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[Poll] How would you rate episode 608?

How would you rate episode 608?  

498 members have voted

  1. 1. What's your rating from 1-10, with 10 being the highest/best

    • 1
      57
    • 2
      40
    • 3
      41
    • 4
      44
    • 5
      52
    • 6
      57
    • 7
      85
    • 8
      68
    • 9
      37
    • 10
      16


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1 hour ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Does the same apply to the books?

Thank you. We had hundreds and hundreds of pages of filler material in some of the books. Its just the mature of entertainment in general. I mean, books 4 and 5 had so much filler they were created out of what was supposed to be just book 4.

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How does book filler excuse show filler?  I don't get it.  I thought the show is the show and is to be evaluated on it's own merits,  in which case, a show that is 80% set up for 20% pay off is out of whack.  I also hear all the time how the show is/was/will improve on the books, fixing it's problems, it's filler, its meandering.

But, the show somehow manages to be full of filler with less than 10 hours of show per year.  It managed to be rushed and boring simultaneously.

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I found this episode to be mostly annoying. There should have been something more with Arya than miraculously healing from multiple stab wounds to the gut to defeat the Waif. Then they kill the Waif off camera to boot

I didn't like them killing off the Blackfish off camera either

More jokes and drinking games with Tyrion? The Mereen storyline showed some promise when Tyrion unchained the dragons and they've never gone back to that. Maybe they will eventually but I thought the plot could have been more interesting.

Now it looks like the Clegane-bowl is off too.

Edited by Long Live The Onion King

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4 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

How does book filler excuse show filler?  I don't get it.  I thought the show is the show and is to be evaluated on it's own merits,  in which case, a show that is 80% set up for 20% pay off is out of whack.  I also hear all the time how the show is/was/will improve on the books, fixing it's problems, it's filler, its meandering.

But, the show somehow manages to be full of filler with less than 10 hours of show per year.  It managed to be rushed and boring simultaneously.

Your statement was about the whole season being  setting up, something actually used as a defence of dance and feast. So either something being boring set up is a criticism for both or not at all.

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[mod] A little reminder that this thread is for ratings of the episode. Please don't derail it by entering into interpersonal bickering with other users. [/mod]

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1 minute ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Your statement was about the whole season being  setting up, something actually used as a defence of dance and feast. So either something being boring set up is a criticism for both or not at all.

That's changing the subject.  Weaknesses of the books do not excuse weaknesses of the show, especially when we are talking about original show material.  The show cut huge swaths of the book filler and replaced it with their own filler.  That is repeating and actually amplifying weaknesses in the books.  It can't be that the 'books are the books and the show is the show' only when it's convenient to one's argument.  I very rarely make my criticisms any more in terms of what the books did/didn't do and stick to the show's own numerous flaws.  Although some changes like flipping the North from loyal to disloyal are so massive that they can't really be ignored since this is a change from something that has been a consistent theme for the whole series, not merely a character or event here and there that's in or out or modified.

My personal view is that Feast and Dance are weak, meandering, overwritten and full of filler and needed a hard edit.

That has nothing to do with Tyrion telling jokes several times in a season, and the show artificially, and not very artfully stalling out the KL plot for the entire season so they can end it in a spectacular blood bath killing spree, or for that matter what the point of including the RR scenes was in the show at all....

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2 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

Your statement was about the whole season being  setting up, something actually used as a defence of dance and feast. So either something being boring set up is a criticism for both or not at all.

Except the "setup" in the books is neither boring nor filler (imho) because they are mainly about exploring and developing characters. It's not just moving plot along through a series of setup and resolution.

I don't see the show trying to explore it's characters quite the same way. Which undoubtetly is much harder to do in the visual medium compared to writing a POV. But no, the critisism doesn't apply to show and books in quite the same way, simply because of this difference in medium.

btw. I can totally understand how people might have been disappointed with FeastDance with the expectation to read an exciting fantasy adventure novel. And I think, "they are setup" is a very poor argument to defend them. Yes, they set the table for the things to come, but first and foremost they explore how the characters deal with the things that are and were so far.

 

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2 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

The hating on the Arya scenes I can kind of understand, even if I don't agree. I can even see the problems with the Tyrions scenes.

But I can't see how people could hate the Jamie scenes, nor the Hound scenes, or even the KL scenes, they were all pretty excellent actually, the Jamie ones were actually some of the highlights of this season for me.

The Jaime scenes just seem like a waste of time, money, and good performances since his main motivation is still to get back with his sister.  Also ruined the little bit of good work they did with the Blackfish by making him decide to commit suicide instead of escaping or helping his niece out.  Also ruined the little bit of good work they did with Edmure by having him basically calling for Blackfish's execution.

Edited by Lothar

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Just now, Lothar said:

The Jaime scenes just seem like a waste of time, money, and good performances since his main motivation is still to get back with his sister.  Also ruined the little bit of good work they did with the Blackfish by making him decide to commit suicide instead of escaping or helping his niece out.  Also ruined the little bit of good work they did with Edmure by having him basically calling for Blackfish's execution.

1) Why is it a problem that he wants to get back to his sister?
2) Why is it a problem that Blackfish is dead?

Other than some attachment to the book story and character I'm not sure I can see whats wrong with it. It seems to me that Jamies arc is simply different in the show, his conflict with Cercei happens later. So what.

Blackfish is an utterly minor character, sure if some people have an attachment to him, but that doesn't mean he has to stay around in the series. 

What did they do to Edmures character that was undone? He was always a craven and incompetent, is he supposed to be on some redemption arc as well?

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all the arya stabbing bullshit instaheal would have been so easily explained.

Lady Crane could have taken out a little bottle hanging on a neclace around her neck, explaining that some red witch gave it to her who told her to drink from it in case of a life threatening wound. arya would ask what did you do to make her giving you the bottle? LC would just smirk and tell her "thats a story, i maybe tell you one day. drink and get healthy first." the waif enters the scene, kills LC and off they are playing T-1000 and sarah connor.

going the shaw way of prometheus was the weakest crap they could have done.

all the flaws of this episode would have been so easy to avoid...

they can do anything they want with a show set in a fantasy setting with unknown higher powers. people would buy so much unexplainable mysteries. its really crazy to mess shit up like in the last episode.

Edited by GilletteMace

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3 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

1) Why is it a problem that he wants to get back to his sister?
2) Why is it a problem that Blackfish is dead?

Other than some attachment to the book story and character I'm not sure I can see whats wrong with it. It seems to me that Jamies arc is simply different in the show, his conflict with Cercei happens later. So what.

Blackfish is an utterly minor character, sure if some people have an attachment to him, but that doesn't mean he has to stay around in the series. 

What did they do to Edmures character that was undone? He was always a craven and incompetent, is he supposed to be on some redemption arc as well?

1) If he's going back to KL, and nothing will  have changed, why does the scene exist?  Why is he in the RL at all?  What was accomplished with any of the RL scenes that was worth the time?  

2) If the BF has no role to play at all, nothing he did had any ramifications, why do the scenes exist?  We surely didn't need all that time to give Edmure back the castle, it could have been a throw away line, like 'some bastards took over Dorne'  so why bring him back to kill him off, and off screen no less.  For a show that is supposed to be sooo overwhelmed w/all the characters, seems a strange decision.

3) It's debatable that Edmure is craven, he's not very competent it's true, but again, if this is the only role he has to play, why bring him back?  Who cares?  He is now a totally detestable figure, what was the purpose of this, especially if we don't see him again?  

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5 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

1) If he's going back to KL, and nothing will  have changed, why does the scene exist?  Why is he in the RL at all?  What was accomplished with any of the RL scenes that was worth the time?  

2) If the BF has no role to play at all, nothing he did had any ramifications, why do the scenes exist?  We surely didn't need all that time to give Edmure back the castle, it could have been a throw away line, like 'some bastards took over Dorne'  so why bring him back to kill him off, and off screen no less.  For a show that is supposed to be sooo overwhelmed w/all the characters, seems a strange decision.

3) It's debatable that Edmure is craven, he's not very competent it's true, but again, if this is the only role he has to play, why bring him back?  Who cares?  He is now a totally detestable figure, what was the purpose of this, especially if we don't see him again?  

 

1. You don't care about who is sitting at Riverrun?  Group A or B, neither of which we've seen for years?  Weirdo...  At least it gave a very good scene or two, even if meaningless.

 

3. I expect Edmure's reaction was jarring to unsullied, who probably don't remember him, and likely didn't glean his inherent weaknesses from the few minutes of screen he had years ago.

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2 hours ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

The hating on the Arya scenes I can kind of understand, even if I don't agree. I can even see the problems with the Tyrions scenes.

But I can't see how people could hate the Jamie scenes, nor the Hound scenes, or even the KL scenes, they were all pretty excellent actually, the Jamie ones were actually some of the highlights of this season for me.

The problem is that this is an actual rational, realistic take. Those are typically not allowed here. I agree with a lot of the Arya gripes, but mainly how she went from having a very serious wound to being able to run all over the place overnight. That was pretty bad. I didn't like the Tyrion/Missandi/Grey Worm stuff either. Otherwise I really enjoyed the rest. The Hound, the Brotherhood, all of the Riverrun stuff was great. 

Here however there is no point in even trying to have a rational discussion. You'll only get the typical 'writing is terrible, show is so bad, D&D are ruining the show, if I could give it less than a 1 I would' responses. Basically people trolling to elicit reaction. Something I've unfortunately fallen for recently. I'm sure you'll discover this for yourself soon. 

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20 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

1) If he's going back to KL, and nothing will  have changed, why does the scene exist?  Why is he in the RL at all?  What was accomplished with any of the RL scenes that was worth the time?  

2) If the BF has no role to play at all, nothing he did had any ramifications, why do the scenes exist?  We surely didn't need all that time to give Edmure back the castle, it could have been a throw away line, like 'some bastards took over Dorne'  so why bring him back to kill him off, and off screen no less.  For a show that is supposed to be sooo overwhelmed w/all the characters, seems a strange decision.

3) It's debatable that Edmure is craven, he's not very competent it's true, but again, if this is the only role he has to play, why bring him back?  Who cares?  He is now a totally detestable figure, what was the purpose of this, especially if we don't see him again?  

1) It seems to me to be a predominantly character scene for Jamie and for Brienne. I'm surprised there are any complaints about this seeing as how there is an outcry every episode it doesn't happen. I could ask why RL is important in the books as well seeing as how it doesn't seem to achieve much. But the fact that both are enjoyable on their own is maybe enough. But show version does seem to be setting up events further on down the line, for Jamie, Brienne and Cercei. As well as tying off loose ends with Edmure and Blackfish, as well as bringing the Freys back into the story.

3) He was never a likable figure, that was the point.

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8 minutes ago, Channel4s-JonSnow said:

1) It seems to me to be a predominantly character scene for Jamie and for Brienne. I'm surprised there are any complaints about this seeing as how there is an outcry every episode it doesn't happen. I could ask why RL is important in the books as well seeing as how it doesn't seem to achieve much. But the fact that both are enjoyable on their own is maybe enough. But show version does seem to be setting up events further on down the line, for Jamie, Brienne and Cercei. As well as tying off loose ends with Edmure and Blackfish, as well as bringing the Freys back into the story.

3) He was never a likable figure, that was the point.

if the Tullys are dead or unlikeable and not being seen again, then I am asking why did the show bring them back?  It seems to have lavished a lot of time on the Blackfish, for no apparent reason, unless he's not really dead, and the same for Edmure.  The show is able to 'tie up loose ends' with a sentence when it wants to.

Edited by Cas Stark

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

if the Tullys are dead or unlikeable and not being seen again, then I am asking why did the show bring them back?  It seems to have lavished a lot of time on the Blackfish, for no apparent reason, unless he's not really dead, and the same for Edmure.  The show is able to 'tie up loose ends' with a sentence when it wants to.

There's definitely an argument for asking why include these scenes when others could have been done in their place, especially when much seem so rushed this season. 

But I gave examples of purposes the scenes served so they aren't a total waste of time. That these scenes are also genuinely good means I'd much rather have those in than not.

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One other thing I would add is that I think they wanted Jamie out of KL so he couldn't prevent Cersei from burning that shit down in episode 10

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47 minutes ago, GilletteMace said:

all the arya stabbing bullshit instaheal would have been so easily explained.

Lady Crane could have taken out a little bottle hanging on a neclace around her neck, explaining that some red witch gave it to her who told her to drink from it in case of a life threatening wound. arya would ask what did you do to make her giving you the bottle? LC would just smirk and tell her "thats a story, i maybe tell you one day. drink and get healthy first." the waif enters the scene, kills LC and off they are playing T-1000 and sarah connor.

going the shaw way of prometheus was the weakest crap they could have done.

all the flaws of this episode would have been so easy to avoid...

they can do anything they want with a show set in a fantasy setting with unknown higher powers. people would buy so much unexplainable mysteries. its really crazy to mess shit up like in the last episode.

Good.  Pretty much sums what I have being saying so far.  Laziness, and lack of creativity in writers/directors is unforgivable.

Edited by King Louis II (KLII)

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3 minutes ago, King Louis II (KLII) said:

Good.  Pretty much sums what I have being saying so far.  Laziness, and lack of creativity in writers/directors is unforgivable.

You are exactly correct with laziness and lack of creativity. However, I think it is more than that. I want to tread lightly here, but I think a huge part of the problem is simply hubris. The writers of this show have been bullet proof from the critics, worshipped by the fans, coddled by the network, heaved praise upon from every single angle season after season after season.

 

How many times do you think d&d walk into a room and say something like "I've got a great line....something about needing a bad pussy" and the writers who are subordinate say "ooooh, erm, yeah, so...that's really fucking terrible" No, it doesn't happen. They walk in and say "oooh let's get Jamie to say "the things I do for love" and the hound to say he wishes he had some chicken" and a room full off people give them the praise equivalent of a hand job -- why...because they are working on game of thrones and that is a pretty dope job.

 

Being insulated from serious criticism is a problem. Watch the post show d&d interviews. They are incredibly pleased with their product. They look excited when they talk about it. I have serious doubts that there are people close to them that will take them to task if the writing seems lazy, contrived, illogical or just plain bad.

 

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