POLL: Who wrote the 'Pink Letter'?

[The Drunkard]

That Mance+Dustin theory is one of the silliest, and I'm not entirely sure the person was serious. I mean, this:

Theon cautioned Lady Dustin that she would need "a warm cloak" to head down to the crypts.

The pink letter states that Mance is now wearing "a warm cloak".

Surely can't really be evidence. It's like a parody of the sort of tenuous links people create using completely innocent and very common phrases.

Anyway, Ramsay.

[voodooqueen126]

What motive could Mance or Stannis have to send that letter?

Ramsay of course sent it.

[Consigliere]

Not really, I think the general consensus is that no matter who the author of the letter is, that person is lying. The reason the author is a mystery to be solved is because whoever it is that person kbnows much more than he/she is supposed to know, meaning whoever it is it's a person that has been severely underestimated until now.

If that is the general consensus then I find it odd that so many would come to that conclusion. This is only my opinion, of course, but I feel that he contents of the letter are not completely lies. There are truths and half-truths in there.

[RavenJosh]

Not sure how Occam's razor fits it but, why wouldn't he use his seal? Or, to really aggravate Jon, why not the seal of House Stark?

Occam's Razor states that when constructing theories the one requiring the fewest assumptions is the best theory to go with, Doesn't mean that it's the right answer but the letter is signed in Ramsay's name, written in a manner consistent with Ramsay's character and sealed with the colors of Ramsay's house. to assume that it is Stannis or Lady Dustin or Mance is valid but requires more leaps of logic and more assumptions.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Fuck, every day it's different for me.

Mance, alone

Mance, with Stannis

Mance, with Ramsay

Mance, with Lady Dustin

Ramsay

Stannis

Lady Dustin

I'd have to say Mance, alone, today.

You forgot Puddles. ;)

Is there some kind of write up for the Mance theory? Mance writing the pink letter seems about roughly as crackpot as Mance being Rhaegar.

Do we even know if Mance can read/write? Does he have any idea on how to use ravens to send letters? How would he even know he has the right raven for Castle Black? Why would he write a letter to antagonize Jon? Why would he call Val a wildling princess? How is he able to replicate Ramsay's tone so well? How does Mance manage to escape Ramsay after Reek's escape? And escape well enough to sneak his way into the room with the ravens? Why does Mance even care?

Yes, somewhere there is one on this forum.

Mance was raised at the Wall. Aemon was there the whole time. What else does a boy too young to join have to do besides learn his letters from the old maester? Again, he'd know about ravens from being at the Wall.

Why write to antagonize Jon? Two options: 1) to get him to Winterfell, or 2) because it's fun.

Calling Val a wildling princess is Mance's humor coming into play. He knows she's not a princess, and quite frankly there's no reason Ramsay would know anything about Val, let alone call her a princess.

Replicating Ramsay's tone is easy. Anyone with a word-inclined brain and an ear for cadences and vocabulary could do it.

Seriously? How could Mance escape? You do know this is a man who spent decades evading the Night's Watch while he was uniting the Free Folk and being proclaimed their king. Mance is a leader because of his keen intellect. He's stayed alive this far, and north of the Wall that isn't always easy to do. Heck, he even got his people let through the Wall. Name another man who could have pulled that off.

Why does Mance care? That has yet to be established, but he has some kind of connection to Bloodraven that could be in play here. If the fate of the realm depends in part on having someone with Stark blood at Winterfell, and Jon is all they've got, they need to lure him down there somehow.

Also, you know Stannis could be in on it, hoping Mel sees the letter and afterwards thinks twice next time she decides to circumvent his orders to burn someone. Can't imagine Stan the Man would be happy about that little deception.

[Balerion the kitten]

Mance or Stannis.

These two both present the strongest cases, imo. But since i have to pick one... Mance. He most likely wrote it

[Ser Eric]

Yes, somewhere there is one on this forum.

Mance was raised at the Wall. Aemon was there the whole time. What else does a boy too young to join have to do besides learn his letters from the old maester? Again, he'd know about ravens from being at the Wall.

Are you serious? By that logic every boy at CB should be able to read and write because Aemon was there. And no, he wouldn't know about ravens just because he was at CB. That again implies, that every man at CB would know how to send ravens just because they lived there.

Why write to antagonize Jon? Two options: 1) to get him to Winterfell, or 2) because it's fun.

So, no motive then. Mance is not going to troll Jon just for the heck of it.

Calling Val a wildling princess is Mance's humor coming into play. He knows she's not a princess, and quite frankly there's no reason Ramsay would know anything about Val, let alone call her a princess.

Sorry, Mance wouldn't call Val a wildling princess. There's only one guy at CB who thought she was a princess and that was Stannis. Ramsay wouldn't know it either unless he was told by someone of course.

Seriously? How could Mance escape? You do know this is a man who spent decades evading the Night's Watch while he was uniting the Free Folk and being proclaimed their king. Mance is a leader because of his keen intellect. He's stayed alive this far, and north of the Wall that isn't always easy to do. Heck, he even got his people let through the Wall. Name another man who could have pulled that off.

Decades evading the Night's Watch in an endless expanse beyond the Wall is completely different to the scenario in Winterfell. Half the Night's Watch couldn't even recognize Mance. The people hunting for him at WInterfell know he's there, they recognize and they are looking very keenly for him. To suggest that he can escape all their attentions and at the same time sneak his way in and send out a letter is stretching it.

Why does Mance care? That has yet to be established, but he has some kind of connection to Bloodraven that could be in play here. If the fate of the realm depends in part on having someone with Stark blood at Winterfell, and Jon is all they've got, they need to lure him down there somehow.

What connection to Blodraven is that? Mance has no reason to want Jon there and no reason to suspect Jon is anything more than he says he is. He's not going to suspect Jon is some kind of savior for no reason at all.

Also, you know Stannis could be in on it, hoping Mel sees the letter and afterwards thinks twice next time she decides to circumvent his orders to burn someone. Can't imagine Stan the Man would be happy about that little deception.

There's no reason to believe Stannis does not know about the Mance deception. Nor is there any way for Stannis and Mance to exchange notes in the middle of a battle. Regardless, Stannis is not going to think about settling petty scores when there's a battle to be won and certainly not when he has nothing to gain by it.

Reply is bold.

[BRANDON GREYSTARK]

Roose Bolton

Barbrey Dustin

[Stonehearted Snake]

Mance. It was the choice of words that convinced me, especially calling the Watch "black crows" and using the word bastard. I could believe it was Ramsay though but not Stannis.

[KaIsAWheel]

DISCLAIMER: I am not held responsible for the following post.

now.

I used to read all the time. Even while driving down the highway. I just. Could. Not. Stop.

[KaIsAWheel]

Double post.

[Braavosi Lemons]

Mance

[caravaggio]

Jayne Poole.

[Lady Blizzardborn]

Reply is bold.

I disagree. That reply wasn't bold at all. In fact I found it sadly lacking.

There's rather a large difference between GROWING UP at Castle Black and being shipped there as a teenager/adult. Young Mance had time on his hands. The new recruits don't.

Nice how you just ignored motivation number one there.

You really think Mance hasn't heard any of the Queen's Men talking about the beautiful "wildling princess?" Come on. That's silly. Knowing she isn't one is not the same as "wouldn't call her" one. Remember if Mance wrote the letter he's actively trying to sound like someone else.

Half the Night's Watch are not sent on rangings either. No ranging party goes out without an experienced man in the group, and all of those with a decent amount of experience know Mance. The people at Winterfell don't know who Mance is. They have no reason to "hunt" for a singer. Remember, if Mance wrote the letter, all those parts about him are total fabrication.

What connection to Bloodraven? *shakes head* Yet another person missing the obvious. Ravens. Smoke and scarlet. Leaving the Night's Watch yet still looking out for the good of the realm. Leadership and fighting ability. Intelligence and ability to strategize that puts most Westerosi military men to shame. Not to mention all the other Targ-like traits Mance has that get him accused of being Rhaegar in disguise. And we have that lovely plot element of a promising young NW brother being ordered by a senior member to desert temporarily that may post-shadow a similar earlier event, much the same way that Jon's baby swap post-shadows the Aegon swap.

No reason...except that he never would have allowed it. As far as anyone knows, Mance deserted the Watch. The penalty is death. Stannis would not approve burning another man in his place and letting everyone think it was Mance who was killed. For one thing there's no king's blood in Rattleshirt. For another, no matter how much anyone disliked the Lord of Bones, he hadn't done anything illegal that could be specifically attributed to him. So there was no reason to burn him.

Stannis and Mance don't have to "exchange notes in the middle of a battle." Stannis wins. He sees Mance, then they talk. There's no way Mance wrote that letter prior to the battle anyway. Because there's no way a singer is getting to the ravens while Ramsay and Roose are in charge of things at Winterfell.

I'm not saying that the letter would in any way "settle the score" with Mel. Just that it might shake her up a bit. Though once again, that seems more like something Mance would do. Just because you can't see anything Stannis could gain doesn't mean there isn't something to be gained.

[Cashless Society]

Jayne Poole.

Can't stop laughing.

[Lord Lannister]

Anyone think one of the Night's Watch conspirators behind wanting Snow dead are behind this? It gives them a perfect casus belli after all.

[Consigliere]

Anyone think one of the Night's Watch conspirators behind wanting Snow dead are behind this? It gives them a perfect casus belli after all.

The issue I see with this is how would the conspirators have found out about Mance and the spearwives and how do they know about Reek?

[aryagonnakill#2]

Ser Eric, I am with you 100%. Anyone can come up with answers to the questions we pose about Mance, but they are not very satisfying answers. Aemons own steward who helped him could not read or write, so why a ranger at Shadow Tower could write is beyond me.

The fact is you were completely right when you said Ramsay requires the least leaps of what we don't know and what isn't logical. There are no gotcha questions you can ask about Ramsay writing it, but many you can ask about every other potential author that can be answered, just not answered well.

[Lord Wraith]

I disagree. That reply wasn't bold at all. In fact I found it sadly lacking.

There's rather a large difference between GROWING UP at Castle Black and being shipped there as a teenager/adult. Young Mance had time on his hands. The new recruits don't.

Nice how you just ignored motivation number one there.

You really think Mance hasn't heard any of the Queen's Men talking about the beautiful "wildling princess?" Come on. That's silly. Knowing she isn't one is not the same as "wouldn't call her" one. Remember if Mance wrote the letter he's actively trying to sound like someone else.

Half the Night's Watch are not sent on rangings either. No ranging party goes out without an experienced man in the group, and all of those with a decent amount of experience know Mance. The people at Winterfell don't know who Mance is. They have no reason to "hunt" for a singer. Remember, if Mance wrote the letter, all those parts about him are total fabrication.

What connection to Bloodraven? *shakes head* Yet another person missing the obvious. Ravens. Smoke and scarlet. Leaving the Night's Watch yet still looking out for the good of the realm. Leadership and fighting ability. Intelligence and ability to strategize that puts most Westerosi military men to shame. Not to mention all the other Targ-like traits Mance has that get him accused of being Rhaegar in disguise. And we have that lovely plot element of a promising young NW brother being ordered by a senior member to desert temporarily that may post-shadow a similar earlier event, much the same way that Jon's baby swap post-shadows the Aegon swap.

No reason...except that he never would have allowed it. As far as anyone knows, Mance deserted the Watch. The penalty is death. Stannis would not approve burning another man in his place and letting everyone think it was Mance who was killed. For one thing there's no king's blood in Rattleshirt. For another, no matter how much anyone disliked the Lord of Bones, he hadn't done anything illegal that could be specifically attributed to him. So there was no reason to burn him.

Stannis and Mance don't have to "exchange notes in the middle of a battle." Stannis wins. He sees Mance, then they talk. There's no way Mance wrote that letter prior to the battle anyway. Because there's no way a singer is getting to the ravens while Ramsay and Roose are in charge of things at Winterfell.

I'm not saying that the letter would in any way "settle the score" with Mel. Just that it might shake her up a bit. Though once again, that seems more like something Mance would do. Just because you can't see anything Stannis could gain doesn't mean there isn't something to be gained.

:agree:

Jayne Poole.

Well played. Here's a lemon cake. :laugh:

[JonSleet]

Sorry if I sound like a dick I'm not trying to but, why would it be mance?