Star Wars Episode 7 How do you rate it? (NO SPOILERS)

[Red Tiger]

Anyway, it must be a new phenomenon it getting so much stick. It had very favorable reviews in release (78% in Rotten Tomatoes, for example).

 

Almost all movies do, Most of the films that have 60 now had 70 or higher early on. That is one of the reasons Rotten Tomatoes is considered something of a joke.

Revenge was a cringefest with some good moments, Force was good acting (easily the least wooden acting of all the SW films) with an occasional fuckup or two.

[Red Tiger]

I find most of the opening section painful as well, on Grievous' ship.

Plus, a scene that's supposed to be a big confrontation (Palpatine vs Windu and three other Jedi Masters), doesn't so much make Palpatine look powerful as it makes the three Jedi Masters (who IIRC are all Jedi Council members) look pathetic.

I agree, when Palpatine tore through them I thought "How the hell did these clowns ever become Jedi"?

[polishgenius]

Phantom Menace at its core isn't a bad story, it's just a bad Star Wars story.

Of course there are major problems with dialogue and the delivery thereof, and bloody Jar-Jar, and emotional sincerity at crucial moments, but in terms of narrative coherence and flow and all that nonsense, it's the best of the prequels, of which Revenge is a string of reasonably cool or important moments held together by utter shite, and Clones is... well, Clones.

I still like Yoda going batshit with his lightsaber though. Shhh.

[kuenjato]

Phantom Menace at its core isn't a bad story, it's just a bad Star Wars story.

Of course there are major problems with dialogue and the delivery thereof, and bloody Jar-Jar, and emotional sincerity at crucial moments, but in terms of narrative coherence and flow and all that nonsense, it's the best of the prequels, of which Revenge is a string of reasonably cool or important moments held together by utter shite, and Clones is... well, Clones.

I still like Yoda going batshit with his lightsaber though. Shhh.

 

Funny, the second statement applies to all three prequels. And TPM has narrative coherence and flow? It just sort of rambles on and on and on, 'spicing' it up with jokes like Jar Jar stepping in bantha shit, with very little tension to create any sort of investment. Even in my first viewing back in '99 I really did not much care that Qui-Gon was killed, as he was a flat character in a flat movie. And the editing & scripting is the worst.

example:

*Gungans arrive*

Anakin: "They're here!"

(long camera scroll)

Padme: "Oh good, they're here."

The anti-cheese edit is somewhat better. On the other hand, the anti-cheese edit of AotC can't come close to fixing the problems. They're all terrible films, but If I had a choice, TPM would be the last of the three to watch due to the grindingly long Tatooine sequence, the racist "aliens", every moment of Jar Jar, the dull political sequences (and I like politics; it's poorly done here), the kids-waving-glowsticks lightsaber style of Ewan and Liam (particularly egregious in McGregor), "Roger Roger", mediocre cinematography, completely flat line readings, every moment Jake Loyd speaks, 90% of the time Natalie Portman speaks, etc etc.

I'd have just as long a list for Clones, btw. But it's slightly faster in the dull stretches, has at least 50% more action, the camera work is more dynamic, and Ewan is significantly better. 

RotS... works in places. I find the opening sequence the most telling part of the film. We're swept into a panoramic space battle that is really interesting to watch... then spend 80% of the time dealing with buzz droids.

 

 

[polishgenius]

RotS... works in places. I find the opening sequence the most telling part of the film. We're swept into a panoramic space battle that is really interesting to watch... then spend 80% of the time dealing with buzz droids.

 

When you set that battle alongside the very-similar-in-premise climactic space battle of the Serenity movie, you learn so much about good and bad action film-making.


 

And TPM has narrative coherence and flow? It just sort of rambles on and on and on, 'spicing' it up with jokes like Jar Jar stepping in bantha shit, with very little tension to create any sort of investment.

I said it's the best of the prequels. Not a high bar. Basically because the whole film is structured around the invasion of Naboo by the Trade Federation and yes, it does build to that, even with the Gungan diversions and all that. With added points for the relatively classy* slow-build introduction of the Sith.

*Again, by prequel standards.

 

[DaveSumm]

Crucially, The Phantom Menace didn't ruin the prequel trilogy. It's not a good movie, but in theory, Episode II and III could have still been excellent afterward. But Attack of the Clones DID kill the trilogy. Hayden Christenson stands as the worst piece of casting I know of in any film ever, and despite the millions of dollars and multiple times I've seen II and III, my brain still defaults to the vague, young looking Sebastian Shaw from my imagination of pre 1999 when someone mentions Anakin. Alec Guiness saying "I fought with your father during the clone wars" doesn't even nearly produce a flicker of either Ewan McGregor or Christenson in my mind.

[Durckad]

I think the core of TPM's story is fine (a somewhat ordinary event being a coverup for Palpatine's machinations), it's just that it's surrounded by shit acting, shit writing, boring characters, and a bunch of emotionless spectacle. Narrative coherence only really matters when what is occurring in the narrative is at all interesting and TPM is not at all an interesting movie. AotC may be a bunch of garbage strung together without any coherence, but I actually enjoy parts of it, which is more than I can say about TPM. Only the Darth Maul fight is entertaining and only as a sort of Michael Bay-esque spectacle porn.

My ranking.

1. The Empire Strikes Back

2. A New Hope

3. Return of the Jedi

4. The Force Awakens (Jedi gets the edge because nostalgia but I wouldn't be surprised to see TFA beat it out after a few more viewings)

5. Revenge of the Shit

6. Attack of the Colon

7. The Painful Movie

[ab aeterno]

I think what keeps RotJ ahead of TFA for me is basically everything on the Death Star. Those scenes are just such an integral part of Star Wars for me. (Minus Luke swinging his lightsaber like a baseball bat).

[Jace, Extat]

I think what keeps RotJ ahead of TFA for me is basically everything on the Death Star. Those scenes are just such an integral part of Star Wars for me. (Minus Luke swinging his lightsaber like a baseball bat).

Are you kidding? Mark Hamil losing his shit to the score of John Williams is hot.

[ab aeterno]

Are you kidding? Mark Hamil losing his shit to the score of John Williams is hot.

I like most of it, but those few early swings, where he grievously disfigures the overhead walkway and two computers, instead of Vader. It's like a blindfolded toddler trying to hit a piñata. 

[Stannis Eats No Peaches]

When I rated them earlier in the thread, I tried not to let nostalgia cloud my vision too much, which is why Jedi is below TFA. The moment where Luke loses it and beats the crap out of Vader is excellent, but there's too much silliness in there for it to be called a great movie. I still love it though, don't get me wrong. TFA on the other hand does have a fair amount of silliness, but the other elements of the movie were so good that the silliness doesn't hold it back too much.

[Astromech]

When I rated them earlier in the thread, I tried not to let nostalgia cloud my vision too much, which is why Jedi is below TFA. The moment where Luke loses it and beats the crap out of Vader is excellent, but there's too much silliness in there for it to be called a great movie. I still love it though, don't get me wrong. TFA on the other hand does have a fair amount of silliness, but the other elements of the movie were so good that the silliness doesn't hold it back too much.

Vader let him win. He's paternal

[Fez]

Just got back from seeing it. I was in the third row of a true, old school IMAX theater, so it was an... overwhelming experience to say the least. I think I need to see it again, in a less intense setting, but as is, I'd rate it far above the prequels but not above RotJ. Although, I haven't seen any of the OT in years, so its possible nostalgia is clouding my judgment. But I'd rate the films as:

1. Empire Strikes Back 10/10

2. A New Hope 9/10

3. Return of the Jedi 8/10

4. The Force Awakens 8/10

5. Revenge of the Sith 5/10

6. The Clone Wars 3/10

7. The Phantom Menace 2/10

I won't go into details here, since this is the no spoilers thread. So I'll just say that the main reason I put it below RotJ is that I had some issues with the pacing.

[kuenjato]

Just got back from seeing it. I was in the third row of a true, old school IMAX theater, so it was an... overwhelming experience to say the least. I think I need to see it again, in a less intense setting, but as is, I'd rate it far above the prequels but not above RotJ. Although, I haven't seen any of the OT in years, so its possible nostalgia is clouding my judgment. But I'd rate the films as:

1. Empire Strikes Back 10/10

2. A New Hope 9/10

3. Return of the Jedi 8/10

4. The Force Awakens 8/10

5. Revenge of the Sith 5/10

6. The Clone Wars 3/10

7. The Phantom Menace 2/10

I won't go into details here, since this is the no spoilers thread. So I'll just say that the main reason I put it below RotJ is that I had some issues with the pacing.

One complaint I've read is how TFA bogs down a bit in the middle. On one hand, the movie is so furious in its pacing up to the point of the frigate that it needs to slow down a bit, allow us to catch our breath. I personally loved the sequence where Rey starts tripping out over contact with Luke's lightsaber and is suddenly plunked down in that corridor in Cloud City -- very inspired sequence. However, the single jarring part of the entire film were the CGI creatures in the frigate part. That took me out of the movie and I wish they'd kept it just a conflict between Han and the newbies vs. the space pirates.

[Corvinus85]

I was not bothered at all by the CGI creatures on the freighter. I guess in terms of all the visual effects, they were the worst thing, but once again, I felt that I was watching the beloved Star Wars universe. Both of the previous trilogies had scenes with weird monsters, so I'm not upset at all that this one had one, too.

[Jace, Extat]

I was not bothered at all by the CGI creatures on the freighter. I guess in terms of all the visual effects, they were the worst thing, but once again, I felt that I was watching the beloved Star Wars universe. Both of the previous trilogies had scenes with weird monsters, so I'm not upset at all that this one had one, too.

Creatures are fine, like the Jakku red eyed sand creature that watches BB8 roll past. A CGI monster for the sake of having a CGI monster smacks of the prequels.

[Fez]

Actually, Harrison Ford running from a spinning ball? Now where have I seen that before?

[Guess who's back]

How come no one is rating Star Wars Holiday Special? It's still canon isn't it?

[ab aeterno]

How come no one is rating Star Wars Holiday Special? It's still canon isn't it?

It must rank pretty high, right?

"Upon its release, the Holiday Special received positive reviews from both The Hollywood Reporter and Starlog magazine, with the latter proclaiming it to be "one of the most ambitious television spectaculars ever attempted by an American network.""

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/The_Star_Wars_Holiday_Special

[dbunting]

I would give this a 8.5 / 10. Would have been higher had there not been as similar a plot to Ep IV.

Rank is exactly the same as HP, except i refuse to put Ep 1 and 2 in the top ten of any list even if there are only seven to list.

1. IV

2 V

3 VII

4 VI

5 III

 

15. I and II