Daredevil series 2: spoiler thread

[HexMachina]

2 minutes ago, Risto said:

The thing is that you are right. We had to have that expanded. But the bigger issue here is the logistics of the show. It is not like we will have one season per year, and season 3 may be at least 2 years far from us. I do feel like they tried to cram as many things as possible this season, because they weren't quite sure when they will be back. And of course, some of those they needed for the other things, probably Defenders.

Oh yeah, agreed on the logistics. I'm not sure how this could be resolved though, as there wasn't a storyline I would have cut from Season 2, I would just like to have seen them handled better. I guess one approach would have been a split season, with the first half being Punisher and Fisk and the second half being Blacksmith and The Hand. This might mean a few extra episodes all told, but it would enable the show to fully develop the different storylines. 

I get that this is probably not feasible though

[Mladen]

3 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

The next one is Luke Cage isn't it? I'm not sure how I feel about that, initially I was very excited to see it, but after JJ I'm less enthused.. I hope I don't get Marvel Fatigue. 

Yeah, I suppose Marvel/Netflix plan look like this...

Luke Cage - September 2016

Iron Fist - April 2017

Defenders - Fall 2017

Jessica Jones Season 2 - Spring 2018 (unless they decide to push it and go with Daredevil Season 3 instead)

Given that Netflix doesn't want to  have more than two Marvel shows, I am not sure about the fatigue. This season was problematic, but it did have its moments. It is still fresh and enjoyable. As for LC, I think they may going a bit Hell's Kitchen ghetto theme there... Just to tonally differentiate it from DD and JJ.

5 minutes ago, HelenaExMachina said:

Oh yeah, agreed on the logistics. I'm not sure how this could be resolved though, as there wasn't a storyline I would have cut from Season 2, I would just like to have seen them handled better. I guess one approach would have been a split season, with the first half being Punisher and Fisk and the second half being Blacksmith and The Hand. This might mean a few extra episodes all told, but it would enable the show to fully develop the different storylines. 

I get that this is probably not feasible though

Probably not, but entire thing, on both sides had too many twists. Especially, with Punisher. And don't make me start with Nobu. last resurrection was like, seriously... Yeah, they could have handled things better, especially with Hand and Elektra. The problem is that they have time to sort things out, but alas they didn't. They had 13 episodes which gave them time to organize season much better.

On the bright note, I like the contrast between Punisher and Matt in the last scenes of Episode 13. Goosebumps on all sides

[Martell Spy]

Quote

The next one is Luke Cage isn't it? I'm not sure how I feel about that, initially I was very excited to see it, but after JJ I'm less enthused.. I hope I don't get Marvel Fatigue. 

Yeah, Luke Cage around September.

I think the biggest problem with the Hand was a lack of personalities. Nobu made for a fantastic first season fight scene, but just  is not a charismatic presence. It's pretty shocking from a show where even minor characters are often fantastic. If they're gonna use the Hand so much, they should be treated more like the first season cabal/criminal council, than like the various faceless gang members.

Elektra's death just wasn't that impactful. Even non comic readers likely knew it was coming. And while Murdach may be sad about it, if you are a Hell's Kitchen resident, you're likely happy this super skilled murderer/burglar is off the streets.  It's not like if Foggy or Karen died. Plus you even know she is coming back to life due to the Hand, although possibly even more EVIL.

Lots of things were held back was a big problem as well. Obviously so they can use the material later.  Which is fine, but it does put a drag on the season if you are using the Hand a lot. 

They should have used the guy in the corporation more, or created some other Hand leader or two. And likely used the Hand a bit less over the season if they weren't ready for too many revelations. They wanted to both use the Hand a lot this season, but not let the material develop.

I liked quite a bit of it though. The Farm was excellent as was the corporation. I'd rather have had more along those lines than the blacksmith and the end roof fight. I was expecting the Blacksmith to be an excellent scenario like the Farm. Instead the Punisher's mentor is suddenly evil and one of the city's biggest heroin dealers. And now Karen has crashed the car and he's dead. Wow, fun, thanks guys.

 

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Iron Fist is basically a Kung Fu guy right? I don't know much about him, except that he was meant to be Chinese and they cast Loras instead. 

Could it be that there was a late decision to do Iron Fist and they wanted to set up the Hand somehow to tie it into the Iron Fist series, and possibly a Defenders series? 

[Mladen]

2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Could it be that there was a late decision to do Iron Fist and they wanted to set up the Hand somehow to tie it into the Iron Fist series, and possibly a Defenders series? 

No. I think Iron Fist was planned ever since beginning of Marvel/Netflix universe. It was always to be those 4 leading to Defenders.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

Just now, Risto said:

No. I think Iron Fist was planned ever since beginning of Marvel/Netflix universe. It was always to be those 4 leading to Defenders.

Hmm ok. But do you think the inclusion of the Hand here could be based on decisons regarding Iron Fist?

[Jon AS]

3 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Hmm ok. But do you think the inclusion of the Hand here could be based on decisons regarding Iron Fist?

Probably not. IF is almost certainly going to be tied to a character introduced on Daredevil, but it'll be Gao, whose drugs were stamped with the symbol of one of Danny Rand's enemies and who claimed to be from very far away.

The Hand is a traditional Daredevil foe, created by Miller.

[Mladen]

1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Hmm ok. But do you think the inclusion of the Hand here could be based on decisons regarding Iron Fist?

Luckily @Jon AS answered that question since I have zero knowledge of what happens in the comic book world  

[denstorebog]

The Hand storyline wasn't totally unnecessary. It was Nobu as the big bad that sucked, as well as the anonymous ninjas. If The Hand had had an interesting leader, it would have been awesome, because it managed to turn Elektra into something much, much more interesting than just a femme fatale from Matt's past who shows up to fuck up his life. I was really engrossed in her story and how a character who seemed secondary at first turned out to be a pseudo-main character for the season. Especially since we had thought of Black Sky in completely different terms since season 1.

So yeah, Elektra was cool and her central role was cool. Nobu and his posse, not so much.

[Dolorous Gabe]

I enjoyed it a lot but the way it reached its ending was definitely problematic.

I agree with the criticisms, I think they took on a lot for one season and it became a bit messy. I think it could have worked extremely well if they had tied the Punisher's section of the storyline better to Elektra's section.

That said, I really liked how they drew an intriguing parallel between Matt's attempts to stop Elektra from going over the edge by killing Stick and Karen's attempts to stop Punisher from going over the edge by taking his ultimate revenge. However, that's one of the reasons it felt off to me that Punisher should show up heroically to help out DD. All that set-up about going over the edge and then Elektra gets killed and will be brought back by the Hand to become evil and punisher gets to continue his killing spree seemingly without issue. I guess it is trying to achieve ambiguity regarding DD's way vs Punisher's way but it came across rather half-baked.

Final thing. Jon Bernthal is quite simply magnificent!

[AndrewJ]

17 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Iron Fist is basically a Kung Fu guy right? I don't know much about him, except that he was meant to be Chinese and they cast Loras instead. 

Not exactly.

I don't know much about him either. Other than the fact that he's white in the comics but a lot of people were hoping they'd cast an Asian actor for the show - to add diversity and avoid the "white saviour" trope.

 

 

[JGP]

The Iron Fist controversy is problematic. Some background: 

K'un-Lun is/was a mystical city in the Tibetan mountains. In actuality, it started out and was built around a disabled starship, read: aliens] that due to physics of the crash would make the city phase in and out of our dimensional space only once every decade[?] or so. K'un-Lun is where young Danny ended up being orphaned cause, spoilers, and so he spent a decade out of phase with the really real world and with nothing better to do than learn how to channel chi like a boss, kick ass... and chew bubble gum. 

I've tried rolling the controversy around this way and that and I just can't be bothered. The Asian-type denizens aren't the original occupants of the mystical city anyway. K'un-Lun's martial arts are considered distinct from those of the Far East, so, insofar as the background goes it would be a bit tangled saying who appropriated what. And honestly, I don't care.

Give me Danny and Luke, Misty and Colleen and I'm a happy camper [however dubious I am about Loras' casting]  

[mormont]

Jeordhi: trouble is, a lot of that background is after-the-fact stuff specifically designed to reduce the extent to which the character of Iron Fist is problematic. In the original concept, K'un-Lun is very definitely a mystical Asian city, the Asian denizens are very definitely the natives, the martial arts are very definitely Far Eastern, and the whole thing is very definitely appropriative.

That was a different time, of course, and the later revisions are welcome: but that's exactly the argument for casting an Asian or Asian-American actor in the role. Society has moved on. 

That said, it remains to be seen how the writers address this aspect of the story. I'll give them a chance. I just think it is a bit of a missed opportunity.

[JGP]

Well, I can't speak to any of that.

There was a family that we used to visit way back when I was a wee sprat that had a 17 year old, who, had a closet full of boxes of comics that I'd spend hours going through while the parents drank and played cards. This was like 34 - 35 years ago. Those boxes of battered wonder were my first encounter with comic books like Dial H for Hero, Rom, Justice Society, etc etc. And I distinctly recall Iron Fist. He stuck out. I also remember seeing the alien plant dudes who were the original occupants of K'un-Lun in an early issue.

Yet I'm sure my memory is fuzzy. Anyway. What I'm not sure about is whether all this hullabaloo should get under my skin. Changing Iron Fist to an Asian-American industrialist son would only change the argument in that North Americans aren't really deemed to have a specific culture, if you will, but would it make the appropriation any more acceptable? I don't know about that. Like I said, maybe it should, but it just doesn't bother me.

Netflix changing the gender of Iron Fist, now that might add some interesting dynamics. Changing his race though? Meh.  

[Steinman]

I was so disappointed at this season. I liked season 1 and I liked Jessica Jones so I got into it with quite high expectations. 

It started very promising. The Punisher was an intriguing anti-hero, acting was overall good and I especially liked Foggy for calling out on Matt's behaviour. Episode 3 was probably the best of the season with that rooftop conversation and staircase fight.

Around episode 5-6 things started to go downhill. Elektra entered, and while she herself was good I didn't like her interaction with Matthew. Rather, I didn't like Matthew's behaviour once she got involved. I know she's supposed to have an effect on him, but he's supposed to be a responsible and decent civilian too, who just happens to be involved in the most important case of his and his friends' lives! I really didn't buy that he left them stranded and had to do the trial by themselves. I also normally love court movies but something felt off in the court episodes here. Still, in these middle episodes I still had Foggy being good, and Claire popped up every now and then. Karen starting her reporting career by investigating what really happened in that park was also good. I still had hope.

Then in came Stick... and the Hand... and Black Sky... and countless ninja fights. So you're good at fight choreography? Doesn't mean we have to see basically the same thing 10 times over. And Matt can't hear them? Come on! The back-and-forth of loyalties and motivations of Matt, Elektra and Stick almost had me laughing at the TV. The resolution to these plots has to be some of the worst I've seen in recent years.

The Punisher, Karen and Foggy though? That was alright. Foggy and Karen got promising new starts with intriguing people. Wilson Fisk felt misplaced (and they retconned that in the next episode) but it led to a fantastic prison fight and the introduction of the Blacksmith was intriguing. A new powerful villain for Punisher to fight? Nah, turned out to be a regular Joe, but who apparently is a master at interpreting a slight pause and silence as you figuring out that he's a villain. Finally recognizing Clancy Brown from Carnivale was good though!

If the quality from the first 4 episodes had continued I'd probably rate this as a 9, but the last ~6 episodes were really bad. I'd probably land on a 4 or 5 for the season.

[Channel4s-JonSnow]

The sad thing is, it took me over 2 weeks to get from the penultimate episode to managing to watch the last episode of DD. I just seemed to have lost all motivation for it by the end, and when I did get around to doing it, I was let down. The showdown was a bit of an anti climax. The whole show seemed to tail off towards the end and I found myself losing interest a lot more than at the beginning.

I'm a big fan of all the Marvel shows, but the Netflix ones which are the strongest by far, have bit of a problem keeping a consistent quality over 12-13 episodes. DD 1 and JJ for me both had real dips and slowdowns. 

Don't get me wrong, I love these shows and am really happy to have them, but they are far from perfect.

[Protagoras]

Ok, with the risk of coming off as a complete hater, I have some issues with Daredevil I feel I need to get off my chest and after seeing two seasons I have had enough of this crap.

The purpose with Daredevil from the start feels to me like an attempt of white-washing, to make people question whether this man is right or wrong to do as he do in a glorified torture-porn (at least season 2) serie with little emotion (No sex and nudity but the violence we must amp up to 1000! - inconsistent tone in other words) and a messiah-complex that makes even me look humble in comparison. But what I see is justifying the different standards "the Hero" always uses. For him, its ok to beat up people because he is a good person and if he kills or maims this is glossed over since he is standing up for the right values. The series tries to portray him as a non-villain with really glaring villainous behaviour never questioned and they try to sell the so called "gritty" world, yet insists on the worst moralistic cliches possible (same superhero format repeated ad nausium). The tone is completely off and the show doesn´t know what it want to be - childish and moralistic or dark. Its like Gotham, where Gotham doesn´t really exists and Batman isn´t needed because Gordon is soooo upstanding and wins all the time. Me Good, you over there Bad. No dept, no relativistic approach whatsoever. Nothing but selling the same format in a new parcel and try to convince everyone of its difference - and people buy it! This is not grittiness. The series doesn´t know grittiness because the serie is stupid.

However, the largest part of justice to me is not acts like murder or rape itself, but who has the rights to commit them and when I see Daredevil punching criminals or worse in the name of justice I am getting angry. Why should he be able to do this without the consequences of the law? Isn´t he has bad as those he tries to take down? And why are everyone seeing past his abuses while boosts up the villainy of Fisk and The Hand? The storyline forces us to accept that the baddies are all so bad and seen as bad yet no one seems to question "Hey, that guy maybe didn´t kill anyone, but he beats up people on camera - he should be in prison". Matt always dodges this with the "I don't kill" crap, yet this is a big blind eye from the show. Beating people up is clearly OK (Is this why US have so much police violence? Because of all vermin inspired by shows like this about the righteousness in their act?)

Again, one of the most important law pieces is justice - that we all have the same rights. If you can beat up people and I don´t, we don't have that and this disturbs me more than acts of rape and murder in the first place. For me, it would be more fair to let everyone murder and do what they want than let Daredevil have a special undemocratic right to break the law to protect people. Tit-for-tat should be the general guideline of justice, not "some things are objectively horrible so what I do is OK to protect others" (No it isn´t! NOTHING is objective). I have defended rape and murder committed because of this principle and will be happy to do so in the future as well.

And then we have Karen Page - who has the worst values about justice I have ever seen. She is a disgusting, emotional person who's views on "the truth" is "The thing the baddies do" and completely ignores the truth from the actions of the heroes, "since its not the same thing". She insists that Castle did was right since only baddies was hurt and goes on and on exposing a truth that makes her look like an asshole. No, what Fisk did to his father does not make him a monster - it makes in likable and that you think he was an asshole defending his mum makes YOU a swine! No, no one is hiding the truth about Frank Castles family - it is simply not relevant since he has MURDERED god knows how many people and you try to portray what he did as OK since he did it towards baddies - you are a horrible person! The Truth won´t help his case (God, I would love if someone had smashed her stupid head to a pulp, but unfortunately this didn´t happen). She acts and think like a child with a logic I would be ashamed if a 12-year old had. She talks "baby-speak" yet when she should be angry (That is when confronting Matt) she is a mouse and doesn't explain enough that, as long as he lies in her face he has no right to tell her what to do in any instance and that he should let her in in his life if he wants influence over it - or go fuck himself.

She is a so-called "empathic" person with no ability to understand larger perspective but always sympathizes with the one she met the last and have a hard time right now. She speaks of good and evil as if they were constants and think bad people deserve it and good people shouldn't be stopped or questioned. This is her idea of truth - expose bad peoples actions, ignore good peoples actions. Because of those double standards her true human value is shown and makes her empathy false and hypocritical. She is a great example why "feeling" persons are inferior to logical persons since she is unable to logically analyze anything. She, as Daredevil, have no loyalty to anything but her naive and stupid morality and doesn't seem to get compromise since she doesn´t want "bad people to win". She is straigth from a children's show for really, really small kids.

(And note - this is not an issue about me disliking women in general on TV-shows. Skylar was fantastic and I don´t get the bitchiness at all since she acted like a real person would do with such a asshole-husband. Iris West? Only saw first season, but she was fine - flash was the one being the asshole. And my two favorite ASoIaF characters are Daenerys and Arya).

In season one we have a pretty decent start with some great Russian but the more and more the series progresses we are supposed to be convinced about Daredevil (The moralizing starts more and more) and his way, yet he is horrible. Somehow a guy can walk into a police station and talk and everyone gets arrested and somehow Fisks good publicity is all forgotten. All baddies go to jail, including the lawyers DOING THEIR JOB (I see a loose testimony from a scared witness - their lawyers should have a field day in court). They only take innocent clients. They refuse to work out deals for criminals but want people to confess by free will and the goodness of their hearts, which of course have NOTHING to do with Daredevil beating them up and telling them "You go to police or I go after you" (I fucking LOVED when Electra throwed that is his face second season by beating up that medical examiner and telling him that he do the same - but we are supposed to take that scene at face value, that Matt does right and Electra is unstable when she uses his shitty logic). They also completely white-washes Daredevils murder of Nobu (Yeah, he isn´t dead but we nor Daredevil doesn´t know that yet) or his threat on the junkie who killed ms Cardenas and then gets killed - Daredevil is GUILTY of his death since he forced him into that position (and again - Daredevils threat makes that Junkies testimony on murder worthless - but the show doesn´t want to get that). Foggys attack on the masked man feels weak - they never say "You know, he has still beaten up criminals and the police - therefore he should be in prison like the fascist scum he is". Ben Urich decides, for no reason whatsoever, to trust Daredevils word over Fisks or the police. In general - people are convinced Fisk is a bad guy far, far too easy. Ms Cardenas is another nightmare - she exists only to say "ohh, you are all good men, soo good". Thank you - we don´t need side characters praising the attributes of the main cast like an echo chamber.

In season two they try first to challenge this morality, yet refuses to commit and follow up. Again, the series doesn't hold him guilty enough and play all those predictable hero cards in most occasions. They want it gritty and raw one second with torture-porn scenes and the next they are back to child morality. Daredevil is seen too white and the show doesn´t want to make him grey - I certainly think he is but the show doesn´t acknowledge my objections as real. He is getting white-washed and questioned at the same time. This season also suffers from too many characters and too many arcs that simply doesn't work. Why kidnap Stick if Electra was the one you wanted? Why say no to the Hand just based on true Luuuuuuve? Why not take leadership and order a ceasefire? Why help Stick despite he tried to kill you and you have following him in order to get revenge? Because of Matts cheesy speech. And when we are on the topic on Matt - he distracts Electra from killing a person which result in her injury (Seriously Electra - you are too good for him). Yet this is not mentioned again and Daredevil continues to criticize Electra. And when it comes to Foggy, I understand why he is 100% pissed. Matt is a horrible friend who not only have lied but continues to prioritize his morality over his friends and career, and he doesn't seem to get it. He expects him to just accept that he have no time for them because something more important came up. WTF! He is just arrogant through and through - someones prioritization is never an excuse that should accepted by those suffering from it since they can put forward demands in order to keep the relationship where it was, to avoid a degradation. Punisher is interesting at first (and makes a great case against Daredevil who thinks killing is a important line who separates them - that's because Daredevil is an idiot! The violation of the law is worse than the exact act you perform) winning debate after debate against Daredevil, but soon becomes another "Yeah, I am allowed to do this - fuckers" and the series tries desperately from that point to forget everyone he has killed in order to focus on his, entirely irrelevant, family as well as a forced chemistry both with him and Karen as well as between Karen and Matt (on the other hand Claire was 10000% too good for Matt). And of course the DA is bad since she had unluck with a drugbust and wants to make a career on Frank Castle (No shit!).

So, good people who likes this show - what have I missed. Because I only see a big pile of shit.

[PetyrPunkinhead]

Protagoras, let me be the first to say to you it's EleKtra with a "K." With a "K," godamnit! Now that that's outta my system, I do agree with you on many of the flaws for season two, but even though the finale was kinda meh, the season as a whole was fantastic—mostly because Daredevil S2 is technically Punisher S0.5. (Spoiler tagged mainly to save page space.)

The good. 

Punisher. Punisher casting. Punisher fight scenes. Punisher origin. Punisher trial. Punisher logo origin. Punisher punching that photo frame and removing the CD that read "MICRO."

Elektra. Elektra casting. Elektra's costumes. Elektra's origin. Most of the Elektra fight scenes. Elektra and Stick. Elektra & Matt in college. Elektra stabbing that Chaste guy in the back with the stolen sai.

Fisk. Just when you thought he wasn't going to be in it this season he shows up and plays a pivotal role in setting up the climax/third act of the series. And he finally gets his moniker as the Kingpin. I would've liked his prison adversary to have been set up a little more in the series to give Fisk's victory over him greater gravitas, but that's a minor complaint. That scene where Matt goes in to the prison to confront Fisk was one of my favorite non-action scenes of the series.

Karen. Her relationship with Matt over the course of the season and her evolution into Ben Urich's successor were great and beautifully weaved into the season as a whole. It all felt very organic and not forced. Very, very well done. Even though I did not like her actual story she ended up writing in the final episode, and that bearded editor guy began to annoy me near the end of the season (more so how his character was handled than the actor or performance), Karen was a really strong part of this season. Great character. Now have Mysterio in S3 so he can give her AIDS in S4. That's how it went in the comics, right?

Foggy. Not as strong as Karen for me this season, but I thought he still had a pretty damned good arc. the whole bromance breakup scene for N&M was laid on a little thick though, but the arc of their partnership dissolving--Matt choosing being DD over being Foggy's partner in the firm they created, that was a good arc. I also really like that Foggy is working w/ Carrie Anne Moss at the Jessica Jones law firm and hope this leads to crossover aplenty in JJ S2 & DDS3.

Scott Glenn back as Stick was excellent. (I'm sad he never got to eat that apple he peeled though.)  And I’m hoping that last scene with Elektra being resurrected by the Hand is somehow part of Stick’s plan because he knows & believes the Hand could resurrect her. So I’m giving him until next season to explain why the fuck he didn’t have her cremated to begin with.

Matt was on point and had great scenes under and out of the mask this season all up until Frank was arrested and Elektra showed up. Then character kinda went downhill for me. (More specifics on that later.)

Hand attack at "the pit" and on Stick’s base were both pretty great. Hospital attack was good too.

That fight scene where Matt rescues Frank from the biker gang RAID REDEMPTION style. It was so good Ross wanted to fuck his dad or something.

Night Nurse all like, "Fuck y'all and this raggedy ass hospital! I'm heading out to hook up with my boy Luke!"

The Bad. Thankfully, there’s not much of it.

Matt. To me your boy Matty is the least interesting and likeable main character in this season. Daredevil had some great fight scenes, but Matt didn't have a lot this season I could get behind, especially after Frank’s arrest. Matt was on then off then on with Elektra. On then off then on with Stick. On then off then on with Karen & Foggy.

And where I think the writers really set themselves up for a big fail was having that scene with Frank early on about the morality of killing and Matt taking such a strong, definitive, and inflexible stance on it. I loved the scene but it really puts Matt’s character in an annoying rutt in the last part of the season. Matt’s all, "Killing is bad. Only GOD DECIDES who lives and dies. Oh, but, um, thanks Elektra and Frank for killing all these ninjas I just punched who were about to get up again and kill me." My guess is the writers hoped having Matt come down so hard on this no killing stance with Frank then pitting Matt against a fucking army of killer ninjas would create some great inner conflict and turmoil for Matt, but I saw none of this on screen. I think they really copped out by not having Matt have to kill a Hand ninja earlier and deal with the fact that in war you kill people.

Speaking of which, the Hand were also a bit of a disappointment. I felt like for an army of undead killer ninjas they sure did fucking suck at killing people. The writers set these ninjas up as a threat then deflated their danger. For example, the Hand knew where Daredevil lived but only sent one kid to kill him at his apartment then NEVER sent another ninja to his apartment for the rest of the season. WTF?

Too many unanswered questions. We never learn exactly what the kidnapped kids were incubating, how they were mind controlled, what makes the Black Sky so deadly, and what the fuck up with that 40 story hole in the ground, yo! A lot of interesting questions were raised but the final fight lost most of its payoff because the audience was never really shown what was at stake by the Hand capturing Elektra.

The ugly.

Nobu. That face. The lame melodrama of FINALLY having Matty decide to kill someone (which he gets off with on a technicality because the guy was undead already and survived the fall to boot) just felt so flat and drawn out.

And Matt kept going on in the same lazy argument for like 3 or 4 episodes about not believing Stick’s story of the Hand cheating death and the Chaste’s centuries old war with the Hand. Meanwhile, there’s only one throw away line about how Matt’s whole belief system is based on a guy returning from the dead. I felt like the writers missed a key opportunity for Matt to have a good conversation with his priest about this and his struggle with not killing and being in love with a murderer and respecting a murderer in Frank. Disappointing writing and lack of character development.

tl;dr: Bottom line is I give this season an A-. As a whole, it tied with Jessica Jones S1 as the best season of superhero themed drama I’ve seen in the past year, which also includes, Agent Carter S1, Agents of SHIELD S3, DC Legends of Tomorrow S1 (which I’m only on episode 4, but I don’t see it surpassing DDS2), Flash S2, and Powers S1 (to be fair I never got past episode two of this series though).

[Protagoras]

You clearly don´t see my issues then. 

Too bad. 

[Corvinus85]

On 5/31/2016 at 6:19 PM, Protagoras said:

snip

I read about half of what you said. But based on what I've understood about your issues, this is like every other superhero story, whether presented in comic book format or live action, where the hero decides to take direct against villains, generally because the justice system in place has failed the hero personally, and/or others around the hero, by fighting fire with fire. Batman is the same, the Green Arrow is the same, and many others. So based on your critique, you must not simply like this type of themes and tropes. But many others do. 

So what I don't understand is, why have you even bothered to watch the second season of this?