Fate of Jon Snow might differ from Books

[Kamin]

I am very suprised nobody seems to have picked up on this before. If my suspicions are correct then Jon is the only character that can not be killed off permanently. At least for another 2 - 3 books. I will do my best to back up my thesis.

Observation #1: A Song of Ice and Fire is the story of Jon Sno and his rise to becoming the savior and/or King. My reasoning for this is based on the books and D&D's interpretation of the books as well as the detective work done by many to figure out who Jon's true parantage really is. Here is my summerized breakdown.

The Title

The title of the series is A Song of Ice and Fire. Lets take the first part "A Song." In medival times A Song is something a Minstrel would perform which is either and actual song/melody or the retelling of stories for the Lords and Ladies along with the King and/or Queen. Most "Songs" are memorialized tales of great or noteworthy deeds by Knights, Lords, or Kings. In the context of the series title "A Song" could be GRRM's way of retelling "The Story."

Now lets look at the second part "Ice and Fire." If indeed R+L=J then Jon is of the North thanks to his mother L and has dragon's blood thanks to R which makes him "Ice and Fire." If correct then "A Song of Ice and Fire" is The Story of Jon Sno but its not a sexy title so GRRM cleverly titled it A Song of Ice and Fire. Many will argue that the series title refers to the battle yet to come between the WW's and Dragon's or some other simplistic answer, but for me, those are easy conclusion to jump to and as GRRM has demonstration in his writings... the simplest answers are the incorrect ones. GRRM has stated he loaths the common archetype's and may very well kill him off permanently, but not until the title of the series is fullfilled. As of yet Jon hasn't done anything to warrent a song or story being told about him, but his story isn't fully written.

Observation #2:

For the watch...: In Jon's final POV chapter of ADWD Wick sliced Jon's neck, blocked the second attack, Marsh burried his dagger into Jon's belly and when Jon pulled it free the wound was "smoking" in the cold night air. He didn't feel the fourth attack. All he felt was the cold Air. D&D as well as Kit accidently spoiled a very little bit of what is going to happen with Jon next season at the University Q&A Session. Jon will indeed survive the assassination attempt and will be a warg. Wether it will be in line with the next book or not we will have to wait and see. I believe GRRM gave D&D a look at whats ahead and will use the next book as guideance but still take creative license when they feel its necessary. If you watched the whole Q&A, D&D tell the story how they were able to get GRRM on board with the TV development. GRRM asked them who they thought Jon's real parents are and when they answered him GRRM came on board. If you take a step back and think for a moment.... Why would GRRM choose that question above all others? Answer.... It's "The Story of Jon Sno" aka "A Song of Ice and Fire"

I could be wrong, but hey.... maybe I'm right :)

[Khorkalba]

I am very suprised nobody seems to have picked up on this before.

Lots and lots of people have picked up on all of this.

D&D have been telling that story about how they got the job pretty much since the show started. I wish they'd kept it to themselves personally, because it kind of removes all doubt about Jon's importance as a character.

[ErasmusF]

I am very suprised nobody seems to have picked up on this before. If my suspicions are correct then Jon is the only character that can not be killed off permanently. At least for another 2 - 3 books. I will do my best to back up my thesis.

Observation #1: A Song of Ice and Fire is the story of Jon Sno and his rise to becoming the savior and/or King. My reasoning for this is based on the books and D&D's interpretation of the books as well as the detective work done by many to figure out who Jon's true parantage really is. Here is my summerized breakdown.

The Title

The title of the series is A Song of Ice and Fire. Lets take the first part "A Song." In medival times A Song is something a Minstrel would perform which is either and actual song/melody or the retelling of stories for the Lords and Ladies along with the King and/or Queen. Most "Songs" are memorialized tales of great or noteworthy deeds by Knights, Lords, or Kings. In the context of the series title "A Song" could be GRRM's way of retelling "The Story."

Now lets look at the second part "Ice and Fire." If indeed R+L=J then Jon is of the North thanks to his mother L and has dragon's blood thanks to R which makes him "Ice and Fire." If correct then "A Song of Ice and Fire" is The Story of Jon Sno but its not a sexy title so GRRM cleverly titled it A Song of Ice and Fire. Many will argue that the series title refers to the battle yet to come between the WW's and Dragon's or some other simplistic answer, but for me, those are easy conclusion to jump to and as GRRM has demonstration in his writings... the simplest answers are the incorrect ones. GRRM has stated he loaths the common archetype's and may very well kill him off permanently, but not until the title of the series is fullfilled. As of yet Jon hasn't done anything to warrent a song or story being told about him, but his story isn't fully written.

Observation #2:

For the watch...: In Jon's final POV chapter of ADWD Wick sliced Jon's neck, blocked the second attack, Marsh burried his dagger into Jon's belly and when Jon pulled it free the wound was "smoking" in the cold night air. He didn't feel the fourth attack. All he felt was the cold Air. D&D as well as Kit accidently spoiled a very little bit of what is going to happen with Jon next season at the University Q&A Session. Jon will indeed survive the assassination attempt and will be a warg. Wether it will be in line with the next book or not we will have to wait and see. I believe GRRM gave D&D a look at whats ahead and will use the next book as guideance but still take creative license when they feel its necessary. If you watched the whole Q&A, D&D tell the story how they were able to get GRRM on board with the TV development. GRRM asked them who they thought Jon's real parents are and when they answered him GRRM came on board. If you take a step back and think for a moment.... Why would GRRM choose that question above all others? Answer.... It's "The Story of Jon Sno" aka "A Song of Ice and Fire"

I could be wrong, but hey.... maybe I'm right :)

I think you're right, but I don't think your second spoiler is an accurate portrayal of the exchange that people read as an accidental spoiler. It was a sex joke. D&D were saying they would do anything for viewership, even make Kit make love to a direwolf.

[Spilt Pea Soup]

They in no way confirmed he's a warg. It was a joke. Watch the clip, and disbelieve the hype.

[The Man from Nowhere]

Can't see Jon warning in to Ghost in the show. That would truly be ass-pulling material with no set up, and they have been pretty obvious with set ups before. More likely waking to have the blue eyes of the others or Mel will ressurect him. My interpretation of the icicles in the preview for the finale shouts the Wall and Jon Snow so I think we will see Mel back at the Wall. However I would love to see the others ressurect him, which would make the whole 'come at me crow' scene more relevant and significant.

[Kamin]

The exchange at the University Q&A could have been comedy for the audience, but I think my theory on the title of the series is valid. As Sam said, "Jon always comes back"

[jet199]

Jon always comes back ... but as what?

[~DarkHorse~]

They in no way confirmed he's a warg. It was a joke. Watch the clip, and disbelieve the hype.

Really? It came out funny but I read Dan's response as him hinting at Jon being a Warg.

[acacia]

If Ghost dies, I quit.

[yanmaodao]

I agree that Jon most likely isn't a warg on the show because of the lack of setup, but there's the possibility that they avoided the setup due to a desire not to spoil. If Jon suddenly had a wolf dream in an earlier episode this season, many people would know exactly what that meant, and from there it would spread and the mystery would be ruined. The best way to avoid this is to use a resurrection method (assuming he's resurrected) that doesn't require that kind of buildup, but there's a small possibility that the warging aspect is too crucial to sidestep, and the writers alas couldn't think of a clever way to get around the spoiler problem without dropping it on us at all once when the time comes.

[NymeriaWarriorQueen]

I agree that Jon most likely isn't a warg on the show because of the lack of setup, but there's the possibility that they avoided the setup due to a desire not to spoil. If Jon suddenly had a wolf dream in an earlier episode this season, many people would know exactly what that meant, and from there it would spread and the mystery would be ruined. The best way to avoid this is to use a resurrection method (assuming he's resurrected) that doesn't require that kind of buildup, but there's a small possibility that the warging aspect is too crucial to sidestep, and the writers alas couldn't think of a clever way to get around the spoiler problem without dropping it on us at all once when the time comes.

If Jon Snow's eyes look like he is "warging" then that is all viewers need to know what is happening. They've already setup how "warging" works with Bran and Orthell. Additionally, they could show a preview of Bran doing it to remind people.

[God-Emperor of Yi Ti]

Look, he's gonna get stabbed and then revived because of Mel's Shireen sacrifice. it's obvious.

i don't think that is likely at all. It would be a very ambigous hero that only is [re] alive becuase of the fiery death of a young girl.

there are plenty on anti-heros in this book series, but it seems that Jon Snow is the only true hero. Martin would be an ass to make his existence contingent on the Red Priestess's sorcery.

[Spilt Pea Soup]

Really? It came out funny but I read Dan's response as him hinting at Jon being a Warg.

Yeah? Well, that *would* make sense. Definitely where the book is headed. I'd be all about it. And I think audience will know exactly what is happening.

[Shitmouth the Wise]

Jon and the Wildlings waiting for Thorne to open the gates also mirrored Dany and the Dothraki wanting access to qarth in season 2. Both are leading a 'barbaric' group and their only chance at survival is getting past the gates. People keep moaning about the 'North side of the wall' scene being illogical but I think it was deliberately set up to parallel Dany and the Dothraki (especially with how Dany's arc will end this season) and Jon's relations with the Wildlings.

As an aside, the guy who does the 'Ask the Maester' articles on Grantland has a pretty reasonable answer to the complaint you mention, which is that it made more logistical sense (from the Nights Watch perspective) to have the wildlings pass through the tunnel into Castle Black to take census and confiscate their weapons, as it happened in the book. The obvious difference is that in the show they were coming from Hardhome by sea, but it's actually a slightly shorter trip if the ships drop them off north of the Wall and they walk from there. We just have to overlook that they were desperately trying to escape the White Walkers, I guess...

[Eldric Storm]

why are so many thinking that Mel will try to revive Jon. I think she'll sacrifice Shireen to awaken the dragons like she saw in the flames.

[HouseCaul]

FTW in some form is definitely going to happen. They’ve been hitting the Olly disapproval stuff too hard this season (particularly in the last few episodes) for it not to reach some kind of climax. Whether or not the attempt is successful remains to be seen. I agree it would be a little weird to end on that cliffhanger when people will eventually find out via production news whether or not Kit will be returning.

I’m not buying that Mel is going to be back at Castle Black this episode. The typical timelines in a GoT episode don’t usually span enough to allow for that. Plus, there was that line from Mel about a vision where she saw herself walking on the battlements of Winterfell. I’m thinking she’ll end up there after the siege (and possibly the death of Stannis).

If Thoros / Beric / BwB were in the book to set up the resurrection of LSH, then I gotta believe they kept that in the show for some kind of big resurrection. It’s seems unlikely that LSH is going to be in the show…so perhaps that was a early setup for Jon’s resurrection at the hands Thoros or Mel? If so, it’d probably happen at the beginning of S6, I’d guess. Maybe Davos takes Jon’s body to WF. Or maybe BwB resurfaces in next season’s premiere. Or maybe it’s as simple as Jon isn’t killed but wounded.

[JonisHenryTudor]

Look, he's gonna get stabbed and then revived because of Mel's Shireen sacrifice. it's obvious.

I am pretty sure you are being sarcastic.

Or maybe not.

But I thought from the promo that it is clear that the sacrifice, at least in Mel's view, lifted the storm.

[Attitude]

I think it happens similar to the books:

Jon gets stabbed...the screen goes black and all we here are grunts and "For the Watch". End of the episode THEN next season we see them about to burn Jon...just like they did Maester Aemon and then he comes back to life with the fire.

Yeah because we already know that Jon is going to be burned in tWoW. No we don't! Stop trying to make theories canon. This is all speculation and don't talk about it like it's true (in the books). Because it isn't (yet).

Do you really think Jon is dead in the books? It's no different, he'll get stabbed and at most we'll get a clue of how he's not dead compared to the books...probably not though.

This is the most reasonable reply I've seen in an entire page.

If Jon Snow's eyes look like he is "warging" then that is all viewers need to know what is happening. They've already setup how "warging" works with Bran and Orthell. Additionally, they could show a preview of Bran doing it to remind people.

I'm pretty sure that Bran isn't in this season. He, hodor, Osha etc. got a year off.

Imo there aren't many options for both the books and the show. The options are:

1. Jon will die

2. Jon will simply survive (maybe heavily wounded)

3. Jon will be resurrected by Melisandre

4. Jon will warg in ghost

5. Jon will become an other / wight / the NK.

If you look at these there aren't many options and I think that they will keep both the books and the show pretty much the same when it comes to JS (the main story so far is the same, just some different people moving to different places).

If you use that I think you can eliminate at least 1 and 3. Jon being dead would end is arc, that's not going to happen. Resurrection by Melisandre is possible in the books because she is there (but we have no clue she can resurrect people) and in the show it's nearly impossible because Mel isn't near him.

Leaving options 2,4 and 5. IMO 5 isn't an option because the others are the enemy's of the people and Jons entire story arc is about how he will protect the realm from them. Becoming one would fuck this story up. Option 4 only makes sense if he will have an oppurtunity to get back into his body again, because his story going on for 2 more seasons/books as a direwolf doesn't make sense. Which leaves option 2: he will survive.

I don't say he won't warg into Ghost, but that would be only a temporarily 'solution.' Jon as an UnJon, a direwolf of as a other/wight/NK doesn't make sense for the rest of the story.

So yeah, IMO the fate will not differ. It will be the same: He will get stabbed and he will simply survive (even if that sounds lame).

[Lord Friendzone]

Yeah because we already know that Jon is going to be burned in tWoW. No we don't! Stop trying to make theories canon. This is all speculation and don't talk about it like it's true (in the books). Because it isn't (yet).

This is the most reasonable reply I've seen in an entire page.

I'm pretty sure that Bran isn't in this season. He, hodor, Osha etc. got a year off.

Imo there aren't many options for both the books and the show. The options are:

1. Jon will die

2. Jon will simply survive (maybe heavily wounded)

3. Jon will be resurrected by Melisandre

4. Jon will warg in ghost

5. Jon will become an other / wight / the NK.

If you look at these there aren't many options and I think that they will keep both the books and the show pretty much the same when it comes to JS (the main story so far is the same, just some different people moving to different places).

If you use that I think you can eliminate at least 1 and 3. Jon being dead would end is arc, that's not going to happen. Resurrection by Melisandre is possible in the books because she is there (but we have no clue she can resurrect people) and in the show it's nearly impossible because Mel isn't near him.

Leaving options 2,4 and 5. IMO 5 isn't an option because the others are the enemy's of the people and Jons entire story arc is about how he will protect the realm from them. Becoming one would fuck this story up. Option 4 only makes sense if he will have an oppurtunity to get back into his body again, because his story going on for 2 more seasons/books as a direwolf doesn't make sense. Which leaves option 2: he will survive.

I don't say he won't warg into Ghost, but that would be only a temporarily 'solution.' Jon as an UnJon, a direwolf of as a other/wight/NK doesn't make sense for the rest of the story.

So yeah, IMO the fate will not differ. It will be the same: He will get stabbed and he will simply survive (even if that sounds lame).

4 is much better.If he is just wounded...it's kinda lame.He was already wounded by Ygritte's arrows and I don't want to repeat it again.

[mrs snow]

Yeah, I'm pretty sure Mel will give him the Kiss of Life.... a she's admitted to snogging him for the show, and that hasn't happened yet.

i wondered if anyone else noticed that!!! Made me go , hang on a minute... she never kissed him in that scene!! Something to look forward to perhaps?