

We also spent an inordinate amount of time rehashing why exactly Ward is this nemesis to team Coulson. What was that about? The writers being worried that Ward isn't as great and memorable a villain as they like to pretend? Because I'm with them on that, but I think the solution is to write him off the show, not waste more screentime trying to build him up.

 

The more I think about the episode, the less I like it. The needless fridging of Rosalind is followed up by taking out the last known character from the ACTU, so that entire plot has essentially been the show spinning its wheels until it could get back to Hydra. I applauded the show for tying many disparate threads together recently, but I think I'm changing my mind on that, too: if everything is just about Hydra, it makes the show feel insular and small (and also kind of behind the times, the rest of the MCU was done with Hydra after the opening of AoU).

Speaking of insular and small: Daisy's superteam consists of three people, only one of whom was introduced this year, and he has not been pushed as a potential love interest. Anyone want to give odds on the new guy making it to the second half of the season?

[The BlackBear]

They did say they needed Coulson alive, and Ward just said he was trying to 'put him through his paces' so maybe he did it intentionally? Either way useless goons are a staple of the genre.

My issue with these storylines is I want the bad guys to succeed too much, but they're doomed from the start.

Also the SHIELD team only had two other Inyumans? One of whom was an original Inhuman.

[sifth]

I have to say, Ward has become my favorite villain in the MCU. I don't know when this happened, but it's strange how a person with no powers can still be so awesome.

[Red Tiger]

I have to say, Ward has become my favorite villain in the MCU. I don't know when this happened, but it's strange how a person with no powers can still be so awesome.

I do, but that's for a different thread

[Corvinus85]

Also the SHIELD team only had two other Inyumans? One of whom was an original Inhuman.

Between Lash and the ATCU, SHIELD's available pool of recruitable Inhumans ran dry quickly. For now at least.

[Jaxom 1974]

 

On another note, I have to wonder if SHIELD will tie in with the new Cap movie. So far, SHIELD not only had some ties with each Marvel movie (except Ant-man),

SHIELD was present in Ant Man, just at the beginning.  Hank Pym was an agent in the 80s, working for Peggy Carter...

 

The episode...uhhhhh...I'm torn.  Frankly I don't know that I mind Hydra, but the way they've dealt with them...that's just bonkers...and I'm still sick to death of Ward.  It's odd that the show quality is higher than ever, but at the same time, the storylines are ultimately "Meh".  And the absolute lack of acknowledgement of Fury's existence and the fact that he's flying around in an old Helicarrier and is technically the actual head of SHIELD still?  What's that about?  I don't know what that bugs me, but it does.

[Corvinus85]

SHIELD was present in Ant Man, just at the beginning.  Hank Pym was an agent in the 80s, working for Peggy Carter...

 

The episode...uhhhhh...I'm torn.  Frankly I don't know that I mind Hydra, but the way they've dealt with them...that's just bonkers...and I'm still sick to death of Ward.  It's odd that the show quality is higher than ever, but at the same time, the storylines are ultimately "Meh".  And the absolute lack of acknowledgement of Fury's existence and the fact that he's flying around in an old Helicarrier and is technically the actual head of SHIELD still?  What's that about?  I don't know what that bugs me, but it does.

I was talking about this show not being tied to Ant-man. I guess I should call it AoS, not SHIELD. I suppose you could say that Ant-man was kinda tied to the Agent Carter show.

And I agree with you about Fury. 

[RumHam]

  And the absolute lack of acknowledgement of Fury's existence and the fact that he's flying around in an old Helicarrier and is technically the actual head of SHIELD still?  What's that about?  I don't know what that bugs me, but it does.

I don't think Fury is the actual head of Shield, he's just a guy now. Apparently he still kept in touch with Coulson. That helicarrier thing was just a really weak tie-in. If the movie people actually wanted to play off the show they could have, but it really seems like the movie branch doesn't give a fuck about the TV branch, and so the tie-ins have always been incredibly one sided. The show basically just said "hey remember when Fury came to the rescue in that helicarrier? Well we helped. Off screen." 

Don't even get me started on why Coulson is still pretending to be dead. Whedon even came out and said that as far as the movies are concerned he was never resurrected. 

[Jaxom 1974]

I don't think Fury is the actual head of Shield, he's just a guy now. Apparently he still kept in touch with Coulson. That helicarrier thing was just a really weak tie-in. If the movie people actually wanted to play off the show they could have, but it really seems like the movie branch doesn't give a fuck about the TV branch, and so the tie-ins have always been incredibly one sided. The show basically just said "hey remember when Fury came to the rescue in that helicarrier? Well we helped. Off screen." 

Don't even get me started on why Coulson is still pretending to be dead. Whedon even came out and said that as far as the movies are concerned he was never resurrected. 

I can't see Fury as "just a guy" after events in AoU and how they came to the assistance of Sokovia...and having the helicarrier and all, it can't be possible for him to have been viewed as anything other than the head of a reborn SHIELD, I would think.

As to the second part, that Whedon holds a view such as that, it just undercuts the entire premise...dumb as it might have been initially...they should have simply done SHIELD with established Marvel SHIELD folks who hadn't been seen yet, Quartermain and the like...

[sifth]

I don't think Fury is the actual head of Shield, he's just a guy now. Apparently he still kept in touch with Coulson. That helicarrier thing was just a really weak tie-in. If the movie people actually wanted to play off the show they could have, but it really seems like the movie branch doesn't give a fuck about the TV branch, and so the tie-ins have always been incredibly one sided. The show basically just said "hey remember when Fury came to the rescue in that helicarrier? Well we helped. Off screen." 

Don't even get me started on why Coulson is still pretending to be dead. Whedon even came out and said that as far as the movies are concerned he was never resurrected. 

Lucky for us Whedon isn't directing anymore Marvel films. Don't get me wrong I love the man, but he can be stubborn at times.

[RumHam]

I can't see Fury as "just a guy" after events in AoU and how they came to the assistance of Sokovia...and having the helicarrier and all, it can't be possible for him to have been viewed as anything other than the head of a reborn SHIELD, I would think.

As to the second part, that Whedon holds a view such as that, it just undercuts the entire premise...dumb as it might have been initially...they should have simply done SHIELD with established Marvel SHIELD folks who hadn't been seen yet, Quartermain and the like...

Well I think the idea is he was working with Coulson to rebuild and staff the helicarrier. Not that he's running another version of Shield. The show made it pretty clear he was promoting Coulson to director. But if you're right then there were three different Shields running around at one point. 

 

Lucky for us Whedon isn't directing anymore Marvel films. Don't get me wrong I love the man, but he can be stubborn at times.

Well I assumed that wasn't his call. Wasn't it his idea to revive Coulson to being with? I thought he was just being honest about how the marvel movie people don't give a fuck about the shows continuity wise. Which fits with those rumors about Feige and Perlmutter hating each other. 

[sifth]

Well I think the idea is he was working with Coulson to rebuild and staff the helicarrier. Not that he's running another version of Shield. The show made it pretty clear he was promoting Coulson to director. But if you're right then there were three different Shields running around at one point. 

Well I assumed that wasn't his call. Wasn't it his idea to revive Coulson to being with? I thought he was just being honest about how the marvel movie people don't give a fuck about the shows continuity wise. Which fits with those rumors about Feige and Perlmutter hating each other. 

I thought he said, as far as he was concerned Coulson was dead, not Marvel. If I recall it was Joss Whedon's idea to kill the character in the first place?

[DaveSumm]

I like Coulson, but I have often thought it'd be far less problematic if they just cast a fresh bunch of characters for the show. I thought that Whedon was against his revival, but helped out anyway, then had a whinge that Winter Soldier kinda blew the whole premise out of the water.......I'm really hoping the Russo's are more open to tie-in's in the future. The show's definitely improved but I still don't know if I'd watch if I knew it was never gonna connect up with anything.

[RumHam]

 

I thought he said, as far as he was concerned Coulson was dead, not Marvel. If I recall it was Joss Whedon's idea to kill the character in the first place?

You're right, he did say as far as he's concerned.

As far as I’m concerned, in this movie, Coulson’s dead. If you come back in the sequel and say Coulson’s alive, it’s like putting fucking John Gielgud in the sequel to Arthur. It mattered that he’s gone. It’s a different world now. And you have to run with that.

But here's what he had to say about it later on:

Joking aside, Whedon went on to stat that: “It’s a weird little yes and no. As far as I’m concerned in the films, yes he’s dead. In terms of the narrative of these guys [The Avengers] his loss was very important. When I created the television show, it was sort of on the understanding that this can work and we can do it with integrity, but these Avengers movies are for people to see the Avengers movies and nothing else. It would neither make sense nor be useful to say ‘Oh and by the way remember me? I died!’”

“I think actually the movie people were a little bit cross about the TV show,” he continues. “They were sort of like ‘Well you can have this but not this. And this but not that.’ It’s complicated enough as it is without me adding another layer of complication. We also created a TV show called S.H.I.E.L.D. right before they made a movie where they destroyed S.H.I.E.L.D.. So everybody’s having a GREAT time!”

http://www.flickeringmyth.com/2015/04/joss-whedon-on-agent-coulson-as-far-as-im-concerned-in-the-films-yes-hes-dead.html

[Bastard of Boston]

If Joss hates the fact that Coulson was resurrected, it's his own fault. He's kind of the one who did it.

[Vels]

There was a brief Ant-Man tie-in. In the first episode Fitz mentioned that he investigated Pym-tech as a possible explanation for what happened to Simmons. Not much, but it was there!

Also - I'm predicting Coulson has some sort of amnesia since he hit his head when he landed on the planet.

[felice]

I'm really hoping the Russo's are more open to tie-in's in the future.

I'd rather they split the TV and cinematic universes apart completely; attempting to work in a shared universe has been a dismal failure, and I don't see any chances of that improving whoever's in charge. The movies are a massive anvil around the neck of the show, and the show adds nothing to the movies. Recast the Avengers, have them show up whenever appropriate, and ignore any future movie developments. Maybe even put in the occasional flashbacks showing past events happening differently from the movie versions. And integrate the Netflix shows more strongly with either the movies or the Shield shows; they could go either way.

[Corvinus85]

I'd rather they split the TV and cinematic universes apart completely; attempting to work in a shared universe has been a dismal failure, and I don't see any chances of that improving whoever's in charge. The movies are a massive anvil around the neck of the show, and the show adds nothing to the movies. Recast the Avengers, have them show up whenever appropriate, and ignore any future movie developments. Maybe even put in the occasional flashbacks showing past events happening differently from the movie versions. And integrate the Netflix shows more strongly with either the movies or the Shield shows; they could go either way.

Disagree. AoS may have been cancelled by the end of season 1, if not for the excellent tie ins with the events in The Winter Soldier. The show is at its strongest now, but it can always benefit from more proper ties with the movies, such as the one I mentioned.