(Spoilers)True Detective Season 2: gold teeth optional

[kairparavel]

I'm just so conflicted...I want to know what's going on. I'm still trying to figure out how they're going to get there.

And they just had to find a way to top the season one shoot out in episode four, didn't they?

This sums up my feelings, more or less. Along with smegma's take on some of the dialogue including VV's characters assumption that reading a dictionary is the path to being legitimate.

As for the baby subplot, it's a nice metaphor for how everything Frank's done since trying to go legit has become poisoned and barren. It's also a nice parallel to the closeted gay guy and his beard girlfriend getting pregnant along with what Frank said about babies coming into the world with their own crises or whatever the fuck it was.

[kairparavel]

Re-watching last night's episode and the mayor's "Let's be careful out there." now seems to lean towards the tip-off. I was too busy processing the demise of Dan Dority and well, everybody not name Vic, Ray Ani or Paul, to really put it all together. I thought the dialogue had a Deadwood feel too, but it all seems more hard-boiled Elmore Leonard by way of David Lynch. (I'm borrowing the David Lynch from a FB friend's observations.)

Not sure where I pulled Vic from. Vic Velcoro's a sweet name though.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Re-watching last night's episode and the mayor's "Let's be careful out there." now seems to lean towards the tip-off. I was too busy processing the demise of Dan Dorityand well, everybody not name Vic, Ani or Paul, to really put it all together. I thought the dialogue had a Deadwood feel too, but it all seems more hard-boiled Elmore Leonard by way of David Lynch. (I'm borrowing the David Lynch from a FB friend's observations.)

Deadwood feel? The dialogue is no where near that level.

[kairparavel]

Deadwood feel? The dialogue is no where near that level.

Good thing I wasn't asking your opinion.

TOTALLY David Lynch. Have you ever watched "Twin Peaks"? Back in the late 80s?

The whole Conway Twitty Dream Sequence was Lynch to a T, as well as the raven mask stuff.

Absolutely.

[Jack Bauer 24]

Edit

[Alia of the knife]

I agree that it has more of a "Peaks" feel to it.

And I also agree the misery porn of each characters dysfunction, or issue is now cliche enough that a well adjusted character would be damn near shocking.

I also agree that each characters dysfunction come close to confusing the audience and distracting from the actual case. But I have to say I still like it, if nothing else for watching how each persons dysfunction works for them in this brutal world.

[Veltigar]

Now that was an excellent shoot-out. I wish CJF was back to direct it, put some more flourishes on it, but the basic set-up was really good. I hate it when shoot-out scenes like that happen in movies and only the bad guys and a random copper or two get offed. If a shoot-out of that magnitude happens in a place with this many people, carnage is inevitable. At least TD had the balls to go through with that.

Also glad to see David Morse back. He's up to his neck in this shit I'm sure. If the intro song really is foreshadowing some plot development, no one qualifies more for "living amongst you well disguised" than him. Who would suspect the loveable hippy guru from being involved in a string of vicious murders and all the other crimes the show has hinted at. Morse's character is either the killer or the reason why the killings started, with someone trying to take revenge on him and his cronies.

The mayor's first wife was obviously not schizophrenic. She was probably raising trouble of some sort, which subsequently ended in the good old 'stuff-your-wife-in-the-loony-bin-and-fake-her-suicide.' You would actually be surprised about how recent these things occurred. In high school we had a speaker once who lived through this ordeal. She was forced into an asylum, living a couple of years next to people who were actually crazy and others who were committed because they were in the way of powerful spouses or fathers (because they either stood in the way of their husband's affairs or because they lived a lifestyle their family disapproved of). Capping that of with murder and faking a suicide doesn't seem that far-fetched when you think of it.

I'm also pretty sure that Ani was set-up for that trap at the end of the episode. Obviously, the psychotic gangbangers were tipped off by Cromwell on the orders of the mayor. They probably hoped that she would be killed in the onslaught, that's why Cromwell tried to manipulate her into taking fewer men with her. I think the only question remaining is whether or not these were just ordinary gangbangers, being superhigh on their own concoctions and violently protecting their turf or whether this was an actual death squad motivated by some sort of cult to take out the cops knocking at their door. The Spanish dialogue, as well as the possible connection to the skeleton in Caspare's mansion seem to hint at the later option. Although I think the first option is still the most likely.

EDIT: The only thing I didn't really like about this episode was the whole pregnancy subplot. That felt even more lazy than the closeted gay guy stuff. I think I agree with pretty much everyone on this whole arc. Taylor Kitsch does a fine job with what is handed to him, but most of the writing for his character is really poor. I liked pretty much everything else though, even Vince Vaughn was kind of okay. Not as terrible as last week, but also not really good. Loved his scene with Velcoro though. It's clear that criminal and coppers will have to work together on this one.

The pollution angle actually piqued my interest. I'm wondering whether it was intentional to drop property values for land speculators with the railway, attract government contract corruption, etc.

This is what I'm thinking as well. For a criminal enterprise, this would be the ultimate honey pot. First they make a lot of money clearing out industrial waste, something mobsters are often involved with and then they are able to use the waste to create a polluted mess. Poisoning groundwater levels and basically rendering the land useless to farming and making it almost worthless. They buy cheap and sell high.

They might even get to pass by go for a third time. I read an interesting post over at the AVClub about Frank's constant mumbo jumbo about cost-over seems to be very significant to this all. I'm not aware of the actual meaning of the phrase (not being an American and all that), but the poster there basically said that due to the fed's buying at cost-over (or whatever the actual term was that Frank used), the criminals would not only be able to sell their property as prime pieces of real estate. When the pollution gets discovered, the criminals might also make money from the cleaning process. Now I don't know how true said poster's explanation was, but it does look like a sure way to make some serious cash.

[Jaxom 1974]

It's too obvious, but I listen to the opening song and I'm thinking it had something to do with the highway cop...but then it's kinda reflective of all four main characters to a degree...

[Astromech]

@ Veltigar. I believe the contracts were to be cost-plus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-plus_contract. This was the reason why everyone at the railway presentation in episode 1 was so happy. They will basically defraud the government by inflating their costs.

[Fez]

I'm not aware of the actual meaning of the phrase (not being an American and all that), but the poster there basically said that due to the fed's buying at cost-over (or whatever the actual term was that Frank used)

Cost overages. Its the idea that the federal government is providing X budget to build the high speed rail and if the contractors go over that budget they'll get additional federal funding rather than have to pay out of pocket.

[Lovely Lyanna]

Christ, this is just bad. I did not like the first episode, but I felt like I was not giving it enough of a chance. After 4 episodes, I feel like I have given it an opportunity to show me something and it has been just plain awful. The shootout was ridiculous. I was watching it and just said no cop would just walk up on building like that with absolutely no cover because they are just sitting ducks. I had no sooner said that when the shooting began. Holy smoke, what an intense scene. Of course it would have been better if I actually cared what happened to these people. I was just sitting there thinking, maybe they will kill everyone and we can get to an actual story now. Unfortunately all of the main characters miraculously survived, so I guess we are just stuck with this mess.

I mean who honestly cares if someone killed a kinky crooked politician? Who cares if someone stole a mob man's money? Who cares about a drunk cop? Who cares about a gay man in denial? Who cares if Vince Vaughn's wife cannot get pregnant? How many scenes do we have to have her whining about trying to get pregnant? Do we actually need another Vince Vaughn in the world? And that stupid bar with that hideous screeching woman singing is stupid.

I have been thinking this is going to get better. In fact last week, I thought there was some improvement, but this week was just back to square one. This thing is now half over and I just do not see it improving at this point.

[Astromech]

I'm starting to think Jordan Semyon set up Frank, had Caspere killed and stole his money. The meeting with her ex-boyfriend, the whole baby situation and troubled marriage, playing Frank against his crew, Stan. It seems a bit odd to me.

[Astromech]

Christ, this is just bad. I did not like the first episode, but I felt like I was not giving it enough of a chance. After 4 episodes, I feel like I have given it an opportunity to show me something and it has been just plain awful. The shootout was ridiculous. I was watching it and just said no cop would just walk up on building like that with absolutely no cover because they are just sitting ducks. I had no sooner said that when the shooting began. Holy smoke, what an intense scene. Of course it would have been better if I actually cared what happened to these people. I was just sitting there thinking, maybe they will kill everyone and we can get to an actual story now. Unfortunately all of the main characters miraculously survived, so I guess we are just stuck with this mess.

I mean who honestly cares if someone killed a kinky crooked politician? Who cares if someone stole a mob man's money? Who cares about a drunk cop? Who cares about a gay man in denial? Who cares if Vince Vaughn's wife cannot get pregnant? How many scenes do we have to have her whining about trying to get pregnant? Do we actually need another Vince Vaughn in the world? And that stupid bar with that hideous screeching woman singing is stupid.

I have been thinking this is going to get better. In fact last week, I thought there was some improvement, but this week was just back to square one. This thing is now half over and I just do not see it improving at this point.

Haha, Dan Dority even suggested just waiting for them to come out and Ani told him no because the boss told them to go in.

[RumHam]

I hope it doesn't turn out that the mayor tried to set her up to be killed in that shootout. That seems incredibly excessive considering all she did was talk to his family. Also clearly it was a horrible plan, as she survived while just about everyone else was killed.

[Isis]

Those of you that think season two is rubbish because it isn't more of the same from season one, did you throw your copy of ASOS at the wall when you got to the red wedding because you were so unhappy about it?

[red snow]

Deadwood feel? The dialogue is no where near that level.

To be fair little is. The show has moments of trying to be deadwood clever but it feels more like the occasional catch-phrase meant to be on internet memes eg Velcoro's "I don't want to live any more" in response to him having lived lots of lives. I did like VV's "I'm not doing someone else's time". But they are just moments and the rest of the dialogue proves that.

I hope it doesn't turn out that the mayor tried to set her up to be killed in that shootout. That seems incredibly excessive considering all she did was talk to his family. Also clearly it was a horrible plan, as she survived while just about everyone else was killed.

Given his vitriol about her last episode I would not be surprised at all if he went for an OTT hit on her.

It's too obvious, but I listen to the opening song and I'm thinking it had something to do with the highway cop...but then it's kinda reflective of all four main characters to a degree...

The lyrics to the song do feel as if they are setting us up for a "usual suspects" reveal at the end. Apparently the verses have changed slightly every week as well. If the song is about one of the characters (as opposed to switching between) I'd say it resembles VV's the most. But Kitsch's character could almost fit too. There's something really "off" about VV's role like they are maybe setting us up for some OTT split personality eg his younger self is sabotaging him into getting back to his roots. I was even starting to wonder if his wife was real this week by checking if she did interact with other characters in a way that couldn't be interpreted as "fight-club" (she does so we're spared that). His wife is a really odd character though - is she supposed to be on drugs or what, it's a really spacey performance that I'm sure has been asked for.

Totally unfounded and "out there" twists would be "Caspere faked his death and is reaping the rewards" and "it's somehow the missing hispanic girl behind it all". Out of the detectives I agree that Kitsch is most likely in the sense he's the least likely. We'd have to have that look of betrayal when dirty cop Velcoro discovers the truth just as he's murdered in the final ep.

[Relic]

Those of you that think season two is rubbish because it isn't more of the same from season one, did you throw your copy of ASOS at the wall when you got to the red wedding because you were so unhappy about it?

that's a very odd question. what does that have to do with anything?

I'm not even comparing this show to season 1. It's terrible on its own merits.

[Isis]

that's a very odd question. what does that have to do with anything?

I'm not even comparing this show to season 1. It's terrible on its own merits.

It has to do with people disliking something for not meeting the preformed expectations they had for it and disliking it because it isn't more of what they have already seen/read.

 

It was a question, informed by years of seeing people on this board react to things they did not expect to happen in ASOIAF and getting angry about it because it wasn't what they expected when they went into it.

[Elder Sister]

I definitely think a lot of the hate directed at the show has to do with it not following season 1's formula. I kind of like that it's going in a different direction, and the noir/David Lynch vibe is great. But like Relic, I do think there are elements that are disappointing.

I have been very impressed with Rachel McAdams. Her character could have been simply window dressing and she's done a great job with it. I also enjoyed the interaction with VV and the gangsters in the bakery. All that sugary sweetness surrounding three predatory bad guys was awesome.

[Veltigar]

@ Veltigar. I believe the contracts were to be cost-plus: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cost-plus_contract. This was the reason why everyone at the railway presentation in episode 1 was so happy. They will basically defraud the government by inflating their costs.

 

 

Cost overages. Its the idea that the federal government is providing X budget to build the high speed rail and if the contractors go over that budget they'll get additional federal funding rather than have to pay out of pocket.

So, if the land on the railway's trajectory turns out to be massively polluted, the gangsters get to cash in an additional time because the land has to be cleansed before building can commence in earnest, which will no doubt provide a massive amount of opportunities to inflate their costs (plus waste disposal being a business that is generally associated with the mob will make that even easier)? :)

 

The plan might even go as far as to put in bills for a massive clean-up operation, without actually doing any clean-up at all. Allowing the gangsters to relay all the money that has been poured into the operation to their own bank accounts.