Cas Stark Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Gratuitous means unecessary. Having made her pregnant it was necessary to kill the heir. They made her pregnant for the express purpose of killing her, which is gratuitoius. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gargarax Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 So, I've been thinking a lot about the Larry/Myrcella scene, and I think I finally pinned down why it bothers me so much. It's not that it's badly acted (though it is) or that it's badly written (though it is) it's that, because of the poisoning, the specifics of the scene don't matter at all. Myrcella could have had the exact opposite reaction to Jaime's revelation. She could have been shocked, said she hated him, said she never wanted to see him again. The end result is that she dies and Jaime is sad. She could have been confused, disgusted, in denial. None of it matters because the writers had already planned out her death. But they chose the reaction that would be the most nonsensical reaction for the character to have (really, she's thrilled about being a child of incest who is now pretty much in constant danger of scorn and death, just like her brother the king) because it provided a cheap sense of false hope right before they killed off her character for shock value. It's the definition of lowest common denominator television. Good point - I really don't understand that a show with that kind of budget has writers that do stuff like this. This is one of the worst tv tropes ever, and there is no point to it at all. All the good guys dying have family scenes or background reveals before they die, all villains become super-villains just before they die. If you wrote shit like that in a creative writing course, they would kick you out. But apparently, it's totes okay for screenwriting ... My new rant: Compare Jon's stabbing with the stabbing of Caesar in "Rome". That scene was extremely well done, very dramatic, very well choreographed and directed. Jon's stabbing was the most uninspired scene of this kind I have ever seen. It's how a stoned teenager would direct that scene, which brings me to my real rant: Why do we have bad directors on top of bad writers? I mean, what the fu ...? I've directed like three plays in my life, and the worst scenes they had (and I'm sure many were bad) were more thought through than half the scenes on GoT. As a good director, you can make decent scenes out of bad writing, at least when you have such good actors to work with. But no, the directing is lazy like shit. Rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I don't remember her thinking about revenge on Stannis at all in AFfC. Maybe she does, but that's not her character. I just checked (got my books back, yay!) and Brienne thinks A LOT about Renly but not even ONCE about Stannis except when she says he was right about the Lannisters kids being bastards after she sees Renly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Fevre Dream Posted June 16, 2015 Author Share Posted June 16, 2015 Yeah, good riddance to Jaqen II. That was clever, but I could have lost II mid season and gotten III back. That fucking outfit is almost as bad as Sansa in the feathers and the necklace. Did I mention that costume designer needs a walk of shame down broadway forced to wear all of her worst creations for GOT? And be driven out of the costume union if there is such a thing? Also now another jaqen can pop up in Oldtown if need be and it won't matter, cause there is a neverending supply of them. I think we have figured ONE THING OUT.......Jaqen IS the entirety of The Faceless Men. Well, him and all the little girls he can round up? Oh gods, I should shut up, he'll be the next Insta-Pedo. :leaving: :bang: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lady Darry Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 "He's not a movie star, he's not a film star, he's a f**king actor and he's absolutely magnificent to work with and I shall hugely, hugely miss the scenes that I've had with him because he's a master of the truth," Liam continued. "He just digs and digs and digs. You can see it on the screen. There's just no bulls**t when you're working with that man. He's a joy to work with and it's all about the writing, servicing the writing, servicing the story. There's absolutely no ego at work there and I think that's one of the reasons he's as wonderful as he is. He's an extraordinary actor. I miss him. I miss him hugely." http://www.accesshollywood.com/game-of-thrones-liam-cunningham-on-saying-goodbye-to-his-co-star_article_108851 :( Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Boner Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 They made her pregnant for the express purpose of killing her, which is gratuitoius. No. They were in love and got married. It increased Robb's jeopardy and made the RW even more horrible. Not gratuitous at all. Consistent with the story they are telling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R4W13Y Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 And that is bs too, they didn't give him any dignity at all. They butchered the character, it was obvious from his first scene. Not entirely out of the realm of possibility that they did shoot it differently but weren't happy with the result and decided to change it in editing. Ooh, good point. Of course he would. They are really in love, remember? They would elope if they have to. Speaking of this, Larry's "it's super unlikely that two people in an arranged marriage would come to love each other" talk was completely idiotic, especially for a noble in this kind of society. Ugh you're right. Just look at Talisa and Robb :rolleyes: And I hate Larry's whole obsession with love now and the idea that Myrcella and Trystane were in love. Agreed with your point about arranged marriages and how it's out of character for a nobleman in that society to have that conversation. Love as a concept in marriage was just not a factor back then. Marriage was for property and joining two houses and furthering the line. It was economical, plain and simple. Ugh. Its so nice to see this plot point paid off. You know, with Jon showing so much concern that his little brother is beyond the Wall, where he has just witnessed an army of the unDead massacring Wildlings. But oh no! He wasn't at Crasters Keep. Oh well, lets forget about him and never speak of this moment again. I said it was stupid when it happened. I said it was stupid at the end of last season. And after Hardhome I'm just, whut? Exactly! And would it have killed Jon to maybe have his last talk with Sam in the show not be about Sam having sex and continuing to have sex and fuck any and all vows instead about Bran since Sam also met him? They could have easily talked about him after Jon tells Sam about Hardhome (leading into Jon of course sending Sam to be a maester and no talk of Sam being like "vows? what are those!"). Of course if I had it my way, Sam would have left last season for Oldtown and not been in this season at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kissdbyfire Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 This is OT but just something I've been thinking about. There IS an emphasis on hair color and the seed being "strong." That said, is it ever explained why some Stark kids are more Tully and others Stark?I don't think anything in the books will be explained by real world genetics, because a lot of it would be inexplicable. That said, I think Martin tries to keep it lightly grounded on real genetics. For instance, some kids resemble the father, others the mother. He does the same with the Targaryens, most noticeable examples being the offspring of Targaryens and Martells. But I don't think we'll ever get an explanation for the apparent dominance of both Targ and Lannisters, for instance. And honestly, I for one hope we never get one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 ITA on the waste of potential, I was actually kinda sad about that for the first time in ages watching this finale. I've gone through anger, resentment, a bit of sadness on it as well, and have settled mostly on being bored to death by the D's long, drawn out, torture of the story. I did, somehow, feel the sadness at the loss of potential, I think that's Dillane's fault. He's a marvelous actor and managed to make me feel something in spite of the catastrophe of story around him. Dillane is one of those actors who has usurped his bookcounterpart's appearance for me. When I read Stannis, I really do picture him in my mind. Not many actors have been able to do that. Of the top of my head, Iain Glenn, Harry Lloyd, Jerome Flynn, Ian McElhinney, Charles Dance, Owen Teale, James Cosmo, Jason Momoa, Sean Bean, Rory McCann and Francis Magee. Dillane, alongside Charles Dance was definitely the best actor on this show. For shame how they treated him, for shame I say! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonCon's Red Beard Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Gratuitous means unecessary. Having made her pregnant it was necessary to kill the heir. And what was the need to make her pregnant in first place? So they would show her being stabbed and kill such heir. Hence, it was a gratuitous scene. Duh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpenglowMemories Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I find it also somewhat amusing when you compare the writing styles of Martin and the show. With Martin, set up is pretty subtle and he peppers the narrative with very minor clues, it makes the books such a fascinating re-read. On the show, however, the foreshadowing is so hamfisted and tacky, whether it's 37 reaction shots of Olly, or three dialogue-heavy scenes coming one after the other, all relating of Rhaegar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Why do we have bad directors on top of bad writers? I mean, what the fu ...? I've directed like three plays in my life, and the worst scenes they had (and I'm sure many were bad) were more thought through than half the scenes on GoT. As a good director, you can make decent scenes out of bad writing, at least when you have such good actors to work with. But no, the directing is lazy like shit. Graves, Sacharov and Nutter suck. They are terrible. The rest are disappointingly meh. Only Marshall has ever shown promise, but that was one episode. WotW was quite nice, but their really was some terrible stuff in there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Ghost of Someone Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 And why was the need to make her pregnant in first place? So they would show her being stabbed and kill such heir. Hence, it was a gratuitous scene. Duh. speaking of this, lets see how they off Fat Walda Frey when it is done. You know, just for consistancy. There is no way that baby is living, even if it is born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HexMachina Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Dillane is one of those actors who has usurped his bookcounterpart's appearance for me. When I read Stannis, I really do picture him in my mind. Not many actors have been able to do that. Of the top of my head, Iain Glenn, Harry Lloyd, Jerome Flynn, Charles Dance, Owen Teale, James Cosmo, Jason Momoa, Sean Bean, Rory McCann and Francis Magee. Dillane, alongside Charles Dance was definitely the best actor on this show. For shame how they treated him, for shame I say!LLLLLOOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYDDDDDD!*heavy breathing*:leaving: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Graves, Sacharov and Nutter suck. They are terrible. The rest are disappointingly meh. Only Marshall has ever shown promise, but that was one episode. WotW was quite nice, but their really was some terrible stuff in there. Alan Taylor was good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khal Boner Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 And what was the need to make her pregnant in first place? So they would show her being stabbed and kill such heir. Hence, it was a gratuitous scene. Duh. Gratuitous doesn't mean 'writing things I don't like'. Robb and Talisa had a number of shagging scenes and she got pregnant during one of them. Perfectly consistent with the character's actions and season 3 plot.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Consigliere Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Someone should explain to David Nutter what "gratuitous" actually means. Poor guy was just trying to sound smart by using a big word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shuvuuia Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 I just checked (got my books back, yay!) and Brienne thinks A LOT about Renly but not even ONCE about Stannis except when she says he was right about the Lannisters kids being bastards after she sees Renly. Yes! as far as I remember she swears to kill Stannis immediately after Renly's death, when she escapes with Cat - and that's it. I've never interpreted it as a real oath, but as shocked reaction to his death. I don't see book!Brienne abandoning her post for revenge at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Veltigar Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Alan Taylor was good. He was better than most, but still not stellar. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cas Stark Posted June 16, 2015 Share Posted June 16, 2015 Gratuitous doesn't mean 'writing things I don't like'. Robb and Talisa had a number of shagging scenes and she got pregnant during one of them. Perfectly consistent with the character's actions and season 3 plot.. Book: Robb's wife not pregnant or dead. Show: Robb's wife pregnant, dead, stabbed in the stomach. This is the fucking defnition of gratuitous violence. Done now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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