NFL 2017: Jared vs. Case Is Why Fisher Will Never Coach Again

[Rhom]

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Also, McAdoo got canned.

GM as well.

Be a damn shame if Eli missed the start only to have all the people who sat him get shown the door and he comes back for the last few games.

[Rockroi]

44 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

It was terrible and dumb. Even the room full of Pats fans I was with had unanimous "No, Gronk, no!" reactions to the replays.

If they suspend him, I also hope they take a good long look at how shit is being called, because they are throwing some bullshit OPI flags on Gronk for nothing, and letting DBs ride him piggyback downfield.

This was almost my exact reaction.  Gronk was 100% wrong for what he did AND there is an issue with how they call him versus every single other player who has ever played football.  I have never seen anything like it. 

These are two independent issues though, connected by one horrid play.  As it was happening I thought I would see a PI flag- clear, unambiguous push-off called ten-times-out-of-ten in every other NFL game.  When it did not come I saw the commotion and immediately thought, "Just take the INT and get off the fie-" and before I could complete the thought, Gronk dropped the People's Elbow on a Bills player half his size.  Clear unsportsmanlike conduct, and he's basically trying to injure another player.  Bad act.  

It would be easy to try to say "Look, what he did was bad but not suspension worthy...." but look at Mike Evans.  Evans did effectively the same thing and he was tossed for one game.  If that was the case for Evans- hate to say it - but that SHOULD be the case for Gronk.  Gronk's only saving grace is that he does not have a history of doing stuff like this, but neither did Mike Evans.  

I try to look at this outside of the roll of a fan; and I thought about it this way: What if Vonta Berfict did this exact same thing?  I would probably call for his empty head.  Same thing here, only Gronk does not have Berfict's track record.  And the same would go for somebdy as dirty as a Suh.  So, for me, one game would be totally acceptable; anything more would be ridiculous.  If they hit him with a huge fine, that would be ideal.  But for what Gronk did- dirty and having an intent to injure - a one-game suspension would be appropriate.  

Separate and apart from this is the atrocious calls and non-calls on Gronk.  Long ago, Gronk entered the Shaq-Zone; an area where officials treat him different because he is bigger, taller and faster than everyone else around him so they treat him differently than everyone else.  Yesterday was the perfect example of how Gronk is treated differently than everyone else.  Earlier in the game, Gronk ran a simple out pattern and he and the DB touched one another; no push-off; no shoving.  Nothing.  Gronk easily beat the over-matched DB, making him look like he played DIII college.  Catch.  Easy.  So, obviously, Offensive PI- a call that I see MAYBE have seen called 5 or six times a season on players OTHER Than Gronk.  Meanwhile, Gronk is the victim of this bad call so often, even ESPN has taken notice.  And this is by no means a recent phenomenon; in 2015 no other player came close to Gronk in total OPI calls.  And the non-calls go the other way as well.  In 2013, Luke Kuechly all but tackled Gronk in a play that decided a game versus Carolina - no call; Gronk has been held, roughed, grabbed, and flat-out tackled and the refs blindly look the other way.  

And that boiled over on the play in question.  Gronk is running a route where he is clearly grabbed and then pushed by Tre'Davious White    100% PI every time on every other player in the NFL.  Gronk then does the bad act.  Gronk apologized and in the apology he expressed how he is being treated by the refs etc.  

One does not excuse the other and one is not a reason for the other.  And so each should be treated separately in their own silo.  Gronk should be suspended for one game AND the refs should get their heads out of their collective asses and stop acting like the rules apply to everyone except the players covering Gronk.   

 

[Rockroi]

And Eli returns as the Starter.  What a fucking shit show.  

[Bronn Stone]

12 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Seattle were a bit fortunate to escape with a forward pass beyond the line of scrimmage (I think Wilson’s momentum changed it from a lateral to a slight forward pass) but that only offset the face mask no-call when Richardson’s catch on a third down was broken up and stalled a promising drive in the third quarter.  It evened out.

That "momentum turning a lateral into a forward pass" is a REALLY hard call to get right in real-time.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

Two funny Browns stats:

Since Thanksgiving of 2014, the Browns are 4-45

The last QB to with a game for the Browns on a Sunday was old Johnny Eightball

[sperry]

15 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

Two funny Browns stats:

Since Thanksgiving of 2014, the Browns are 4-45

The last QB to with a game for the Browns on a Sunday was old Johnny Eightball

 

Looking back at Manziel's stats, he really wasn't bad. If he could have kept it together off the field I think he'd be a good player.

[DanteGabriel]

Gronk gets one game suspension. Seems about right. No more offseason appearances at WrestleMania, meathead.

In encouraging news, the Pats picked up a Bills practice squad linebacker two weeks ago, when injuries threatened depth at that position. The new guy, Eric Lee, has a pick and 2.5 sacks in two games. I'm sure that means we can look forward to 20 sacks and 8 picks next year when he plays a full season.

[IamMe90]

2 hours ago, Rockroi said:

It would be easy to try to say "Look, what he did was bad but not suspension worthy...." but look at Mike Evans.  Evans did effectively the same thing and he was tossed for one game.  If that was the case for Evans- hate to say it - but that SHOULD be the case for Gronk.  Gronk's only saving grace is that he does not have a history of doing stuff like this, but neither did Mike Evans.  

I try to look at this outside of the roll of a fan; and I thought about it this way: What if Vonta Berfict did this exact same thing?  I would probably call for his empty head.  Same thing here, only Gronk does not have Berfict's track record.  And the same would go for somebdy as dirty as a Suh.  So, for me, one game would be totally acceptable; anything more would be ridiculous.  If they hit him with a huge fine, that would be ideal.  But for what Gronk did- dirty and having an intent to injure - a one-game suspension would be appropriate. 

 

Don't take my tone as personal animus, because it isn't at all, but I absolutely cannot disagree enough with this. What Gronk did was so reprehensible it made my stomach churn, and it was definitely worse than what Evans, Green, Crabtree, and Talib did. Note that I also thought a suspension was warranted for all of these players as well. 

Because what Gronk did was clearly worse than any of these players, he deserves a multi-game suspension. I've viewed the hits from Evans and Green, and they don't even come close. Gronk is enormous, and by all visual accounts, he directs the full force of his body behind his elbow/arm, and drives it clearly and deliberately into the backside of a down defender's neck and head area. That shit isn't just dirty, it's literally fucking dangerous; the defender "only" came out of the hit with a concussion, but this easily could have resulted in paralysis or worse. 

The egregiousness of the hit, the result of actual injury, the potential for far worse injury, and the utter needlessness of the hit IMO warrants more than just a one-game suspension. And I would say this about any player. If the NFL really wants people to think it is taking player safety seriously, it should mete out a hefty punishment for a hit like this. 

Edit: Of course, a one-game suspension comes out while, or shortly before I write this. I'm not surprised at all, but I stand by position. 

[Jace, Extat]

14 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Gronk gets one game suspension. Seems about right. No more offseason appearances at WrestleMania, meathead.

In encouraging news, the Pats picked up a Bills practice squad linebacker two weeks ago, when injuries threatened depth at that position. The new guy, Eric Lee, has a pick and 2.5 sacks in two games. I'm sure that means we can look forward to 20 sacks and 8 picks next year when he plays a full season.

I know you're hyperbolic, but be reasonable. BB is gonna trade him to the Browns for the #8 pick they have from the Texans.

He will go on to be cut 2 years later by the Browns before returning on a Veteran minimum to spearhead the defensive resurgence that will get Tom Brady his Eighth and Ninth rings.

[Bronn Stone]

Gronk is on my Fantasy Team in Westeros Experts and I have a vested interest in him playing this coming week.

That having been said, he should be in jail.  That crossed the line between "part of the game" and criminal assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

[Fiddler]

Seeing the news about the Giants clearing house filled me with envy.  I really really really wanted to wake up and see the Lions did that to Jim Caldwell.  This guy is just not a good coach.  He has horrible time management skills, doesn't know when to challenge plays, doesn't know when to go for it or when not to.  And to top it all off, he has trouble counting to 11.

Lions ran a 3rd and 7 defense with 9 players lined up.  Seems to be a time where counting to 11 was important.  I guess Jim Caldwell wanted to take some timeouts home with him.

Please Martha, please, get rid of this coaching staff this year.  They are done, no matter if Jim has a winning record or not.  Drop the bomb on this staff and let Quinn run a coaching search, something which should have been done when Quinn was hired.

 

[briantw]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Two funny Browns stats:

Since Thanksgiving of 2014, the Browns are 4-45

The last QB to with a game for the Browns on a Sunday was old Johnny Eightball

I think Hue Jackson might actually be the worst coach the Browns have had since the return, and that's saying something because it's been a parade of shit at the head coach position for about twenty years now.  There's no way this team should have zero wins this season.  They've had multiple close games, and when you repeatedly lose close games, I'm generally of the opinion that it's coaching that's the problem, because winning close games comes down to execution.  

Hue Jackson was sold as this offensive guru, quarterback whisperer, but he's just an inept asshat who can't manage the clock effectively or go a single game without wasting at least a couple of timeouts.  He's pretty clearly an offensive coordinator who is totally out of his depth at head coach.

[Ramsay B.]

At least Giants did something right this season. I wanted chaos and turmoil and boy did everyone deliver. I was at my parents yesterday, and as the Giants game ended my mom laughed and asked who that weirdo was with the sunglasses and slicked back hair. I was so proud of her.

1 hour ago, Bronn Stone said:

That having been said, he should be in jail.  That crossed the line between "part of the game" and criminal assault with intent to do grievous bodily harm.

Jeez, I didn't think it was THAT bad. 

[briantw]

5 minutes ago, Ramsay B. said:

Jeez, I didn't think it was THAT bad. 

It wasn't.  It was a cheap shot, and worthy of a suspension, but it's not nearly as bad as that brutal hit Davante Adams took earlier this season.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

43 minutes ago, briantw said:

I think Hue Jackson might actually be the worst coach the Browns have had since the return, and that's saying something because it's been a parade of shit at the head coach position for about twenty years now.  There's no way this team should have zero wins this season.  They've had multiple close games, and when you repeatedly lose close games, I'm generally of the opinion that it's coaching that's the problem, because winning close games comes down to execution.  

Hue Jackson was sold as this offensive guru, quarterback whisperer, but he's just an inept asshat who can't manage the clock effectively or go a single game without wasting at least a couple of timeouts.  He's pretty clearly an offensive coordinator who is totally out of his depth at head coach.

I think the title of "quarterback whisperer" might be the most overused and meaningless thing in the NFL. McAdoo was called the same thing because Eli's TD-Int ratio got better under his time as the OC and then coach, but he had nothing to do with it. OBJ did. 

As far as clock management goes, it seems like the coaches that are the biggest control freaks are the ones who struggle the most. Sometimes you have to accept that you have too much on your plate and be willing to let other people handle some of the responsibilities that you want to have.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 minute ago, briantw said:

It wasn't.  It was a cheap shot, and worthy of a suspension, but it's not nearly as bad as that brutal hit Davante Adams took earlier this season.  

Agreed. It deserved an ejection and a 1-2 game ban. Some people make it sound like it was the dirtiest hit ever.

[IamMe90]

6 minutes ago, briantw said:

It wasn't.  It was a cheap shot, and worthy of a suspension, but it's not nearly as bad as that brutal hit Davante Adams took earlier this season.  

Tell me what about my description of the hit isn't accurate, then. Seriously, please explain to me how bodyslamming someone, elbow first into the back of their neck and head area at 265 pounds is not extremely fucking dangerous. 

[Jace, Extat]

I feel like people are not excited enough about the fact that I am here.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

2 hours ago, DanteGabriel said:

Gronk gets one game suspension. Seems about right. No more offseason appearances at WrestleMania, meathead.

DO you think this incident will cost him his "Gronk being Gronk" defense that lets him get away with so much stuff? 

[Bronn Stone]

10 minutes ago, briantw said:

It wasn't.  It was a cheap shot, and worthy of a suspension, but it's not nearly as bad as that brutal hit Davante Adams took earlier this season.  

If you're talking about the Trevathan hit on Adams, that happened on a football play.  It was outside the rules, but Trevathan's attempt was to tackle a runner.  Gronk's was PURELY punitive and there wasn't a football play happening at the time.  Much, much, much worse IMO.

Of course, I'd have arrested Aqib Talib for felony vandalism and hauled him straight to jail for intentionally damaging Michael Crabtree's gold chain.  The law does not end when one walks on the field.