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Circling back to McCain from the previous thread:

I know that on the left one sees fairly frequently the suggestion that he's a Republican through and through a lot...and I get that up to a point.  Sure, he's hawkish as Hell, so if you're a dove he's not even one of the better Republicans.  But he has bucked the GOP line a lot more than most...a low bar, I suppose, but I also say credit where credit is due.  

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Just now, Triskele said:

Circling back to McCain from the previous thread:

I know that on the left one sees fairly frequently the suggestion that he's a Republican through and through a lot...and I get that up to a point.  Sure, he's hawkish as Hell, so if you're a dove he's not even one of the better Republicans.  But he has bucked the GOP line a lot more than most...a low bar, I suppose, but I also say credit where credit is due.  

I'd say that his views are fairly consistent and he hasn't wavered much from them. I don't think being right-wing makes him a bad person, even if I'd disagree with a lot of his views. He probably had poor judgement at times, such as choosing Sarah Palin as a running-mate. But where he has his views he seems to have been consistent in them, and that's worth something at least.

For instance, he is on the record as hating Trump and there's no doubt the reports he doesn't want Trump at his funeral were a calculated leak. But he maintains his job as a senator, taking each position on its merits, voting what he believes is correct.

It's possible to respect him without agreeing. He's the opposite of worms like Paul Ryan, who have sold their souls to the throne of their darling pet orang-utan.

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3 minutes ago, Triskele said:

I know that on the left one sees fairly frequently the suggestion that he's a Republican through and through a lot...and I get that up to a point.  Sure, he's hawkish as Hell, so if you're a dove he's not even one of the better Republicans.  But he has bucked the GOP line a lot more than most...a low bar, I suppose, but I also say credit where credit is due.  

The recent reports that he regrets picking Palin instead of Lieberman just about sum it up.  He had a chance to reign in the GOP as their standard bearer in 2008, and instead he - at best - allowed the rancorous extremism continue.  Also, he spent all of the Obama administration simply yelling at him for being weak, focusing on their foreign policy differences rather than acting as a leader of the GOP Senate that could actually find some common ground and govern.  His legacy will be considerably hurt by the last decade of his time in office, and it's deserved.

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2 minutes ago, Yukle said:

It's possible to respect him without agreeing. He's the opposite of worms like Paul Ryan, who have sold their souls to the throne of their darling pet orang-utan.

Exactly.  McCain has acted like a politician much of the time as all politicians do.  My point though is that there is a spectrum and many are worse if not most.

 

Quote

The recent reports that he regrets picking Palin instead of Lieberman just about sum it up.  He had a chance to reign in the GOP as their standard bearer in 2008, and instead he - at best - allowed the rancorous extremism continue.  Also, he spent all of the Obama administration simply yelling at him for being weak, focusing on their foreign policy differences rather than acting as a leader of the GOP Senate that could actually find some common ground and govern.  His legacy will be considerably hurt by the last decade of his time in office, and it's deserved.

All of that is fair.  But you can find more bright spots than most of his colleagues.  As I said, a low bar.

Edited by Triskele

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7 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

The recent reports that he regrets picking Palin instead of Lieberman just about sum it up.  He had a chance to reign in the GOP as their standard bearer in 2008, and instead he - at best - allowed the rancorous extremism continue.  Also, he spent all of the Obama administration simply yelling at him for being weak, focusing on their foreign policy differences rather than acting as a leader of the GOP Senate that could actually find some common ground and govern.  His legacy will be considerably hurt by the last decade of his time in office, and it's deserved.

He wasn't a very good leader, mostly because he lacked the charisma and gravitas, probably the negotiation skills to lead. He made a good standout, a good maverick from time to time and had no control over his party - but could have had.

I don't think he was perfect, or always fair in his voting, or consistent in his approach. But he did about as well as you could expect a normal person to in the same circumstances.

Mitch McConnell seems to have found an excellent strategy for unifying his party which McCain never did. Unfortunately, the strategy is to enable a crime lord to do whatever he wants and allow literal Nazis to chant, "Jews will not replace us."

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10 minutes ago, Yukle said:

He wasn't a very good leader, mostly because he lacked the charisma and gravitas, probably the negotiation skills to lead.

McCain had great negotiation skills.  He has his name on the only major campaign finance reform bill in the past 40 years, and his Senate career includes many other laudables - and not so laudables - that all entailed bipartisan cooperation.  But at the height of his influence, he utterly failed.  And became a cantankerous old man afterwards.  That's my beef.

Look, I think John McCain is an admirable man - which many here will take issue with.  I think it's unfortunate he's about to die and respect what he's done for this country both in service and in office, despite the fact I disagree with him on about 90% of the issues.  But that doesn't change the facts above.  When good men ignore their better angels, what hope is there for the standard self-interested politician?

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16 minutes ago, dmc515 said:

McCain had great negotiation skills.  He has his name on the only major campaign finance reform bill in the past 40 years, and his Senate career includes many other laudables - and not so laudables - that all entailed bipartisan cooperation.  But at the height of his influence, he utterly failed.  And became a cantankerous old man afterwards.  That's my beef.

Look, I think John McCain is an admirable man - which many here will take issue with.  I think it's unfortunate he's about to die and respect what he's done for this country both in service and in office, despite the fact I disagree with him on about 90% of the issues.  But that doesn't change the facts above.  When good men ignore their better angels, what hope is there for the standard self-interested politician?

I didn't know the campaign finance part, that's great of him! :) Are they the same laws the Stormy Daniels issue is breaking?

This is only my guess, but maybe he has spent the past decade trying to cling more tightly to a dying ideology. It's not like he has that much in common with the Republicans of today.

He could've been better and he definitely could have been worse. As a non-American, there aren't really other Republicans I can think of off the top of my head who don't seem to be complete pushovers in the face of fascism.

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2 hours ago, Triskele said:

 

All of that is fair.  But you can find more bright spots than most of his colleagues.  As I said, a low bar.

McCain gave us Palin, who gave us the Tea Party, who elected Donald Trump. Fuck McCain.

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McCain is mostly a PR creation. A spoiled and irresponsible flyboy who used family connections to advance his Navy career, interested only in chasing women and flouting regulations without consequence, until he was ennobled by his POW ordeal.

He voted against the federal holiday for MLK's birthday and was one of the Keating Five, intervening on behalf of a crook whose bank eventually did collapse and cost taxpayers $3.4 billion.

Yet his ability to schmooze reporters and convince them of his maverickness helped him smooth over those early mistakes. His occasional straight talk in a town full of smarmers and liars got him way more credit than his voting record and personal history deserved. Even that so-called heroic vote of his to save Obamacare last year was stage-managed to the hilt, a last glory-hogging ride for the vainglorious old fraud, sucking all the media attention out of the room when other senators risked more and another senator had also come to vote while battling cancer. Don't forget, he still voted for this shameless pigfuckery of the GOP tax bill. Because he's still a Republican who coddles the wealthy and gives zero fucks about the poor and middle class.

Fuck McCain. The day he dies, I'll repost Matt Taibbi's hatchet job profile on every platform. What a terrible thing for our country if he's the best we can come up with for GOP "integrity."

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So, Essential Consultants LLC. That seems like a non-shady name for a company that is not in any way a front for graft. 

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Just now, mormont said:

So, Essential Consultants LLC. That seems like a non-shady name for a company that is not in any way a front for graft. 

They should have just called it Criminal Enterprises. Cuz why not? We're being swindled by the dumbest criminals in history. 

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McCain is mostly a PR creation. A spoiled and irresponsible flyboy who used family connections to advance his Navy career, interested only in chasing women and flouting regulations without consequence, until he was ennobled by his POW ordeal.

He voted against the federal holiday for MLK's birthday and was one of the Keating Five, intervening on behalf of a crook whose bank eventually did collapse and cost taxpayers $3.4 billion.

Yet his ability to schmooze reporters and convince them of his maverickness helped him smooth over those early mistakes. His occasional straight talk in a town full of smarmers and liars got him way more credit than his voting record and personal history deserved. Even that so-called heroic vote of his to save Obamacare last year was stage-managed to the hilt, a last glory-hogging ride for the vainglorious old fraud, sucking all the media attention out of the room when other senators risked more and another senator had also come to vote while battling cancer. Don't forget, he still voted for this shameless pigfuckery of the GOP tax bill. Because he's still a Republican who coddles the wealthy and gives zero fucks about the poor and middle class.

Fuck McCain. The day he dies, I'll repost Matt Taibbi's hatchet job profile on every platform. What a terrible thing for our country if he's the best we can come up with for GOP "integrity."

I could not have said it better myself. JFC, the hagiography of Saint McCain has already begun and he's not even a corpse yet. it's enough to make the bile rise.

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Now It’s Democrats’ Turn to Weaponize Soaring Health Care Costs

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2018/05/democrats-are-weaponizing-soaring-health-care-premiums-against-republicans.html

“We Democrats are going to be relentless in making sure the American people understand exactly who is to blame for these rates,” Schumer said. “Republicans control the presidency, the House, and the Senate. The rate increases would be on their backs normally—they’re supposed to be in charge—but more so because they have actively done things to increase rates on families.”

Edited by Martell Spy

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‘When gerrymandering backfires’: Democrats go after once-safe GOP seats

Republican redistricting maximized GOP gains in past years, but it could exacerbate the party’s losses in 2018.

https://www.politico.com/story/2018/05/10/gerrymandering-midterms-democrats-house-seats-579890

In many states, Republicans maximized gains in the House by spreading GOP voters across as many districts as possible. Typically, that left Democrats with around 40 to 45 percent of the vote in those districts, making them difficult under normal circumstances for the minority party to contest.

But this election year is anything but normal. Many of the once-secure 55-45 Republican districts are very much in play, even in states that have not had competitive congressional races since 2012, the year new maps were installed.

Edited by Martell Spy

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@Yukle

I was talking about the number of posts in threads. That’s how I gauge if I should check out what’s going on. Every hour or two at work I refresh the page, and if the post count gores from 205 to 208 I don’t bother reading, but if two new pages appear then I know there’s a good chance that some news broke.

@Sour Billy Tipton

The board skews to the left, which shouldn’t be surprising giving the book/TV series, and the politics thread skews a bit to the left of that. However, that’s primarily because of two reasons. The more thoughtful conservatives, over the years, have drifted more to the center and/or the center-left, and those that aren’t so thoughtful tend to just be trolls. It’s not surprising that there aren’t many conservatives left considering there really is no way a thoughtful person can still be an across the board conservative these days.  

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Re: McCain. I kind of view him as a character straight out of a Greek tragedy or a Shakespearean play. He is the son of a Navy Admiral who is the son of a Navy Admiral. He was a brat and a terrible student and yet he seemed like a fun guy to be around as he grew up, despite his many, many flaws. He was largely a joke in the military, and got a lot of people killed, but then he became a noble POW. He parlayed that into a political career that had a lot of highs and lows, with great things like McCain-Feingold and horrific things like injecting Palinism into the American nervous system. All in all his life has been a net negative, both on the personal and political levels, but he is an interesting figure that will discussed long after death, which is more than you can say about most elected officials. He represents the fact that all famous and great figures are still deeply flawed human beings.

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I could not have said it better myself. JFC, the hagiography of Saint McCain has already begun and he's not even a corpse yet. it's enough to make the bile rise.

:agree:

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Is your message box full or do you refuse to take messages?  :ph34r:

?

I have no idea, but Jace does flood my PMs with terrible fantasy football trade proposals.  

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