felice Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, SweetPea said: That's part of my point. Many progressives have a worldview where white supremacists rule the country, Trump is about to end democracy, minorities are under oppression, and it's only a matter of time before the killing begins. In this scenario, doesn't it feel unjust that they'd want to take away the right to own guns from minorities and those that are under the biggest threat? In this scenario, how progressives feel about gun law is completely irrelevant because they have no power to make changes to the law. And most of them would probably oppose discriminatory proposals like banning minorities from owning guns even if they support gun control in principle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 3 hours ago, Week said: I assume you refer to lynching - the extrajudicial violence that had been ongoing for decades on the Left, Right? Or Heather Heyer? Or South Carolina? Or any number of incidents that anecdotally and statistically, in aggregate, uncover the puddle of intellectual depth that you've found refuge in. Guns = Good Left = Worse Well the funny thing about centrists / center right self righteous alarmists thinkg the left are dangerous commies and the bigger threat, they ignore the difference between the two ideologies, like how one is for equality and not oppressing people, where as the right, which these alarmists lean more towards, are all for oppression as long as they are not having their own rights fucked with. These centrists / center right wingers try to act like both do exactly the same, but they dont. People like that are pointless to argue with, they are on par with Alex Jones conspiracy theorists. They ignore reality, think they know everthing, and think because they dont experience it that its not happening. That said, progressives are pretty clueless when it comes to combating fascism. The far left has been telling progressives for quite a while how their way of handling this shit is not working, and look, a fascist is in office and the head of a party that has had fascist tendencies for a few decades now. And now they are reshaping the government to their bigoted ass world view. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Jones showing he is a spineless useless fuck. https://www.cnn.com/2018/07/08/politics/doug-jones-supreme-court-nominee-cnntv/index.html?sr=twCNNp070818doug-jones-supreme-court-nominee-cnntv0247PMStory&CNNPolitics=Tw Hey, I might vote for the nominee the bigoted sexual predator puts forward. Dems like Jones are fucking dinosaurs and garbage. Oh and look, more right wing hate crime violence. http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/396078-92-year-old-man-attacked-with-brick-told-to-go-back-to-your Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Week Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 5 minutes ago, Bonnot OG said: That said, progressives are pretty clueless when it comes to combating fascism. The far left has been telling progressives for quite a while how their way of handling this shit is not working, and look, a fascist is in office and the head of a party that has had fascist tendencies for a few decades now. And now they are reshaping the government to their bigoted ass world view. That should have been made even more abundantly clear with the human rights violations going on at the border -- somehow the WH seems like they are getting away with it. "Getting away with it" as in, at least, the continued employment and, as well as, the dearth of criminal proceedings for Kirstjen Nielsen, ICE, and contractors benefiting from in incarceration of children and families at the border. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 50 minutes ago, SweetPea said: Yeah, no. Progressives are more than willing to resort to violence and you know it. As a matter of fact, I really don't. More to the point, this is where the "dichotomy" in your head comes from. Of course if you believe progressives are at least as likely as conservatives to use violence (and thus, guns), then of course you'll find it hard to understand why they would tend to oppose gun rights. But the paradox is easy to resolve: one of your assumptions is wrong. And I think @Bonnot OG 's ideas on the matter should be a huge clue as to which one it is. Seriously, progressives tend to be a rather meek bunch. It's both our blessing and our curse. Our curse, because conservatives have no qualms about using dirty tactics in politics. A blessing, because if the left had been as low as the right these last décades there'd have been a civil war somewhere in the West at some point. In the US specifically, the Dems would have started confiscating guns at some point around 2009. That they didn't even move an inch in that direction should really tell you something. Now of course there are some people who are perfectly fine with violence on the left. I personally don't know any -these days- but I'll go out on a limb here and say that they are probably not as opposed to gun rights as the rest of us, on some level or the other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord of Rhinos Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 Are you folks trying to debut with someone who has a literal troll as his avatar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DanteGabriel Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 2 minutes ago, Lord of Rhinos said: Are you folks trying to debut with someone who has a literal troll as his avatar? The next rational argument and set of links will sway him, definitely! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 minute ago, Lord of Rhinos said: Are you folks trying to debut with someone who has a literal troll as his avatar? I admire the heck out of their determination to show to the world at large that they are trolls and nobody who matters agrees with them. It takes an enormous amount of energy, and I, for one -- though not the only one by any means -- salute them with all my respect and energy. This is all many of us can do due to age, infirmity, etc. and by golly, let us go for resistance however and whenever we can do it. And - o yah, fuck the trolls who are rampant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted July 9, 2018 Author Share Posted July 9, 2018 1 hour ago, Bonnot OG said: I see SweetPea is still blabbing their bs about and pushing their asinine false equivlances yet again. Hungry troll must be fed, apparently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maarsen Posted July 9, 2018 Share Posted July 9, 2018 10 minutes ago, LongRider said: Hungry troll must be fed, apparently. To feed a troll is one thing but sometimes one needs to dose the feed with bit of humour. SweatPee doesn't have an appetite for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mexal Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Gotta hand it to the DOJ. At least they're keeping us safe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serious Callers Only Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Remember this? The creepy father-daughter photos? That time that apparently (somehow or other, mostly by organizing and funding the things) he was able to enter the locking room of the 'miss teen universe' pageant? The by now, 30 accusations of sexual assault? I wonder what possible stuff Russia might have on the president and certain politicians. Also, obvious quisling does quisling stuff. edit: Ahhh, he was a child rapist too, i forgot. Quote Dershowitz provided legal assistance to millionaire Jeffrey Epstein, who was investigated following accusations that he had repeatedly solicited sex from minors. Dershowitz investigated some of Epstein's accusers and provided both the police and the State attorney’s office with a dossier containing information about plaintiffs' behavior, which had been obtained from their personal MySpace pages, including allegations of alcohol and drug use. Epstein eventually pleaded guilty in 2008 to a single state charge of soliciting prostitution and began serving an 18-month sentence. Quote one of his victims, Virginia Roberts, claimed in a federal court filing that Epstein recruited her as a "sex slave" at the age of 15 and "sexually trafficked [her] to politically-connected and financially-powerful people," including Prince Andrew and attorney Alan Dershowitz. (The latter, the filing claimed, had sex with the victim "on private planes"; Dershowitz vigorously denies the charges, as does Prince Andrew. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rippounet Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 I have a bit of free time tonight. Anyway, just a thought. Progressives need the state because they want it to provide evil things like education and healthcare to everyone. It puts them at a serious disadvantage because when people on the left are in power they want the institutions to function as well as possible, so they are more likely to try to use bipartisanship and consensus to pass legislation - which will only work with moderate conservatives. They will be reluctant to put the institutions themselves at risk by passing legislation that goes "too far." Even when they are not in power they want to be careful about preserving the state for the future, so there are limits to what they can advocate. 'tis why guys like Trump are such a disaster for the left when they get elected. They call into question the very institutions that it needs for progressive legislation. What can a progressive do when the state is no longer on their side? Not that much. Most will simply be resigned to wait for the next election. Any alternative would likely make things worse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 Seeing Pompeo get Rick Rolled by No. Korea really made my week. Why? Well right after 45 had his photo ops with KJU and signed the two page document of fluff, Pompeo brought his shit-head self to NPR. Quote When asked why the words "verifiable" and "irreversible" weren't included in the statement — words that form part of a State Department policy of "complete, verifiable, irreversible denuclearization," or CVID, before lifting sanctions on North Korea — Pompeo said, "I find that question insulting and ridiculous and frankly ludicrous." He said that the concepts were encompassed within the word "complete." And was pretty nasty about it. So when he got to No. Korea, things didn't go as planned and afterwards they seemed a bit snippy. Quote “The US side came up only with its unilateral and gangster-like demand for denuclearisation just calling for CVID, declaration and verification, all of which run counter to the spirit of the Singapore summit meeting and talks,” the statement said...... We thought that the US side would come with a constructive proposal which is with the spirit of the [North Korea-] US summit meeting and talks. But expectation and hope of ours were so naive as to be foolish,” it said. “It seems that the US misunderstood our goodwill and patience. The US is fatally mistaken if it went to the extent of regarding that the DPRK would be compelled to accept, out of its patience, the demands reflecting its gangster-like mindset.” While I doubt DPRK heard what he said on NPR, their comments were a delicious counterpoint to his hubris. https://www.npr.org/2018/06/13/619593113/pompeo-north-korea-will-take-major-steps-to-disarm-in-trumps-first-term https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jul/07/north-korea-calls-us-denuclearisation-talks-regrettable Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 When people talk about systemic racism, illustrated here is a kind of... I don't know, perhaps more of a behavioral example that's hard to argue with. ETA: wut, one sec... ah, here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 And... Kavanaugh is up. le sigh Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Richard II Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 We're fucked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JGP Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, Darth Richard II said: We're fucked. shhhhh... dude, Jace might hear you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongRider Posted July 10, 2018 Author Share Posted July 10, 2018 1 minute ago, JEORDHl said: shhhhh... dude, Jace might hear you. What does that matter now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Holy Sith! Posted July 10, 2018 Share Posted July 10, 2018 Will Trump Be Meeting With His Counterpart — Or His Handler? (New York Magazine) I think what we have here might be an extensive and detailed preview of what will be presented in Mueller's report this fall. Donald is not only colluding with Russia, he's Vlad's top agent. Quote Russian intelligence gains influence in foreign countries by operating subtly and patiently. It exerts different gradations of leverage over different kinds of people, and uses a basic tool kit of blackmail that involves the exploitation of greed, stupidity, ego, and sexual appetite. All of which are traits Trump has in abundance. Quote One might think this notoriety immunizes Trump from blackmail. Curiously, however, Trump’s tolerance for risk has always been matched by careful control over information. He maintains a fanatical secrecy about his finances and has paid out numerous settlements to silence women. The combination of a penchant for compromising behavior, a willingness to work closely with criminals, and a desire to protect aspects of his privacy makes him the ideal blackmail target. Quote Most Republicans would rather win an election with Putin’s help than lose one without it. The Democrats, brimming with rage, threaten to investigate Russian activity if they win a chamber of Congress this November. For Putin to redouble his attack — by hacking into voting machines or some other method — would be both strategic and in keeping with his personality. Why stop now? Holy shit! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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