Danelle Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 35 minutes ago, rotting sea cow said: As I said in another thread, GRRM has troubles in getting in Dany's shoes, more than with any other character, which is weird given her prime role in the series and that GRRM has been successfully able to create a myriad of distinct personalities (PoV and non-PoV). Part of the problem is indeed that her story happens in Essos and GRRM hasn't paid a similar level of attention in world building there in comparison with Westeros. I don't know about that. I understand why Dany's DWD chapters are considered boring-but to be fair the only DWD chapters who are tremendously well written and exciting are Theon's. The Meereeneese Knot was a huge problem for him, but it involves Tyrion, Victarion, Barristan and Quentyn apart from Dany. I actually enjoy all her chapters but perhaps this has to do with the fact that I am really invested in her character anyway. I can see why others disagree. GRRM has stated that Bran is the most difficult character to write due to his age-he is the youngest POV- and also due to his connection with magic. I think that it shows, as much as I like Bran as a character, his chapters-so far- are not really that interesting. His perspective is not very compelling. 11 hours ago, aDanceWithFlagons said: I'm surprised at the Arya POV hate, but to each their own... For more or less the same reason, I don't really care for Arya's chapters in general or Arya as a character. The bigger the distance between Arya and the political situation in Westeros gets, the less interested I am in her story. At least Bran's magic plot is connected to the main events (Bloodraven, the Children, the past of the Starks). Arya's training with the Faceless is too detached for me to care. But as you said each to his own, it is a matter of personal preferences. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rotting sea cow Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 27 minutes ago, Danelle said: I don't know about that. I understand why Dany's DWD chapters are considered boring-but to be fair the only DWD chapters who are tremendously well written and exciting are Theon's. I mean, GRRM hasn't said so, but I get this feeling whenever I read Dany's chapters. On the other hand, Tyrion's are rather fluid. However, I don't share the impression that ADWD is boring or bad written. If you are someone who is plot-addict or in need of pyrotechnic to enjoy a book, clearly ADWD is not for you. However, ADWD is a very complex book, probably the one that needs more re-reads and it is certainly my favorite. 27 minutes ago, Danelle said: The Meereeneese Knot was a huge problem for him, but it involves Tyrion, Victarion, Barristan and Quentyn apart from Dany. I heard that before and while I believe him, I don't understand why. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orphalesion Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 21 minutes ago, Danelle said: For more or less the same reason, I don't really care for Arya's chapters in general or Arya as a character. The bigger the distance between Arya and the political situation in Westeros gets, the less interested I am in her story. At least Bran's magic plot is connected to the main events (Bloodraven, the Children, the past of the Starks). Arya's training with the Faceless is too detached for me to care. But as you said each to his own, it is a matter of personal preferences. ^Pretty much this. Braavos is a boring, unappealing microcosm, I don't care about secret orders of magical assassins (particularly if some of their members have annoying speech patterns). I don't care about Arya's revenge fantasies and I find her "prayer' straight out creepy and it has long since grown old and repetitive and annoying. I understand she's traumatized...but so is pretty much everybody else and being able to understand why a character acts a certain way is different from finding that character interesting or entertaining. Plus there's relatively little in her chapters that would catch my interest, in some chapters I get to see court culture, intrigues and politics (which I find interesting) in some chapters I get to explore an interesting character, in some chapters there are entertaining/interesting side characters and/or interesting locations and in some chapters there's interesting magic stuff going on which I assume is connected to the main narrative. Arya's chapters have none of these for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThePrinceThatKnewNothing Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 Brienne Theon Sansa Asha I could never put the books down after reading one of their chapters, I had to end it on a chapter I enjoyed. While there were some interesting bits in their chapters, compared to the rest they were annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lizard Queen Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 I only just got started on Feast, but so far... Bran and Dany, because their chapters bore me. I didn't like Davos' initial chapters for the same reason -- they have become interesting since Storm of Swords, though. Catelyn's chapters also didn't interest me much. I haven't "hated" anyone's POV for finding them obnoxious or reproachable, just for being uninteresting. I sighed before reading the above characters' chapters, hehe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kenton Stark Posted February 23, 2017 Share Posted February 23, 2017 22 hours ago, Free Northman Reborn said: The honest truth is that the entire Dany plotline bores the hell out of me. The Essosi plot is merely stuff that gets in the way of what is happening in Westeros, as far as I am concerned. This is not a dig at Dany. Simply an honest acknowledgment that I don't enjoy that part of the story. Which is kind of weird, considering it represents maybe a quarter or so of the entire series. I'm sure her plotline will get more interesting once she lands in Westeros, but frankly, it is quite clear that Martin didn't give the Essosi setting nearly the depth he invested in Westeros. It is simply not possible, given the page constraints he has to deal with. As a result we have a bunch of impossible to identify with weirdos occupying the narrative beyond the Narrow Sea. From despicable Dothraki pillagers, to grotesque Slave Masters etc. Do most readers really care about any of them as much as they care about Westeros? I think not. 100% Agree. Essos feels like wasted time and space, even with characters I enjoy. There are so many under developed , more interesting characters in Westeros that haven't been fleshed out. When I read all the space in the books that deals with Essos, I find myself constantly thinking " think about how awesome this would be if these pages were about the Daynes, the Blackwoods, the Manderlys or someone giving us historical details about Duncan the Tall, Aegon the 5th, Sheira Seastar, the She wolves of Winterfell or Bittersteel." Instead we get Quarth, Hazzzz bezzzz, duh Bedaazzz and the Mereranese Knot nonsense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Snow is a loser Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 18 hours ago, Kenton Stark said: 100% Agree. Essos feels like wasted time and space, even with characters I enjoy. There are so many under developed , more interesting characters in Westeros that haven't been fleshed out. When I read all the space in the books that deals with Essos, I find myself constantly thinking " think about how awesome this would be if these pages were about the Daynes, the Blackwoods, the Manderlys or someone giving us historical details about Duncan the Tall, Aegon the 5th, Sheira Seastar, the She wolves of Winterfell or Bittersteel." Instead we get Quarth, Hazzzz bezzzz, duh Bedaazzz and the Mereranese Knot nonsense. I can understand that. People read ASOIAF to enjoy the European-style medieval fantasy settings, not for the cranky oriental weirdos which shouldn't be in this kind of series in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Targaryen Restoration Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Aeron Damphair Jon Snow Sansa Stark Bran Stark Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Robert Baratheon's hammer Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Hmm good question. Brienne - Her observations are not interesting or entertaining. Her chapters take a while to get going. Vic - Boredom Aeron - Religious nutter. Asha - Not invested in her character. Its about time some Ironborn died. Honorable mentions. Arya and Bran - I like these characters but the pace has been very slow and not much has happened in the last book. Tyrion - Not as interesting in Essos but still entertaining. Starting to get tied of reading ''He waddled''. Sam - A bit of a drama queen. Daenerys - Too much pandering in Mereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Fresh PtwP Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 I forgot Sam! Sam is probably my most hated POV him or Damphair and those are the only two I would say I "hate". New list: Sam Damphair Asha Dany Jon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 6 hours ago, Jon Snow is a loser said: I can understand that. People read ASOIAF to enjoy the European-style medieval fantasy settings, not for the cranky oriental weirdos which shouldn't be in this kind of series in the first place. That's how self centered people think. Remember this series is read by people all over the world even people who have no clue about European middle ages or someone who is culturally western and they too enjoy the series because of plot and the world building. So stop speaking for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 On 2/22/2017 at 1:23 PM, Coolbeard the Exile said: I dislike Arya's chapters the most i think. Arya's travels were tiresome to read through. You can take Arya out of the story and improve the books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 If people don't like world building why do they even read fantasies. Who are these people to decide which part of the book is important? If Martin decides to invest many chapters in a different continent it means it is going to be important. Whining about it not going to change anything. If people really care about reading only about medieval european culture read a different book. In fact Martin does a great job of writing about a continent from a foreign perspective. Essos really need to be explored because it matters to Westeros and it influences Westeros and going to in a very big way. The mix of cultures and its effects are going to be a big part of the story when Dany invades and for that we need to know more about the cultures of Essos. If it doesn't interest you then it's fine. But stop whining because of it and speak for other readers what matters and what is not.*rant over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tianzi Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Davos - I like his character, but he's super-boring. Quentyn... or maybe some of his friends was narrating his chapters? - Yeah, that's how memorable he was. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Commentator Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 minute ago, Tianzi said: Davos - I like his character, but he's super-boring. Quentyn... or maybe some of his friends was narrating his chapters? - Yeah, that's how memorable he was. Quentyn's chapters were actually very good. They had a lot of intense action that eventually culminated in the Bar-B-Q scene at the great pyramid of Meereen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucius Lovejoy Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Bran's were really tough for me to get through... despite him being young and crippled, I actually felt no sympathy for him and found the warging into Summer segments and incredibly boring. Just couldn't get into him, I'd probably be as bitter and sorry for myself as he is/was but I really couldn't get into him. Maybe because I saw the show first. Arya was very hit or miss for me as well. Her time before Ned's death and her time with the Hound were interesting, everything else kind of sucked. I was very disappointed that her time in Harrenhall was different than what I enjoyed in the show. Arianne/Quentyn were also not my favorites. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coolbeard the Exile Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 40 minutes ago, Widowmaker 811 said: Arya's travels were tiresome to read through. You can take Arya out of the story and improve the books. She does nothing and has zero impact on the story so far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Violet Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 Hated Sansa before her character development, I was nothing like her as a teen. Unpopular opinion; I found Cersei very entertaining, her delusions of grandeur amuses me. Dorne POV's bored me to death. I'd rather read Oberyn's POV instead of Quentyn, Arianne and Orys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WSmith84 Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 1 hour ago, khal drogon said: If people don't like world building why do they even read fantasies. Who are these people to decide which part of the book is important? If Martin decides to invest many chapters in a different continent it means it is going to be important. Whining about it not going to change anything. If people really care about reading only about medieval european culture read a different book. In fact Martin does a great job of writing about a continent from a foreign perspective. Essos really need to be explored because it matters to Westeros and it influences Westeros and going to in a very big way. The mix of cultures and its effects are going to be a big part of the story when Dany invades and for that we need to know more about the cultures of Essos. If it doesn't interest you then it's fine. But stop whining because of it and speak for other readers what matters and what is not.*rant over. The problem is that Essos is not a particularly well-written place. Westeros feels organic; it feels like people really live there and that it could really exist. Essos, with the exception of Braavos, feels false. I can accept it being important, but the places we've seen thus far feel like they exist as a backdrop for the characters only. And that's not fun to read. Plus the characters in Essos are mostly... flat. Not Dany, Barry, Tyrion etc. but the supporting cast. Nearly every Essosi character has a Westerosi equivalent who is just as (and usually more) interesting. That's why I can't wait for Dany and co. to get their arses over to Westeros. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
khal drogon Posted February 24, 2017 Share Posted February 24, 2017 2 hours ago, WSmith84 said: The problem is that Essos is not a particularly well-written place. Westeros feels organic; it feels like people really live there and that it could really exist. Essos, with the exception of Braavos, feels false. I can accept it being important, but the places we've seen thus far feel like they exist as a backdrop for the characters only. And that's not fun to read. Plus the characters in Essos are mostly... flat. Not Dany, Barry, Tyrion etc. but the supporting cast. Nearly every Essosi character has a Westerosi equivalent who is just as (and usually more) interesting. That's why I can't wait for Dany and co. to get their arses over to Westeros.' I disagree. It seems you are just repeating the popular opinion without any proper explanation from your own observation. What are the reasons you could give for Essos being less organic? Where do you draw the line between even Braavos and other places? I don't even think there is much written about Braavos than Meereen. In fact Braavos is more of a backdrop than Meereen and it is surprising you find the former more "organic". Meereen's politics are explored and how the city works is explored and how the politics and economy of the region gets affected is explored. Compared to that Braavos is explored only as much as in which alley Arya kills who. In fact if you ignore xenophobic reasons like difficult to pronounce names Essosi cities resembles some real world slaving cities. Don't give lame reasons that Essosi characters are flat. Essosi politics does have more developed characters almost as much as Westerosi characters. Jorah, Drogo, Shavepate, Green Grace, Hizdahr, Moqorro, Griffs and Co, Illyrio, Brown Ben Plumm are examples of characters with depth. In fact they are much better characters than some supporting characters you see from Cersei or Brienne chapters. As much you can claim they have Westerosi equivalents you can't really equate them other than citing some superficial similarities. Even then character interactions work way differently. I could see why someone might be disinterested about that part of story. It could be reasons like not being connected to the greater part of the story or simply being non medieval European. But saying things like the not written well there are people who disagree and it needs more support. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.