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THE PUNISHER now a Netflix series

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I enjoyed this overall but if I'm remembering right the origin story is ridiculous. CIA guy hates Castle for punching him so hard he went blind in one eye. So instead of having him sniped or poisoned or extraordinarily renditioned he decides to send three different gangs to shoot at each other in the very public place where Frank and his family are hanging out. It makes no sense. 

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1 hour ago, RumHam said:

I enjoyed this overall but if I'm remembering right the origin story is ridiculous. CIA guy hates Castle for punching him so hard he went blind in one eye. So instead of having him sniped or poisoned or extraordinarily renditioned he decides to send three different gangs to shoot at each other in the very public place where Frank and his family are hanging out. It makes no sense. 

You have a point - there was nothing in the flashbacks suggesting Frank was planning on blowing the whistle on Afghanistan black ops. It makes it a serious miscalculation on CIA guy's part to create the Punisher.

The comics origin of it being some gangsters at least explains such a public shooting that could easily have involved others. Those carousel horses were scary though.

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Sadly, modern narratives are allergic to the idea that anything happens at random, which is a big part of the Punisher's origin and motivations. I prefer the idea that the deaths of Frank's family are a random event, as it makes his decision to become the Punisher more comprehensible to me: it's a way of dealing with something that simply can't be dealt with directly, the random unfair cruelties of existence. In the face of something like that, an insane reaction doesn't seem so insane. But we are where we are and now it's just another convoluted revenge story, standard action-movie fare.

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9 hours ago, mormont said:

Sadly, modern narratives are allergic to the idea that anything happens at random, which is a big part of the Punisher's origin and motivations. I prefer the idea that the deaths of Frank's family are a random event, as it makes his decision to become the Punisher more comprehensible to me: it's a way of dealing with something that simply can't be dealt with directly, the random unfair cruelties of existence. In the face of something like that, an insane reaction doesn't seem so insane. But we are where we are and now it's just another convoluted revenge story, standard action-movie fare.

I agree - it being a random tragedy actually makes his lifelong vendetta against all criminals more plausible to me. With this origin there's a sense he could simply hang up his guns and skull shirt thinking it's as even as he can get. Otherwise they have to dig into the fact/possibility Frank was already broken before his family's murder which, to me, makes him more of a monster. There were a few scenes in the show that hinted at that eg when he shook/grabbed his kid in a flashback and how his wife knew he wasn't "home". It's a legitimate angle but in many ways it's far sadder than him simply breaking after the death of his family.

The same thing goes for Batman - he's far more effective fighting crime never knowing who his parent's killers were than him knowing it was pre-joker, some long list sibling or the court of owls. Again, it's more disturbing if Bruce Wayne was always going to become a violent person.

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Bumping this to discuss new episodes. I've watched 4 episodes so far, and I'm enjoying it.

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in the UK it's clear Netflix doesn't care anymore - I had to find the episodes. they bay as well just call at the final season at this point

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50 minutes ago, red snow said:

in the UK it's clear Netflix doesn't care anymore - I had to find the episodes. they bay as well just call at the final season at this point

Not that different in the US. That post-apocalyptic movie Io got put on the banner, not The Punisher.

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1 hour ago, Corvinus said:

Not that different in the US. That post-apocalyptic movie Io got put on the banner, not The Punisher.

Here it was IO, ST:Discovery, Close, You and (perhaps most insulting) Titans whenever I went to the Netflix homepage. I had to tell it I wanted to watch Punisher. I'd love to know why the hate is so intense towards Netflix. I can see why they had to be cancelled but it seems like they almost want people to forget about the shows? I guess it's more simply a case of promoting shows costs them (or at least costs them in self advertising time) and they'd much rather they'd watch their films. Just seems a bit more odd with ST:Discovery and Titans as I'm sure it's just as possible that CBS and WB will pull those shows from Netflix once their respective stream channels grow. It currently seems like those outside N.America are getting Discovery and Titans simply because CBS and WB can't afford to expand beyond North America at the moment. Makes sense to have a solid base domestically before expanding. But I could see in 5 years time these shows going the same way as marvel Netflix.

The good news is that Jon Bernthal has signed on for the Sopranos prequel movie. To be fair I don't think any of the Marvel Netflix main cast are going to have trouble finding work. If I was DC or any of the non-marvel movie folks I'd be trying to snap as many of them up for leading roles in films as possible. Cox would make a great Nightwing/any of the male bat family and Mike Colter is a Jon Stewart Green lantern if wanted (or Lex Luthor if they want someone who can rock a bald head and be physically intimidating).

Not much to report on the actual show yet, sorry!

 

 

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I'm in ep 5. Looks good so far. ep 3 was great. Loved the sheriff. Great fight in the woods and I was happy to see the Punisher unleashed after the confinement.

Edited by Martell Spy

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I just finished it. It's mostly good although with a few major issues. Overall I think I liked season 1 better. In my Netflix MCU ranking I'd probably put it somewhere around the middle.

The action scenes are generally pretty damn good, especially the bathroom/bar brawl in episode one.
 

Spoiler

 

I'm really impressed with both Jigsaw and John Pilgrim. They managed to make both of them both formidable and interesting, Ben Barnes in particular was probably my favourite thing about the whole season.

Therefore it was pretty disappointing how the whole Jigsaw storyline just fizzled out into nothing and the, quite frankly terrible ending to it. In fact the whole final episode was pretty fucking bad imo, a really disappointing finale. They really should have combined the Jigsaw-plot with the Pilgrim-plot at some point, because as it is both storylines just ended up getting in the way of eachother, with one standing still while the other gains momentum before switching places. And the predictable stuff with the doctor was pretty boring too.

 

Way too little skull vest though.

Edited by GallowKnight

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On 1/19/2019 at 5:55 PM, Nictarion said:

Holy shit that fight scene at the bar in 2x01...:o

reminded me of Banshee. 

On the final episode now.  The fight scenes in the entire season are so amazing.  Just a top notch season all around.

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Favorite exchange of the season:
"You need a minute?"
"I was waiting on you."

 

7 hours ago, GallowKnight said:

I just finished it. It's mostly good although with a few major issues. Overall I think I liked season 1 better. In my Netflix MCU ranking I'd probably put it somewhere around the middle.

The action scenes are generally pretty damn good, especially the bathroom/bar brawl in episode one.
 

  Hide contents

 

I'm really impressed with both Jigsaw and John Pilgrim. They managed to make both of them both formidable and interesting, Ben Barnes in particular was probably my favourite thing about the whole season.

Therefore it was pretty disappointing how the whole Jigsaw storyline just fizzled out into nothing and the, quite frankly terrible ending to it. In fact the whole final episode was pretty fucking bad imo, a really disappointing finale. They really should have combined the Jigsaw-plot with the Pilgrim-plot at some point, because as it is both storylines just ended up getting in the way of eachother, with one standing still while the other gains momentum before switching places. And the predictable stuff with the doctor was pretty boring too.

 

Way too little skull vest though.

I definitely enjoyed it more as a whole than you, but I do agree about too little skull and most of your spoiler.

Josh Stewart was my favorite part of the whole season.  Much more menacing than Jigsaw, and yeah, Jigsaw's ending was extremely disappointing.

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OK, so overall I really enjoyed it, mainly because of the strong action moments, as well as good exposition for secondary characters, but I agree there are issues. 

Spoiler

First, people who were expecting Frank to really become the Punisher this season will probably be disappointed. It didn't bother me that much, as we see him (and those around him somewhat) come to terms with what he is, and at the end he does become that. Sadly, we probably won't get a 3rd season to see how that will play out. And yes, there was not enough skull, though the moment when Frank shows up at the robbery, and Billy's reaction to the skull was brilliant.

Ben Barnes was the highlight of the season for me. He gave an incredible performance, and his character was developed nicely, but he shouldn't have been killed off. Again, probably doesn't matter now, but if this show were to continue, a villain like Billy Russo could have served as the menace in the background; no matter how many bad guys the Punisher puts down, there's always Jigsaw. Also, I felt that, probably, the greatest moment of the season, Billy's successful psychological take down of Frank, was too quickly and neatly resolved the following episode. I also liked the Joker/Harley Quinn like romance that developed between Billy and Krista.

Daredevil season 3 managed to make the 13-episode run not feel like a drag, thanks to a strong build up of the story. The writers for the Punisher went a different way by having two main parallel archs, that unfortunately often felt all over the place, particularly the John Pilgrim/protect Amy one. I kept expecting them to intersect, but never really have, other than the few quick moments of action, like Curtis and Pilgrim fighting in the trailer house. For most of the season, it felt like the writers wanted to bring the two storylines together, but just could never figure out how to do it in a logical and believable manner. Pilgrim was another character which was well developed, shaped into a proper menace for the protagonist. so it's too bad we didn't get what could have been a riveting 3-way fight between Castle, Russo, and Pilgrim. (the opening for Russo and Pilgrim archs coming together was there when they introduced the $5 mil bounty, but instead they chose to diverge them further)

There were also a few moments when the good guys (Frank, Madani, and Curtis) were given a little too much plot armor. 

 

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While I rarely "dislike" anything from marvel, post Iron-man 1 on (iron Fist S1 and the Inhumans being the only two exceptions) ... I readily admit my bias... I thought this was exceptionally good. 

I just hope that Disney takes Berenthal's casting (in particular) into account when they do whatever the hell it they have planned for these properties...  I doubt they will, but he's great in the role. A little on the small side maybe, but otherwise perfect.

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I’ll be honest I really tried to get through the first season of The Punisher on Netflix, but it was so droll. I found its political messaging to be simplistic and condescending, it’s action boring, and I didn’t particularly find anyone likable or memorable. I don’t know I’ll be honest I didn’t have high hopes for the series, I always found the character in-comics to be boring and I honestly found him to be the worst part of DD’s season 2. I don’t know I guess I’ve always seen his whole concept to be very 80s. You know middle aged retired badass was living a peaceful life before some criminals took someone or some people from him and now he’s a rampage for justice.

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7 minutes ago, Varysblackfyre321 said:

I’ll be honest I really tried to get through the first season of The Punisher on Netflix, but it was so droll. I found its political messaging to be simplistic and condescending, it’s action boring, and I didn’t particularly find anyone likable or memorable. I don’t know I’ll be honest I didn’t have high hopes for the series, I always found the character in-comics to be boring and I honestly found him to be the worst part of DD’s season 2. I don’t know I guess I’ve always seen his whole concept to be very 80s. You know middle aged retired badass was living a peaceful life before some criminals took someone or some people from him and now he’s a rampage for justice.

You mean worse than the Hand plot? :stunned: 

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6 minutes ago, Corvinus said:

You mean worse than the Hand plot? :stunned: 

Yes. The guy just seemed an unwelcome, unneeded inclusion to me. His type of story has been told plenty of times before, and this take is kinda standard. 

Edited by Varysblackfyre321

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I do wish they had leaned more into the Punisher versus the mob stories from the comics rather than the heavy military focus we got.  In general I wish they'd drawn more from the MAX comics, which is my favorite version of the character.

Edited by briantw

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2 hours ago, Martini Sigil said:

I just hope that Disney takes Berenthal's casting (in particular) into account when they do whatever the hell it they have planned for these properties...  

I really hope that Disney actually does some shows with a darker tone than their movies, but unfortunately, that is very unlikely to happen.

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