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Better Call Saul -- Season 4 Better Get Emmy

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10 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Well, I still think this has been the weakest year.  It has had some great segments, but a lot of lulls.  Still think we didn't need to know about how the lab got built.  It's hard to imagine Werner could be that naive....

Homicidal Lalo very entertaining.  

Rhea better get a fucking Emmy. 

I agree, it was hard to suspend disbelief that Werner could be that naive. He was blindfolded to get in there, they are obviously breaking the law in a huge way, but hey, just run off. I also think Mike would have warned him more strongly before.

I thought it was a good season, but I have a similar problem with Kim getting teary eyed over Jimmy's I hope I can be as good as Chuck bit. He was laying it on so thick, and she knows better than anyone how Chuck screwed Jimmy over.

Maybe she could just see what it did to him, and it was hard to see that. I like the overall arc of the story, though. That he realized they'd never give him a chance, and he'd have to play it another way. And that he broke down when he realized this.

Also three cheers for the goldfish...

Edited by Le Cygne

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A terrific finale to the show's worst season (still great though). Like others who wrote here, I wish they'd give more screentime to Nachos; a tremendously fascinating character.

That shot with Mike shooting Werner gotta be the more gorgeous the show's ever had.

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The Werner thing, while heartbreaking, it didn't really ring true to me.  You arrive and have a bag put over your head, you're building a top secret lab for 1) guy who is equal parts assassin/cop 2) everyone else has distinct cartel vibe  3) money is no object....and yet he thinks he can leave and go to a resort for the weekend?  The fuck.  Mike definitely should have let him see his wife, which I'm sure he realizes and that makes it that much more awful...but it seemed a little bit of a false note and not enough pay off for ALL the time spent on it.

I was surprised that Kim believed his spiel, but then she loves him and wants him to succeed.

I can't see the show going more than 1 year though.

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7 hours ago, Le Cygne said:

I agree, it was hard to suspend disbelief that Werner could be that naive. He was blindfolded to get in there, they are obviously breaking the law in a huge way, but hey, just run off. I also think Mike would have warned him more strongly before.

I thought it was a good season, but I have a similar problem with Kim getting teary eyed over Jimmy's I hope I can be as good as Chuck bit. He was laying it on so thick, and she knows better than anyone how Chuck screwed Jimmy over.

Maybe she could just see what it did to him, and it was hard to see that. I like the overall arc of the story, though. That he realized they'd never give him a chance, and he'd have to play it another way. And that he broke down when he realized this.

Also three cheers for the goldfish...

Still alive!  I hope Kim leaves and takes goldfish w/her.

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3 hours ago, The Monkey said:

A terrific finale to the show's worst season (still great though). Like others who wrote here, I wish they'd give more screentime to Nachos; a tremendously fascinating character.

That shot with Mike shooting Werner gotta be the more gorgeous the show's ever had.

Agreed on all counts.  Mike shooting Werner was amazing.  Didn't seem real, seemed like something out of those Sin City movies.

Also agree with the consensus that this was a lull of a season, but still better than most everything on "television," and the finale was great.  Loved the cold open with Chuck actually showing Jimmy some brotherly love, loved Jimmy's desperate apology to the "shoplifter" applicant which forced him to confront his own status/situation, loved Mike and Lalo's cat and mouse game, and of course loved Jimmy calling an audible at the hearing and Kim's reaction after.

On the "believability" of Werner, I'd emphasize that those guys have been working - and thus isolated - for the better part of a year, right?  I don't know what I'd convince myself of if I had to do that.  Plus, I think Werner believed he had developed a good relationship with Mike, and in turn overestimated Mike's ability to give him a pass.  Anyway, that whole storyline was about Mike coming to grips with exactly who he's working for, it wasn't about the lab.  I agree it was an overused and even annoying tangent, but it made sense for Mike's arc this season.

36 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

I can't see the show going more than 1 year though.

Well, no idea if it will or not, but I think it should last only one more season.  Maybe do split/super-sized season like BB.  Saul has officially taken over, and now all that's left is to see how he destroys Jimmy's life.  In that way, it's almost exactly on the trajectory of BB at the end of season 4.

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Odenkirk: "At least that’s what he told himself eventually, there’s no way I’m getting in. As you can see in that one speech he gives to that young girl. He’s really talking to himself from 10 years before and he’s telling himself give up. Don’t even try. And it’s really sad because it’s heartbreaking. I feel like he’s just talking to a younger version of himself and every vestige of goodness that is remaining inside him, he’s shouting it down in that speech and it kills him to do it. And it’s heartbreaking to him. It breaks his own heart, too."

Gould: "It’s wonderful how upbeat he is there... It seems like it gives him a feeling of power. It gives him a feeling of effectiveness. He’s intoxicated at the end of the episode, it’s a champagne moment for him. When you see Kim’s reaction, there’s so much to it. There’s concern, there’s confusion, but I get the feeling when I watched the scene that Kim maybe having a premonition, it almost feels like in her gut, she feels where this is going and maybe that’s not so good...

"I think Jimmy’s story is a very different one from Walt’s because Walt was marked for death the first time we met him and as I said before where there’s life, there’s hope. Maybe the man who started off as Slippin’ Jimmy and James McGill and Saul Goodman and Gene, maybe he still has a shot at redemption. If we can find a way to tell that story, I think it’s a worthwhile story to tell."

https://variety.com/2018/tv/news/better-call-saul-finale-season-4-bob-odenkirk-1202970629/

I'd sure like to see the Gene story. Something's gotta give, he can't go on that way...

Edited by Le Cygne

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Yeah, I was really hoping for another Gene scene in the finale. Maybe something that explained that opening we got set during Breaking Bad this season where Francesca was told to call a number on a certain date. I agree with pretty much everything you guys have been saying. Lalo seems interesting but Nacho needs to stop disappearing for long stretches. I dunno what Lalo really got from his phone conversation with Werner. He must be dead by the events of Salud since Hector is said to be the last Salamanca. (I wonder if that other Salamanca who Jessie killed was his son?) I'm guessing we'll get a lot of Lalo vs. Mike next year ending with Mike taking him out. 

I enjoyed the season but I also dunno how they plotted this all out on paper and thought "that sounds awesome." If they wanted they probably could have covered 90% of this season with one of their montages. But hey I'm not gonna complain about more episodes of the show. 

Edited by RumHam

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Yeah, I missed seeing Nacho in the finale. Maybe the Mike and Nacho stories could have converged, then circled back to Jimmy's story next season.

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I found that really affecting, though in much more of a depressing/tragic way than I expected. Werner's fate wasn't that surprising, but like so many previous BB characters resulted as his decisions trapped him with few other endgames. 

Kim's expression as she realizes that Jimmy really is that "insincere" was heartbreaking. 

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1 hour ago, Le Cygne said:

Yeah, I missed seeing Nacho in the finale. Maybe the Mike and Nacho stories could have converged, then circled back to Jimmy's story next season.

Yeah, they are so detail oriented, I don't get why they don't have a "story" for him.  of course I've always been afraid Mike would have to kill him in the end...but maybe not, maybe he's the BCS "Jesse" and he gets out in the end.  It would be nice for SOMEONE in this universe to get redemption.  

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2 hours ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah, they are so detail oriented, I don't get why they don't have a "story" for him.  of course I've always been afraid Mike would have to kill him in the end...but maybe not, maybe he's the BCS "Jesse" and he gets out in the end.  It would be nice for SOMEONE in this universe to get redemption.  

My biggest fear is his father dies. It would be interesting to see what Mike would do if he caught them escaping to Canada. I would hope he'd let them go, Gus be damned.

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1 minute ago, Le Cygne said:

My biggest fear is his father dies. It would be interesting to see what Mike would do if he caught them escaping to Canada. I would hope he'd let them go, Gus be damned.

No half measures! 

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I was fishing around on Google to see if there were any reasons Michael Mando may not have been available for the last few episodes but film,game and TV wise nothing stood out besides a film called "the hummingbird bird contract" which might have clashed with this season's filming. He might be working on something that hasn't been announced. Also didn't realise he's a writer/director too.

Like others have said it just seems strange for his story to be left dangling from a writing team that's so meticulous otherwise.

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Apparently Michael Mando was shot in the leg in his 20s and he used that experience for the scene where Nacho was shot.

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Try to touch on a few things and comments others have had without quoting the hell out of the thread.

When watching the scene where Jimmy gives his Chuck speech we see Kims' reaction to it and wonder how she didn't know he was lying. We know he becomes Saul, she doesn't. At this point in time she still believes he wants to be a respected lawyer, so our view of the scene is totally different than hers.

The scene where Mike shoots Werner, I had same thought, seeing the light behind the ground/scenery was pretty cool. Also, Mike had to do it since it's his fault Werner got so comfortable. There were plenty of warning signs that Werner would never be able to keep quiet about this job. Also feel pretty good about the feeling I had about the phone conversation between Werner and his wife, it felt to me like there were codes in there and turns out Mike felt the same and there were. The question is, how many times did Werner sneak out, just two? Once where he found the money gram place with the fliers and and then to collect the money and meet her?

Lalo actually has a lot of information. He knows about the chicken farm, he knows about a major excavation and large concrete walls needing to be poured. He knows Mike is someone high up in Gus' organization. If he was to keep following Mike he will find the laundry place and equipment and figure out whats being built there. 

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3 hours ago, dbunting said:

Try to touch on a few things and comments others have had without quoting the hell out of the thread.

When watching the scene where Jimmy gives his Chuck speech we see Kims' reaction to it and wonder how she didn't know he was lying. We know he becomes Saul, she doesn't. At this point in time she still believes he wants to be a respected lawyer, so our view of the scene is totally different than hers.

The scene where Mike shoots Werner, I had same thought, seeing the light behind the ground/scenery was pretty cool. Also, Mike had to do it since it's his fault Werner got so comfortable. There were plenty of warning signs that Werner would never be able to keep quiet about this job. Also feel pretty good about the feeling I had about the phone conversation between Werner and his wife, it felt to me like there were codes in there and turns out Mike felt the same and there were. The question is, how many times did Werner sneak out, just two? Once where he found the money gram place with the fliers and and then to collect the money and meet her?

Lalo actually has a lot of information. He knows about the chicken farm, he knows about a major excavation and large concrete walls needing to be poured. He knows Mike is someone high up in Gus' organization. If he was to keep following Mike he will find the laundry place and equipment and figure out whats being built there. 

Yes.  Mike is definitely going to have to kill Lalo, and this may be the reason why the lab suspends it's operation for a few years.  

Good point about kim.

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Man, what a waste of a season. Forget about winning, I don’t think BCS even deserves to be nominated for an Emmy. Odenkirk does, though. He had several great scenes these past few episodes. Perhaps Seehorn, as well, but it depends on performances from other actresses.

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43 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yes.  Mike is definitely going to have to kill Lalo, and this may be the reason why the lab suspends it's operation for a few years.  

Good point about kim.

In Breaking Bad, doesn’t Saul say, “Lalo didn’t send you,” indicating he’s still alive?

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Just now, Dragon in the North said:

In Breaking Bad, doesn’t Saul say, “Lalo didn’t send you,” indicating he’s still alive?

He does but that just means Saul think's he's still alive. At one point Gus taunts Hector that Jessie killed the last Salamanca other than him. So Lalo should be dead by about halfway through season four of Breaking Bad. So it is technically possible he was still alive when we first meet Saul and he made that comment. 

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3 minutes ago, RumHam said:

He does but that just means Saul think's he's still alive. At one point Gus taunts Hector that Jessie killed the last Salamanca other than him. So Lalo should be dead by about halfway through season four of Breaking Bad. So it is technically possible he was still alive when we first meet Saul and he made that comment. 

Oh yeah, that’s true. Maybe he died offscreen at the pool party.

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