FIRE AND BLOOD EXCERPT

[Damon_Tor]

On 9/27/2018 at 12:58 PM, Lord Varys said:

Could also be. But I'm not sure why the people building the Wall would have wanted its magic to affect the dragons...?

It's likely the magic simply isn't precise enough to block magic A but allow magic B. Or maybe there's a "whitelist" for magic that's allowed to pass, and dragon's weren't added to it because they weren't really a thing yet.

Or we don't understand the wall and its builders entirely.

[AlaskanSandman]

Why don't the Others just by pass the Wall and cross the bridge of skulls? Its west of the Wall, so shouldn't the Magic not cover it? Could the humans really hold it against the undead? They had a hard enough time against the wildlings. 

[Lady Barbrey]

14 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Why don't the Others just by pass the Wall and cross the bridge of skulls? Its west of the Wall, so shouldn't the Magic not cover it? Could the humans really hold it against the undead? They had a hard enough time against the wildlings. 

For the same reason I gave above about the Others crossing ice floes is my opinion.  The Wall contains their magic North of the Wall.  Wights are created in the North, done deal, so could conceivably form an army and cross somewhere with the Others.  But what happens when they reach the South and daylight hits, they drop where they stand, and can be easily slaughtered?  The Other's real necromantic power is in being able to create more of them, likely from the enemies just slain.  But South of the Wall they're disconnected from their power source so they can't create more wights.

It's a supply logistics problem!

I think their only real solution is to bring down the Wall somehow, and I think They're working on it. Planting those ranger wights to be brought through seemed to me an experiment in their own control through the Wall.  Sending wights in huge numbers around the Wall in order to take out the NW from the undefended South, to better breech the Wall from there and bring it down that way might work I guess.  Planting the broken Horn of Joramun for a ranger to find and blow could have been part of a plan, too, though if so why didn't they fix it and blow it themselves would be my question.  At any rate, bringing down the Wall, if they want to penetrate far into Westeros, has to be a primary concern for them if this theory about the Wall constraining their magic to the Far North is true.

[AlaskanSandman]

3 minutes ago, Lady Barbrey said:

For the same reason I gave above about the Others crossing ice floes is my opinion.  The Wall contains their magic North of the Wall.  Wights are created in the North, done deal, so could conceivably form an army and cross somewhere with the Others.  But what happens when they reach the South and daylight hits, they drop where they stand, and can be easily slaughtered?  The Other's real necromantic power is in being able to create more of them, likely from the enemies just slain.  But South of the Wall they're disconnected from their power source so they can't create more wights.

It's a supply logistics problem!

I think their only real solution is to bring down the Wall somehow, and I think They're working on it. Planting those ranger wights to be brought through seemed to me an experiment in their own control through the Wall.  Sending wights in huge numbers around the Wall in order to take out the NW from the undefended South, to better breech the Wall from there and bring it down that way might work I guess.  Planting the broken Horn of Joramun for a ranger to find and blow could have been part of a plan, too, though if so why didn't they fix it and blow it themselves would be my question.  At any rate, bringing down the Wall, if they want to penetrate far into Westeros, has to be a primary concern for them if this theory about the Wall constraining their magic to the Far North is true.

Hmmm. Just considering Melisandre and loopholes to the Wall as Storm's End had. A way of sneaking by. 

[Lady Barbrey]

25 minutes ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Hmmm. Just considering Melisandre and loopholes to the Wall as Storm's End had. A way of sneaking by. 

I can't remember the details, but if it works similarly to the above, Melisandre had already worked the magic to conceive a shadow baby with Stannis outside the Walls of Storm's End. The magic's not in the birth but in the conception, so she acts more as a vessel to bring the shadow baby across the wards.  So she couldn't conceive the shadow baby in Storms End because her magic would have been blocked, and it couldn't cross the wards by itself as a creature of her magic, but she had access to her magic outside for the conception, could bring the baby across herself, and so could simply bring it forth once on the other side of the Wall.

Seems to work the same way.

Makes you wonder what might be inside the wombs of some of the Wildling women!  Trojan horses!

[AlaskanSandman]

Any one have any theories on what we may find out about Torhen? Torhen's Square, Rebellious Company of the Rose, Rebellious Sons, a forced marriage of his daughter to an Arryn, and a Bastard brother not serving at the Wall or in Essos as a sellsword. Rhaeny's sleeping with singers, and bards. Aegon visiting the Wall? Ive got nothing my self, just curious.

[Lord Varys]

4 hours ago, Springwatch said:

What cause for doubt is there? Jacaerys was a fifteen-year-old envoy, and his mother was so anxious for his safety that she made him swear an oath not to take part in any fighting. It follows that strong-arm tactics weren't authorised either.

It also seems out of character. The wiki says Jacaerys was 'charming, valiant, innovative, and responsible'. The books say 'The prince was so charming and his dragon so fearsome, that each of the lords he visited pledged support....'

Directly invading the lords' castles with the fearsome dragon would not have been charming. It would be parking tanks on the lords' lawns. It would be a reminder of Harrenhal. Not a likely tactic for the queen's messenger.

[ETA  - Storm's End was considered a friendly castle, already, so the invitation for Lucerys to land inside could be inferred.]

Not temporal power. I was thinking of the queens' fire/sun heritage, and the whole battle of ice and fire thing. No worries.

That is all true, but we don't know Vermax/Jace were invited to Winterfell. Jace just flew there, just as Luke and Aemond flew to Storm's End. Nobody announced they were coming or cared whether the lords there wanted a dragon in their castle or not. Alysanne was polite considering that Lord Alaric was actually expecting her and Jaehaerys. Cregan and Borros weren't expecting any dragonrider envoys.

4 hours ago, hiemal said:

That seems likely. It makes me wonder about the lives and wives of the various reformers and the following reactionaries that seem to keep popping up. I'm afraid my knowledge fails me but both Jahaeryses (Jaharii?), as well as Daeron II and Aegon V and possibly Baelor (?) and maybe even Aenys (??) might fall into the former category? Anyways, just more idle speculation. Can you tell I'm a little excited?

Jaehaerys II was conservative, not reformist. Daeron II was a great king but we don't know whether he reformed anything (could very well be), Baelor was a ridiculous nut case implementing religious reforms/changes - one still wonders how Viserys prevented the rearming of the Faith during that era. Baelor may not have been a martial king but the High Septons/Most Devouts certainly of his reign should certainly have tried to convince him to set Maegor's laws aside.

Would be fun if Viserys acted sort of like the sane people in the Trump administration these days. Steal decrees from his desk before he can stamp them, and distract him with other pious projects.

Quote

I have to admit I'm drawing a blank here but I'm really curious. Rule of Six?#

Check it out on the wiki. Queen Rhaenys basically made a judgment against the right of a husband to beat an adulterous wife to death.

Quote

Probably just my tendency to read too much into things, but the feeling I got was that Alysanne was very canny about her matchmaking not both on the political and personal side. For example, by opening Alaric up to the idea of marriage ties with Southrons who kept the Old Gods due to her personal charm and reasoning abilities she opened up a new realm of potential alliances and ties. Her power is considerable and I am perhaps overeager to tie it into a larger tinfoil network before so many more puzzle pieces are dumped into our laps.

The match-making thing was already done by Rhaenys and Visenya. This was part of the Targaryen project of binding the Realm together.

@Lady Barbrey

George compared Alysanne to Eleanor of Aquitaine, but these two women actually don't have much in common. Alysanne wasn't a ruler in her own right, Alysanne wasn't married to two kings, Alysanne didn't have four sons, Alysanne did fight with her sons against her father, Alysanne was never imprisoned by her husband, nor did she outlive her husband and play an important role during the reign of her sons.

She is perhaps the greatest queen in the history of Westeros, along with Visenya and Rhaenys, but she is not as interesting as Elaenor of Aquitaine.

2 hours ago, Damon_Tor said:

It's likely the magic simply isn't precise enough to block magic A but allow magic B. Or maybe there's a "whitelist" for magic that's allowed to pass, and dragon's weren't added to it because they weren't really a thing yet.

Or we don't understand the wall and its builders entirely.

Then it is really strange that skinchangers, greenseers, and Melisandre can pass through the Wall.

The Wall was designed for a very specific purpose, it seems to me, unlike Storm's End which really seems to be warded against all magical attacks (although not dragons).

[Khal Rhaego Targaryen]

I believe Dany and her dragons are and always were predestined to go beyond the Wall.

[Lady Barbrey]

@Lord Varys

I have never seen GRRM do an exact replica of any character.  Have you? Why do you think this should be an exception? He has chosen a few things for Alysanne from another Queen Eleanor of England, Eleanor of Castile, as well (who did have the long happy marriage, myriad kids, was known as Good Queen Eleanor, but had a uniquely bad habit for a queen of appropriating other people's lands - hello New Gift!), and probably other historical figures too. That does not mean Eleanor of Aquitaine did not inspire his character of Alysanne, and in fact George tells us she did, and when, after that remark, he gives Alysanne a unique Court of Women when Eleanor is uniquely remembered for her Court of Love,  the reason for drawing the comparison should be self-evident.

I've published papers on courtly love so I know all about Eleanor, and you're right Alysanne can't compare.  But I'm glad George said to imagine her in The Lion of Winter as the basis for Alysanne because it gives Alysanne a depth of character for me that he doesn't really have time or space to develop in these vignettes.

 

 

 

 

[Lady Barbrey]

4 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

Any one have any theories on what we may find out about Torhen? Torhen's Square, Rebellious Company of the Rose, Rebellious Sons, a forced marriage of his daughter to an Arryn, and a Bastard brother not serving at the Wall or in Essos as a sellsword. Rhaeny's sleeping with singers, and bards. Aegon visiting the Wall? Ive got nothing my self, just curious.

I am intensely interested in that Dornish letter to Aegon.  I hope it says something about that.  

[AlaskanSandman]

20 minutes ago, Lady Barbrey said:

I am intensely interested in that Dornish letter to Aegon.  I hope it says something about that.  

Agreed, and after learning more about Alysanne, i can't wait to learn more about Visenya. Different temperament, but equally as powerful it seems

[Lady Barbrey]

5 hours ago, Lord Varys said:

Then it is really strange that skinchangers, greenseers, and Melisandre can pass through the Wall.

The Wall was designed for a very specific purpose, it seems to me, unlike Storm's End which really seems to be warded against all magical attacks (although not dragons).

So does this all make sense if we put skinchanged animals and dragons in one group, and shadowbabies and wights in another? I mean there's no really active magic involved with those animal bonds, it's an innate supernatural quality to the skinchanger or Dragon rider.

[Curled Finger]

On 9/30/2018 at 8:18 AM, hiemal said:

/drool. I have to say this morsel really does make me hungry for more.

Late to the party,  but my two coppers on Silverwing and the Wall:

I think, and have thought, that the Wall must be more than a simple barrier that only prevents movement of objects, entities, and energy through the space that it physically occupies. It seems to block weirwood-related abilities (except when it doesn't) as well as ice-related magic (except when it doesn't). It seems to be made primarily of ice magic but it also strengthens rather than dampens fire magic if Melisandre is to believed. It is said to be a barrier against the Others, but could only really be said to be effective against their undead minions as a physical obstacle since their animating magic can survive a trip through the Wall itself and effective in unknown ways against the Others themselves who are obviously clever enough to go around, under, or over the Wall as suits them unless there is something more at play. The abilities of skinchangers can apparently be stymied, unless a greenseer links into the weirnet which either overcomes the hurdle by way of roots going under the Wall or simply by existing partially beyond linear time and space or by skinchanging into a flying animal and physically flying over the Wall. Varamyr was flying very near the Wall and no mention was made of any antipathy, at least. The last Greenseer's thousand eyes and one could possibly make the trip as well- those that don't roost at Raventree, anyways. It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in miles of enchanted ice.

Dragons seem more akin to me to the Others rather than their minions- the description of the death of Ice Dragons in TWoIaF compared to the death of a WW at Samwell's hands makes me think that they are in fact the same substance, that all White Walkers are Others but that not all Others are "sculpted" to look like humans and that something similar might be in play with dragons and their riders. The Wall would not affect the bond a dragon and her rider, i suspect, because it is not psychically manifested in the first place but it might interfere with the dragon itself in some way that is bound up with Ice and apparently Fire magic that went into raising and maintaining the Wall. Or, as surmised elsewhere, Silverwing could be responding to the presence of the Others somewhere beyond the Wall. Valyria was already centuries ashes and the empire of Ice presumably on the rise, so perhaps a dragon could sense their hateful industry beyond that high horizon but a third possibility should be mentioned; that the Wall enforces/creates an existential boundary that alters the very nature of reality on either side- writing in blood on the map of the world, "here there be dragons and here there be Others".

Only you could come up with that potential connection between the Others and dragons.   Well done--certainly worth considering in light of this surprising Wall/dragon intel.    

[AlaskanSandman]

39 minutes ago, Curled Finger said:

On 9/30/2018 at 8:18 AM, hiemal said:

/drool. I have to say this morsel really does make me hungry for more.

Late to the party,  but my two coppers on Silverwing and the Wall:

I think, and have thought, that the Wall must be more than a simple barrier that only prevents movement of objects, entities, and energy through the space that it physically occupies. It seems to block weirwood-related abilities (except when it doesn't) as well as ice-related magic (except when it doesn't). It seems to be made primarily of ice magic but it also strengthens rather than dampens fire magic if Melisandre is to believed. It is said to be a barrier against the Others, but could only really be said to be effective against their undead minions as a physical obstacle since their animating magic can survive a trip through the Wall itself and effective in unknown ways against the Others themselves who are obviously clever enough to go around, under, or over the Wall as suits them unless there is something more at play. The abilities of skinchangers can apparently be stymied, unless a greenseer links into the weirnet which either overcomes the hurdle by way of roots going under the Wall or simply by existing partially beyond linear time and space or by skinchanging into a flying animal and physically flying over the Wall. Varamyr was flying very near the Wall and no mention was made of any antipathy, at least. The last Greenseer's thousand eyes and one could possibly make the trip as well- those that don't roost at Raventree, anyways. It's a riddle wrapped in an enigma, wrapped in miles of enchanted ice.

Dragons seem more akin to me to the Others rather than their minions- the description of the death of Ice Dragons in TWoIaF compared to the death of a WW at Samwell's hands makes me think that they are in fact the same substance, that all White Walkers are Others but that not all Others are "sculpted" to look like humans and that something similar might be in play with dragons and their riders. The Wall would not affect the bond a dragon and her rider, i suspect, because it is not psychically manifested in the first place but it might interfere with the dragon itself in some way that is bound up with Ice and apparently Fire magic that went into raising and maintaining the Wall. Or, as surmised elsewhere, Silverwing could be responding to the presence of the Others somewhere beyond the Wall. Valyria was already centuries ashes and the empire of Ice presumably on the rise, so perhaps a dragon could sense their hateful industry beyond that high horizon but a third possibility should be mentioned; that the Wall enforces/creates an existential boundary that alters the very nature of reality on either side- writing in blood on the map of the world, "here there be dragons and here there be Others".

That reminds me of something some one was saying to me (Id have to check my comment's thread) about the Others and the Shadow baby Mel births as both being the same. One a white shadow and the other a dark shadow. Ill have to find their comment and post it while tagging them. It's been in my head since they said it, and this fits well with it

[Rhaenys_Targaryen]

9 hours ago, RumHam said:

Not a book quote, but apparently the app says the Lord Commander left the Nightfort for Castle Black six hundred years ago, and the Nightfort was abandoned two hundred years ago.

 

 

The app states that CB became the seat of the LC after the Nightfort was abandoned, but as the thread states, the statement from the app needs correcting (and will be in a next update). The Nightfort was abandoned two hundred years ago. But when the commander of the Nightfort went to war against another six hundred years ago, the LC had to come, indicating that the LC no longer had the Nightfort for his seat.

 

The Nightfort hasn't been the seat of the LC for at least six hundred years, if not more. The app does, however, confirm that the Nightfort used to be the LC's seat, though.

[Lady Barbrey]

3 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That reminds me of something some one was saying to me (Id have to check my comment's thread) about the Others and the Shadow baby Mel births as both being the same. One a white shadow and the other a dark shadow. Ill have to find their comment and post it while tagging them. It's been in my head since they said it, and this fits well with it

Well, I'm certainly not likely the only one who has thought of that,but I did do a write up on Melisandre and the Night's Queen being fire and ice sorceress counterparts, one giving birth to black shadows, the other giving birth to white shadows (the Others are called white shadows in the books). The parallels and even some of the phrasing are almost uncanny when you look at them, the Red Eyed Witch and the Blue Eyed Witch.  Even their eye colour reflects their magic. One seduces Stannis, the other the Lord Commander and the phrasing of taking his seed was almost identical.  I made the point then that the difference is fire consumes, ice preserves, so the black shadows/Shadow babies are consumed in their own magic while the white shadows/Others are preserved in ice magic.

Unfortunately a number of my topic posts seem to have completely disappeared or I'd link you in.  It was called Melisandre and the Night's Queen.  Do you recall it? I haven't really posted on Westeros for 2 or 3 years so it would be at least that long ago. What am I saying, of course you don't recall it lol with the myriad posts you've likely read!  It's just sad and my own fault because I remember being told to back up posts before they did something to the site, and I just didn't bother.

Just googled and Durran Durrandon did a post called One God, Two Gods, Red God, Blue God that has almost the exact same premise.  You should be able to find it on this forum.  Cheers!  It's an excellent read.  He's the same guy who came up with the Amethyst Empress theory.

[Valyrian Lance]

14 hours ago, Nina DarkSister said:

I believe Dany and her dragons are and always were predestined to go beyond the Wall.

So you don't think the wall will come down or the white walkers will somehow get through the wall before Dany and her dragons enter the fray.

[hiemal]

14 hours ago, AlaskanSandman said:

That reminds me of something some one was saying to me (Id have to check my comment's thread) about the Others and the Shadow baby Mel births as both being the same. One a white shadow and the other a dark shadow. Ill have to find their comment and post it while tagging them. It's been in my head since they said it, and this fits well with it

I certainly think they are related, but the shadow babies lack of stability reeks of blood magic to me. I speculate that the Amethyst Empress became Night's Queen after her untimely death and that she may be the first one to impress a human shape on the Others in the same way that I think the Bloodstone Emperor became R'hlorr and imposed his will on dragonkind and created dragonriders by way of his child Azor Ahai. Perhaps a shadow baby is created by forcing a soul by means of blood magic into an unstable elemental matrix (shadows- the children of fire)- the usual fire and blood?

[Ckram]

On 10/3/2018 at 5:46 PM, RumHam said:

apparently the app says the Lord Commander left the Nightfort for Castle Black six hundred years ago, and the Nightfort was abandoned two hundred years ago.

Thank you very much. The "apparently" part made your comment very accurate.

[Seams]

 

Quote

... the notoriously prickly Lord of Winterfell

"You are too hard on yourself, Ned. You always were. Damn it, no woman wants Baelor the Blessed in her bed." He slapped a hand on his knee. "Well, I'll not press you if you feel so strong about it, though I swear, at times you're so prickly you ought to take the hedgehog as your sigil."

(AGoT, Eddard II)

Quote

Queen Alysanne provided the solution. She would go ahead as planned, alone, whilst the king played host to the Prince and Archon.

Robert was flushed and exhilarated as Ned reined up beside him. "Gods," he swore, laughing, "it feels good to get out and ride the way a man was meant to ride. I swear, Ned, this creeping along is enough to drive a man mad."

(AGoT, Eddard II)

Quote

Manderly also staged a small tourney in the queen’s honor, to show the prowess of his knights. One of the fighters (though no knight) was revealed to be a woman, a wildling girl who had been captured by rangers north of the Wall and given to one of Lord Manderly’s household knights to foster. Delighted by the girl’s daring, Alysanne summoned her own sworn shield, Jonquil Darke, and the wildling and the Scarlet Shadow dueled spear against sword whilst the northmen roared in approval.

"Ser Colen," Catelyn said to her escort, "who is this man, and why do they mislike him so?"

Ser Colen frowned. "Because he is no man, my lady. That's Brienne of Tarth, daughter to Lord Selwyn the Evenstar."

"Daughter?" Catelyn was horrified.

(ACoK, Chapter 22, Catelyn II)

"Brienne, I have taken many wellborn ladies into my service over the years, but never one like you. I am no battle commander."

". . . I am yours, my lady. Your liege man, or . . . whatever you would have me be. I will shield your back and keep your counsel and give my life for yours, if need be. I swear it by the old gods and the new."

(ACoK, Chapter 39, Catelyn V)

So the Lord of Winterfell, Alaric, is like his descendant, Eddard, in being prickly. Alysanne may be like King Robert in wanting to get away from King's Landing and from her spouse (although Jaehaerys is not in a wheel house, as Cersei was, but is overseeing a diplomatic crisis in the capital). And Alysanne is both compared to Catelyn and contrasted with her: Catelyn is horrified that a woman is fighting in a melee, while Alysanne is delighted to see women in combat. Catelyn soon comes around, and accepts Brienne's oath of service. Renly's men mislike Brienne's participation in the melee as well, but the northmen approve of the women fighting each other at the Manderly tourney.

The name Jonquil is associated with Sansa, through her Florian and Jonquil role playing with Ser Dontos and, perhaps, with Brienne through the story of Galladon and the Maiden, which seems to be a variation on the Jonquil story. The name Darke is also associated with Brienne, as the woman who repaints her shield in Duskendale is a Darke descendant and claims a distant relationship to House Darklyn. It sounds as if Jonquil Darke's nickname is The Scarlet Shadow. That does not have a strong Brienne association, that I can think of. It does seem reminiscent of Melisandre. Combat with a wildling also seems symbolic of Melisandre's relationship with the free folk, after she forces them to participate in the burning of a weirwood tree.

The initial description of Alaric as he meets Alysanne has a lot of Craster references: complaining about the cost of feeding a big entourage, the reference to an axe (in describing the qualities of his late wife), even the marriage to a Mormont - there is a weird wedding vibe in Jeor's gift of an axe to Craster, having to do with Asha Greyjoy's description of a thrown axe as her wedded husband (and a dirk as her suckling babe). Lord Stark even describes his daughter as being attractive and he resists the idea of his children marrying outside of his faith. He wants his sons to take vows before a heart tree. Is that similar to Craster's religion of sacrificing his sons?

I'm not sure what to make of Lady Stark's slaying of two wolves when she was twelve. Seems more of a Bolton allusion than a Mormont behavior. We had the earlier reference to Lord Stark having not moved his bowels since he was twelve. Constipation is usually associated with Tywin Lannister.

Alaric shows Alysanne the bones of a giant. This seems like a Rattleshirt reference, as he wears a giant's skull as a helmet and he keeps a lot of bones around. Not long ago, I started to wonder whether giants are symbols of Targaryens - Maester Aemon says that Tyrion is a giant; Donal Noye (who made Robert's warhammer) is killed by a giant who he kills in the tunnel (= ruby ford?). Earlier, I came to see Rattleshirt as a symbolic version of Ned (contrasting with Mance as a symbolic version of Rhaegar) in Jon's story line. So this seems to fit: if Alaric is a symbolic Ned / Rattleshirt, he is showing Alysanne the bones of her own ancestor. That also fits with the notion of Lord Stark as the king of the underworld - he would have access to bones and other death-related things.

Of course, we will see Ygritte introduce Jon Snow to giants when he infiltrates the wildling camp. She sings him a song about giants at one point.

Alaric finally approaching Silverwing seems like something to do with the horse Khal Drogo gives to Dany - that horse is known as Dany's silver.

I don't see Alaric refusing to invite the dragon within the walls of Winterfell as a direct reference to Dany's dragons. It feels more like situations where people tell the Starks they may not bring their direwolves inside somewhere. The line is this: "He then proceeded to declare that he did not want her dragon inside his walls." We know what is inside the Winterfell walls: hot water from the natural hot springs, providing heat for the castle during the winter. (The other thing between the walls is Bran Stark, who discovers secret passages through the castle complex before he loses the ability to walk.) So the ultimatum about keeping the dragon out of Winterfell has more to do with Alaric being frozen and cold but gradually thawing as Alysanne charms him, melting his frozen heart.

The second part of Alaric's dragon ban is: “I’ve not seen Harrenhal, but I know what happened there.” I think this is beside the point, as the dragon inflicted its damage on Harrenhal from above, without landing inside the castle.

As for Silverwing not wanting to fly beyond the Wall, we know that a brother of the Night's Watch has to open the Black Gate to allow people to use it. As @Ran pointed out earlier in this thread, the Others seem to use the Night's Watch to carry the dead bodies into Castle Black, where they come to life and attack Mormont, Jon and Ghost. I think Gilly and her baby are magical and the direwolf Summer is also magical. So Sam Tarly was needed to open that special gate where humans and certain types of magical beings can cross the great divide. (Apparently, Coldhands cannot use the Black Gate, even with the right escort.) Maybe Alysanne will find someone who can enable Silverwing to cross. Or maybe solving the task of getting a dragon across the Wall will be left to Daenerys. There is a lot of dragon hatching symbolism in the Dunk & Egg story set at the tourney at White Walls. Maybe that story holds clues about "hatching" a dragon into the area beyond the Wall.

Just before reading this excerpt, I had put together some thoughts about people who scale walls - Ser Barristan at Duskendale; Thoros of Myr and Ser Jorah at Pyke (along with Old Nan's grandson, who died in that battle); Amory Lorch and Ser Gregor at the storming of the Red Keep, etc. I think that people who are "first over the wall" may derive special powers from that act. Ser Jorah gave his superman performance at the tourney after crossing that wall, and Thoros is surprised to discover that he can resurrect dead people; Ser Gregor can apparently function without his head. I guess my point here is that climbing up and then crossing the Wall may be reserved for certain characters with great or unique destinies. (Although the restrictions may apply only to people approaching from the south, as wildlings seem to make that over-the-top crossing fairly often.)

I look forward to learning more about Alysanne and her adventures in the north!