Football: Sarri state of affairs

[Iskaral Pust]

Burnely took at beating tonight.  3-1 away to Olympiacos.  Their EL adventure is in serious jeopardy. 

[Consigliere]

Unfortunate for Burnley. It's going to be difficult to overturn that 3-1 deficit but elimination might be a blessing in disguise as I don't think they have the squad depth to cope with Europa League + domestic competitions. We've seen many times where clubs with small squads overachieve in the league and get into Europe only to end up in a relegation battle the following season. 

[polishgenius]

Yeah, realistically speaking it's gonna be better for Burnley if they go out now. They didn't even really strengthen their squad in summer- the only players they got in were Ben Gibson off Boro and Matej Vydra from Derby. We've already seen it affect them- they properly ran out of steam second half against Watford.

[Tywin et al.]

It sounds like there's a decent chance I will be making a soccer pilgrimage to England in April to see United with a few friends. But holy hell those tickets are expensive. My flight will only be like $200 more. 

Is that what communism looks like? Here in America they've conditioned us to believe that it is. 

[Iskaral Pust]

12 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

It sounds like there's a decent chance I will be making a soccer pilgrimage to England in April to see United with a few friends. But holy hell those tickets are expensive. My flight will only be like $200 more. 

Is that what communism looks like? Here in America they've conditioned us to believe that it is. 

Don’t buy those tickets now.  Wait a few more weeks and there’ll be loads offered cheap by depressed season ticket holders. 

[Iskaral Pust]

Missing out on EL will definitely boost Burnley’s PL season, but their fans might have quite liked a long run in Europe paired with a fatigued PL survival.  It’s more of a spectacle, more of an event for a lifelong Burnley fan.  Not unlike Leicester in the CL.  They can always bounce back to mid table or better in following seasons.  Liverpool made the same choice when we sacrificed our PL finish to go deep in the EL and CL, and the fans were happy with it.

Perhaps they can win 2-0 at home but it sounds like Olympiakos was well on top tonight, and Burnley aren’t exactly free scoring.  

[Raja]

4 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

It sounds like there's a decent chance I will be making a soccer pilgrimage to England in April to see United with a few friends. But holy hell those tickets are expensive. My flight will only be like $200 more. 

Wait what. How much are you paying? 

[Jordan La Cabra]

I can understand that Burnley might be better set to survive in the Premier League without the fatigue that comes with playing extra games in the Europa League. At the same time, though, what have they got to aim for this season, then?

If they get dumped out of Europe at this stage, their main focus will be the Premier League, as from what I remember, they haven't gone far in the domestic cups in recent years. Usually, finishing lower in the league table than you did the season before is a sign of regression, so for Burnley to match last season, they will have to finish in the Europa League spots - a competition they might be happy to get knocked out of before it even begins. 

If Burnley finish this season in mid table, then it will have been a poorer league performance than last season, but will the club and the fans prefer to finish 10th than 5th, 6th or 7th as it means they will avoid European football and might have a better chance of staying in the Premier League in the 19/20 season?

Given the gulf between the 'top 6' and the rest of the league, coupled with Burnley's lack of investment compared to teams like Wolves, Everton and West Ham, means finishing in the European spots would be the best Burnley could aim for, realistically - unless they pull off a Leicester. If they don't want to qualify for the Europa League so they might have a better chance of staying in the Premier League, that reduces Burnley's goals going into a Premier League season to finishing no higher than 8th, or pulling off an incredible season in which they either qualify for the Champions League or win the title. 

Look back to Leicester's 16/17 season. They didn't retain their title, but few expected them to. At best, people hoped they might qualify for Europe again. So what turned out to be the highlight of their season was their run in the Champions League, which people may say hindered their league campaign. 

Burnley have been relegated twice from the Premier League alone, which is as many times as they’d played in Europe in their entire history prior to this season. This would be Burnley’s third foray into Europe, and their first since the Inter-City Fairs Cup in 1967, so chances of playing in Europe don’t come around very often for Burnley (their first appearance was the 1960/61 European Cup).

[Consigliere]

I'm sure Burnley fans would be mildly disappointed if they miss out on the EL group stages. A run in the EL would have been great for the fans but even if Burnley do somehow manage to overturn that deficit, the chances of them being  eliminated in the group stage are much more likely than them reaching the QF. At the end of the day, the expectations for a club like Burnley are very different. What they achieved in the league last season was great for them and I doubt the fans would be too disappointed if they don't finish that high again this season. I'm also fairly certain that their fans would prioritise league survival over a EL run.

Burnley's situation is in no way comparable to Liverpool. Liverpool had a deeper squad and could afford to put the league on the back burner to focus on the EL as they were never in any danger of getting dragged into a relegation battle. For Burnley, it already looks like the Thursday-Sunday schedule is starting to take a toll on them. If they get into the group stage, they will then need to cope with that schedule all the way to early December after which the domestic fixture congestion starts. They could very well be knackered halfway through the season. If they had the ambition to make a EL run then they needed to make 6-8 signings to strengthen the squad but they didn't do that. 

[lessthanluke]

12 hours ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

It sounds like there's a decent chance I will be making a soccer pilgrimage to England in April to see United with a few friends. But holy hell those tickets are expensive. My flight will only be like $200 more. 

Is that what communism looks like? Here in America they've conditioned us to believe that it is. 

I feel like you're looking in the wrong place if the tickets are only 200 dollars cheaper than flights from the U.S

[Tywin et al.]

14 hours ago, Iskaral Pust said:

Don’t buy those tickets now.  Wait a few more weeks and there’ll be loads offered cheap by depressed season ticket holders. 

The guy who is setting the trip up is a huge United fan so we’re doing something called the “Foreign Fan Experience.” It’s basically really good tickets plus a free tour and they throw us lunch and get us really drunk. At least that’s how he described it.

10 hours ago, Raja said:

Wait what. How much are you paying? 

I think it’s a little over $300 U.S.

2 hours ago, lessthanluke said:

I feel like you're looking in the wrong place if the tickets are only 200 dollars cheaper than flights from the U.S

We're good at finding dirty cheap international flights. We found round trip tickets to Germany for under $450 a few months back. 

[lessthanluke]

35 minutes ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

The guy who is setting the trip up is a huge United fan so we’re doing something called the “Foreign Fan Experience.” It’s basically really good tickets plus a free tour and they throw us lunch and get us really drunk. At least that’s how he described it.

I think it’s a little over $300 U.S.

We're good at finding dirty cheap international flights. We found round trip tickets to Germany for under $450 a few months back. 

Yeah you're paying for the whole experience I guess then. Last time I went to Old Trafford a ticket cost me 50 dollars.

[Raja]

1 hour ago, SpaceForce Tywin et al. said:

 

I think it’s a little over $300 U.S

Yeah. You're paying *way* more than I did for Arsenal. I know it's not the same, but I saw them 4 times over a month and never paid more than 80/90. I had different kinds of seats, once I was behind the goal, twice at the half way line. You really shouldn't be paying that much, but if you think it's worth it, I guess that's fine? 

[ljkeane]

37 minutes ago, Raja said:

Yeah. You're paying *way* more than I did for Arsenal. I know it's not the same, but I saw them 4 times over a month and never paid more than 80/90. I had different kinds of seats, once I was behind the goal, twice at the half way line. You really shouldn't be paying that much, but if you think it's worth it, I guess that's fine? 

Presumably if they're paying that much each they're getting a box and associated hospitality stuff.

ETA: Taking a quick look it seems like it starts at around £175 each for a group of 10 to get a box at the Emirates.

[polishgenius]

9 minutes ago, ljkeane said:

Presumably if they're paying that much each they're getting a box and associated hospitality stuff.

Yeah, looking around, looks like what SFT's mate has booked them into is a Matchday VIP experience, which is a box plus a load of bells and whistles before and after the game. Though there's nothing called a 'Foreign Fan experience' specifically on their website, so it's possible there's a third party involved.
 

[Raja]

Yeah, I assumed it was something like that. And honestly, if you're flying all the way there, I guess you might as well go all in if that's your thing.  I'll never forget my first game, I think it was against Newcastle. The biggest polish man I've ever seen gave me a bear hug, and I'm pretty big already. He must have been like 7 feet or something. 

[Iskaral Pust]

$300 per person for one of those matchday VIP packages isn't a shocker.  I paid similar for Liverpool vs. Villareal in 2016 (EL semi-final).  And by the way, that doesn't get you a box seat in the stadium.  It was a meal & drinks at a city hotel and then a coach bus to Anfield for seats in the Anfield Road stand (behind the goal, around the edge of the 18 yard box), so good seats but not amazing seats.  There wasn't even a tour of the stadium included.

I didn't buy that package for all the bells and whistles.  All I wanted was a match ticket.  The basic reality was that 220 sterling (~$300) per person was a good price to get match tickets for the biggest game of the season to that point.  If I tried to buy re-sold tickets online for less (I think 150-160 pounds) then there was a very high chance of being scammed with fake tickets.  If you're paying for expensive flights to the UK, you need to be confident that you will end up with reliable match tickets.

I would hope that a regular PL game would cost a lot less than a European semi-final, but I'm not surprised that clubs use those packages as a way to extract maximum price from tourists who are willing to pay a lot more than locals.

If I had access to a regular ticket, or even a re-sold season ticket seat, then I'd expect to pay 50-80 pounds for a really good seat.  And that reflects a possible premium for a tourist who cannot easily apply directly for tickets or who cannot be flexible with dates.  But it's hard for tourists to access those unless they're part of a recognized supporters club or have accumulated some loyalty points with the club over several years.

If I buy re-sold tickets as a local for the Bears, Blackhawks, Bulls or Cubs then I'd expect to pay $150 per seat easily (higher for Cubs) for nice seats.  And that's with the Bears and Bulls in the middle of a multi-year period of being terrible.  Although I could probably pick up some cheaper tickets mid season when it's clear the Bulls and Bears are stinking again.  The greater Chicago area has ~10 million people and only one team for each of the four major sports.  There is always demand for tickets.   Anfield, with almost the same capacity as Soldier Field (the Bears), serves a population that's probably a tenth of here.  And there are two soccer stadiums in the city of Liverpool. Football/soccer tickets are relatively less expensive and more accessible than major sports in the US.

[Raja]

Debating watching this WBA v Middlesbrough game

[Mark Antony]

2 minutes ago, Raja said:

Debating watching this WBA v Middlesbrough game

I’m watching the opening Bundesliga game. Bayern are so stacked they have Hummels, Goretzka, and James fucking Rodriguez on the bench

[A Horse Named Stranger]

And the obligatory penalty gift.

 

Back to Tywin's United experience. Just imagine you spent 300$ and a transatlantic fight to watch a Mourinho snoozefest. Well, at least it apparently includes getting drunk.