The Flash - Alleged Superhero

[RedEyedGhost]

6 hours ago, red snow said:

so Jay and zolomon are twins? Meaning there are two "Jays" per world? My head hurts already. They are going to have to be pretty damn clear about all of this in the show or it's just going to come across as inexplicable nonsense.

Yes.  Because that's the only way I have to explain three of them being in the same room, if we're only talking about two Earths.  I think they could have possibly co-opted the Barry Allen/Malcolm Thayne storyline into Jay Garrick/Hunter Zolomon but with the twist of two Earths and making one of the Jay's evil instead of the obvious Hunter being evil. 

I really do think Zoom is a Jay from a 3rd/4th/Nth Earth, I just came up with this to try and explain how we can have three Jays in the same room from only two Earths.

[Dr. Pepper]

On 2/25/2016 at 11:03 PM, Martini Sigil said:

Let's face it.... if it weren't for the pre-existing comic books.... we'd never watch this...

On a side note, I'd really like to see the casting-call ad for Power Girl ....

I have zero background in the comics, in any comics for that matter.  Didn't even watch comic shows as a kid.  Still find comic shows and movies mostly enjoyable today.  Actually, I loved this show until the title hero turned into a deranged psychopath.  

37 minutes ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Yes.  Because that's the only way I have to explain three of them being in the same room, if we're only talking about two Earths.  I think they could have possibly co-opted the Barry Allen/Malcolm Thayne storyline into Jay Garrick/Hunter Zolomon but with the twist of two Earths and making one of the Jay's evil instead of the obvious Hunter being evil. 

I really do think Zoom is a Jay from a 3rd/4th/Nth Earth, I just came up with this to try and explain how we can have three Jays in the same room from only two Earths.

But is there any indication that there was a breach prior to Barry creating one?  Or would this be something more like Zoom accidentally traveled through a breach and now can't get back so has become obsessed with speed to help him return home?  Like Reverse Flash's time travel problem, only with breaches?

[Jaxom 1974]

Huh. I got the impression that there wasn't ever a Jay Garrick on Earth 1, that he had been adopted and was Hunter Zolomon. That there is only 1 of each man from the two Earths, they just have different names.

Being able to stumble into the Supergirl crossover is going to go a long way to explain that Zoom is from yet another world. And there is a multiverse of world's out there. 

[red snow]

1 hour ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Yes.  Because that's the only way I have to explain three of them being in the same room, if we're only talking about two Earths.  I think they could have possibly co-opted the Barry Allen/Malcolm Thayne storyline into Jay Garrick/Hunter Zolomon but with the twist of two Earths and making one of the Jay's evil instead of the obvious Hunter being evil. 

I really do think Zoom is a Jay from a 3rd/4th/Nth Earth, I just came up with this to try and explain how we can have three Jays in the same room from only two Earths.

Are you assuming the masked guy is also a Jay? Otherwise I don't know why there needs to be 3. I could just be missing a scene somewhere.

[Jon AS]

42 minutes ago, red snow said:

Are you assuming the masked guy is also a Jay? Otherwise I don't know why there needs to be 3. I could just be missing a scene somewhere.

There's obviously plenty of other options, but I'm struggling to come up with an in-universe explanation for Zoom to, on the one hand, keep the character around instead of killing him, but on the other also forcing him to wear a mask that obscures his identity (and possibly is also what's keeping him from talking). If the mask is only there to intrigue the audience then... well, then it's another in a long line of questionable writing decisions on this show, I guess.

[The BlackBear]

2 hours ago, RedEyedGhost said:

Yes.  Because that's the only way I have to explain three of them being in the same room, if we're only talking about two Earths.  I think they could have possibly co-opted the Barry Allen/Malcolm Thayne storyline into Jay Garrick/Hunter Zolomon but with the twist of two Earths and making one of the Jay's evil instead of the obvious Hunter being evil. 

I really do think Zoom is a Jay from a 3rd/4th/Nth Earth, I just came up with this to try and explain how we can have three Jays in the same room from only two Earths.

Time travel shenanigans?

[RedEyedGhost]

11 hours ago, Dr. Pepper said:

But is there any indication that there was a breach prior to Barry creating one?  Or would this be something more like Zoom accidentally traveled through a breach and now can't get back so has become obsessed with speed to help him return home?  Like Reverse Flash's time travel problem, only with breaches?

This is what I think is Zoom's motivation regardless of whatever his origin story is.

 

10 hours ago, red snow said:

Are you assuming the masked guy is also a Jay? Otherwise I don't know why there needs to be 3. I could just be missing a scene somewhere.

He's definitely a Jay, and in my hypothetical scenario he's Earth 2's Hunter Zolomon.

 

9 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Time travel shenanigans?

Maybe?  But that doesn't seem to be the way Barry's time travel works, so doubtful?  Whatever it is, I'm sure the explanation will suck

[red snow]

11 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Time travel shenanigans?

Jay in a mask is past Zoom? That's why he can't kill him but eventually he goes insane and becomes Zoom eg he can't kill him? Not that that will actually work given the nonsense regarding RF's return this season.

[Jon AS]

At the end of the season, Jay-in-the-Mask will kill himself, erasing his evil future self from existence. Except for that episode in season 3 when an earlier evil future Jay shows up as the villain of the week.

[The BlackBear]

1 hour ago, red snow said:

Jay in a mask is past Zoom? That's why he can't kill him but eventually he goes insane and becomes Zoom eg he can't kill him? Not that that will actually work given the nonsense regarding RF's return this season.

Or Zoom has taken his speed? Either way I'm sticking with my good/evil split idea, I can't see any other reason for Zoom keeping him alive.

[DaveSumm]

The close up of masked-guy's eyes didn't look like Jay to me, not that I'm an eye recognition expert or anything. Given all the time they had in the cages, it would've been helpful if he'd have spelt out "I'm Jay" or "Zoom is Jay", depending on what he was trying to convey.

[The BlackBear]

Zoom handily turned up just as he was getting there, perhaps because he sensed what masked Jay was doing, because they're linked. (might be reaching now I know.)

[red snow]

1 hour ago, DaveSumm said:

The close up of masked-guy's eyes didn't look like Jay to me, not that I'm an eye recognition expert or anything. Given all the time they had in the cages, it would've been helpful if he'd have spelt out "I'm Jay" or "Zoom is Jay", depending on what he was trying to convey.

if only he'd just tapped out "J" rather than waste time with "A" and "Y". Could have done "I" and "m" instead but this is a stupid show we are talking about.

 

3 hours ago, The BlackBear said:

Or Zoom has taken his speed? Either way I'm sticking with my good/evil split idea, I can't see any other reason for Zoom keeping him alive.

I like this version too they can claim he gets hooked on "v" or whatever the drug is called and then vibrates into good and evil or in the case of the Jay we know "bland" and "evil"

[The Anti-Targ]

I just read an article about The Flash/Supergirl crossover, and it seems like there is a villain from the Flash series who appears. Does that mean Supergirl and Flash are on the same Earth? Or hopefully their Earths are more similar and so share some of the same villains? I can't recall if Supergirl is in the same DC-verse as Batman vs Superman, or is she a 3rd DCverse? If she's in the same 'verse as Batman vs Superman, and Flash is from the same Earth, then that puts Flash, Arrow etc all in the same verse as Batman vs Superman.

Anyway, I was hoping that FlashxSupergirl would be on Earth 3, and that there might be some sort of conversation about how there's no Superman or Supergirl back on Flash Earth, and when Barry gets back he searches out Krypton, and sure enough it's still there, meaning Kryopton never died / Krypton hasn't died yet. Also if Batman exists in Earth 3, but does not exist in Flash Earth, Barry could take a trip to Gotham and find that Bruce Wayne's parents never died, so Bruce Wayne is simply a rich playboy. Whatever the case they could directly confirm where the Flash/Arrow universe sits vis-a-vis Batman and Superman.

[DaveSumm]

I'm sure the Arrow/Flash team would bite your hand off for the chance to reference BvS.......but ain't gonna happen. At best, maybe a vague allusion that it might be one of the other Earths. Don't forget, that universe will have a Flash. And Legends of Tomorrow has referenced 'men of steel and dark knights', so one presumes the implication is that the Arrow/Flash verse will one day have its own Superman and Batman. I don't see why a Flash villain can't either come through a portal with Barry, or have an equivalent on E3 (where surely Supergirl takes place, it can't be A/Fverse).

I would love to see Barry look for a Clark Kent on his own earth, but I think DC have got pretty strict rules as to what they're allowed to do and what they're not.

[The Anti-Targ]

2 hours ago, DaveSumm said:

I'm sure the Arrow/Flash team would bite your hand off for the chance to reference BvS.......but ain't gonna happen. At best, maybe a vague allusion that it might be one of the other Earths. Don't forget, that universe will have a Flash. And Legends of Tomorrow has referenced 'men of steel and dark knights', so one presumes the implication is that the Arrow/Flash verse will one day have its own Superman and Batman. I don't see why a Flash villain can't either come through a portal with Barry, or have an equivalent on E3 (where surely Supergirl takes place, it can't be A/Fverse).

I would love to see Barry look for a Clark Kent on his own earth, but I think DC have got pretty strict rules as to what they're allowed to do and what they're not.

Well he should look, and not find. It's kinda dumb for Flash to get exposure to SG (and by extension SM) on an Earth 3 and not go looking to see if the same people exist on his Earth. But best thing to do when getting back is to look for the Star system in which Krypton is located.

So I assume the plot will go along the lines of they are trying to create a rift to Earth 2, and they end up creating one to Earth 3. Possibly the Flash Earth villain is the first to go though the rift and Flash chases them through.

[AndrewJ]

I feel fairly sure that we'll find that Arrow, Flash and Supergirl all exist in the same Universe/Earth 1.0.

It seems cross-overs will be limited (due to the different networks), but they'll want to leave the possibility open without making it too complicated.

I see no reason they can't co-exist in the same universe. (And I don't personally consider "but they never mention each other" to be such a reason).

[The Anti-Targ]

But in theory SG exists in the Batman vs Superman universe. Doesn't she? Isn;t that why they never actually show his face? And while it might be OK to never mention Batman, because he's really just world famous in Gotham. Having 2 alien superheroes that can fly and shoot laser beams from their eyes and are super strong and are impervious to injury is 2 large elephants in the room that no one have never mentioned. 

 

[red snow]

10 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

I just read an article about The Flash/Supergirl crossover, and it seems like there is a villain from the Flash series who appears. Does that mean Supergirl and Flash are on the same Earth?

It could simply mean there's a version of Flash's villain on Supergirl's earth. Different universe but similar people. It might be that CWverse didn't have any kryptonian's land (maybe krypton is still in one piece) and that the Wayne family decided to stay in and watch a movie.

8 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Well he should look, and not find. It's kinda dumb for Flash to get exposure to SG (and by extension SM) on an Earth 3 and not go looking to see if the same people exist on his Earth. But best thing to do when getting back is to look for the Star system in which Krypton is located.

 

You are talking about a guy who broke off a relationship because it would take him 5 mins to run there. I doubt where his show is concerned they'd do something so sensible. Knowing where Kryton is located is a tricky one unless supergirl tells him - how would they know where to look?

6 hours ago, AndrewJ said:

I feel fairly sure that we'll find that Arrow, Flash and Supergirl all exist in the same Universe/Earth 1.0.

It seems cross-overs will be limited (due to the different networks), but they'll want to leave the possibility open without making it too complicated.

I see no reason they can't co-exist in the same universe. (And I don't personally consider "but they never mention each other" to be such a reason).

Well, the next time Arrow or Flash encounter a foe they find overpowering, I'd certainly be wanting to know why they didn't call up that god-like alien in the next state. I haven't seen Supergirl but isn't the existence of Superman a known thing over there? Is Barry using semantics when he says he's the fastest MAN alive? As it's always traditional to pose the question of who's fastest (it should always be the Flash).

4 hours ago, The Anti-Targ said:

But in theory SG exists in the Batman vs Superman universe. Doesn't she?

 

I've never heard this and isn't the tone completely different (in that it's not dark and miserable). I thought the reason we haven't seen Superman's face is because they haven't got a clue who to cast for the part but didn't want to tie themselves down in case they ever wanted to bring him into the show? Not because they are waiting for Cavil to be available.

 

With regards to Supergirl being in the world of Arrow/Flash, I'm sure they'll wait for the potential cancellation of Supergirl. Maybe even Izombie. The Flash is the perfect show for merging them as there's the Crisis event which in the comics merged various worlds into one. So if they ever want (or are allowed to have) Supergirl, Batman etc they can do it then.

[The Anti-Targ]

5 hours ago, red snow said:

 

You are talking about a guy who broke off a relationship because it would take him 5 mins to run there. I doubt where his show is concerned they'd do something so sensible. Knowing where Kryton is located is a tricky one unless supergirl tells him - how would they know where to look?

 

The conversation should go something like. Flash "Hey we don't have a you or your cousin on our Earth, when I get back I'd like to look up your planet to see if it's still there." Supergirl "Wow, that's interesting, it would be nice to know if at least one me is still living happily on Krypton. Look for Krypton in the constellation..." Barry back on Earth 1, uses the planet watching telescope at Star labs finds Krypton just as it blows up. "Bummer".