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Mwm

Can you recommend any book series where the characters are as amazing as ASOIAF?

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37 minutes ago, john said:

Btw, there’s a guy called Hobb in the Night’s Watch.  I suppose that just emerged organically too. :rolleyes:

And Terry Pratchett's Discworld too, if I am not misremembering all 40+ books? 

 

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On 1/21/2019 at 2:28 PM, IlyaP said:

In answer to your request, Mwm: 

 

I found the characters in Daniel Abraham's 'Dagger and Coin' pentalogy to be extremely interesting. Like Martin, each chapter is written from a different point of view. And the series is finished as well, so you won't be left waiting for any sequels. 

Further to this, Jay Kristoff's 'Nevernight' trilogy is exceptionally well-written and engaging and utilises a colourful, and day I say even "baroque" style of prose. It's great stuff. 

You know I’ll be honest when I read the first couple of POV chapters for Gerder I kinda thought he’d be the Sam of the story. He was fat, socially awkward, and a bit of nerd, and showed insecurity in himself as well as express concern on how his failures may reflect his father. I have to say I like what Abram did with him instead.

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9 hours ago, IlyaP said:

And Terry Pratchett's Discworld too, if I am not misremembering all 40+ books? 

Actually, I may have been overly keen with that eye rolling smiley there, sorry about that.  On reflection, all the other authors Martin mentions are great lords like Jordayne of Tor or Titus of Peake whereas Hobb is a three fingered, bad cook.  So maybe just a coincidence after all.

I don’t recall any Hobb in discworld though, there is a Jeremy Clockson.

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12 hours ago, john said:

Me get a life? I’m not the one trawling the internet desperate to find out whether Robin Hobb could have possibly read GoT before it was published.  News flash, fantasy authors are inspired by each other in a myriad of ways but you are getting upset because somebody dared to suggest that Martin and/or Hobb might owe the smallest of debts to the other. You should celebrate it, not see it as ripping off the other. In short, you need to reinput your “data,” mate.

Btw, there’s a guy called Hobb in the Night’s Watch.  I suppose that just emerged organically too. :rolleyes:

If I’m being honest, I misread your post and thought you were saying the evidence showed Hobb stole from Martin not the other way around. My “even handed” comment was meant to mean they both had each other’s. 

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Fair enough, apologies for the added snark.  I do genuinely think one or other of them might have got inspiration from those specific scenes I mentioned.  I thought it was Martin but since it’s been pointed out that he wrote his first draft in 92 or whatever, maybe it was Hobb.  Doesn’t matter, to reiterate I don’t have a problem with it, in fact I think it’s kind of cool.  I was just pointing out that I think those books have more specific similarities than the vague ones about wolves or zombie people.

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On 1/21/2019 at 8:51 PM, briantw said:

Well, to be fair, in Fire & Blood, the fictional author of the book (don't recall his name off-hand) mentions that they aren't sure if the weather pattern was always the way it is at the time of his writing.  He says it is theorized based on the stars in the sky that, at some point in history, seasons were consistent.  However, there is no proof.

Obviously, knowing what we know as readers of the series, and thus access to a much broader viewpoint than this character, along with how seasons work on our planet, we assume that something threw the seasons out of whack.  But we lack the proof just the same as the fictional man writing Fire & Blood.

I think the discussion was regarding how evolution had adapted on the ASoIaF world versus how it had in the Helliconia series. My point was that in evolutionary terms, the time elapsed since the situation changed is too brief for evolution to have really taken hold (unlike in Helliconia).

 

Quote

 

As for Robin Hobb, look at the pub dates, ok?  I know people hate history because the haters says its all about dates, but without dates, nobody knows wtf.

 

Yes, we've read the dates. A Game of Thrones was completed in its entirety, and the author was well into A Clash of Kings, long before GRRM read Assassin's Apprentice.

Edited by Werthead

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Independent fantasy often gets the short end of the stick despite some of the best novels of the 2010s coming out from it. THE GREY BASTARDS was, before its traditional publication, a self-published novel. I also give props to WHERE LOYALTIES LIE by Rob Hayes, KINGS OF PARADISE by Richard Nell, and DAMOREN by Seth Skorkowsky.

But today I want to recommend one of my all-time favorite independent fantasy novels that I think everyone needs to pick up: The Rhenwars Saga by M.L.Spencer which is what I call "Grimlite" in that it's a book that deals with all of grimdark's themes of moral ambiguity, cynicism, prejudice, and war crimes without any harsh language or sex. I'm sure she could have put some in there but sadly she pulled it off anyway. It's a wonderful deconstruction of high fantasy begging with its prequel DARKSTORM that has a ragtag band of misfits FAIL to save the world followed by the adventures of the semi-sane self-righteous protagonist Darien as he struggles to be the big hero of a setting that needs LESS Chosen Ones of Mass Destruction.

Here's my review of this awesome series opening book.

http://booknest.eu/reviews/charles/706-darkmage

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1 hour ago, C.T. Phipps said:

I'm sure she could have put some in there but sadly she pulled it off anyway.


Wait what? It's sad that she's good enough to write a book that engaged you without sex and swearing?

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4 minutes ago, polishgenius said:


Wait what? It's sad that she's good enough to write a book that engaged you without sex and swearing?

Yeah that one confused me too.

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2 hours ago, polishgenius said:


Wait what? It's sad that she's good enough to write a book that engaged you without sex and swearing?

It's a deliberate joke about grimdark.

But yes, she chooses to write in the grimdark genre (or advertises in it) because it sells much better than simply selling as fantasy.

It's just....not full of traditional grimdark sex, swearing, and violence.

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9 minutes ago, polishgenius said:



Is this even remotely true?

That seems like possible a wert question. But just thinking of the fantasy books I see in the bestsellers section I’d say no.

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1 hour ago, Darth Richard II said:

That seems like possible a wert question. But just thinking of the fantasy books I see in the bestsellers section I’d say no.

Are any of them self-published?

;)

What sells for smaller publishers is not necessarily true for the Big Five.

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Well, self published novels that hit it big include Isselington, Bancroft, Anthony Ryan, and hmmm I’m missing one. But none of those outside of Ryan strike me as grimdark. 

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5 hours ago, Nabarg said:

If you are referring to Blood Song, I don’t think Ryan was grimdark at all.

Ryan often posts in grimdark communities.

Mind you, I feel like a lot of fandom discussions have difficulty about "grimdark" because fans believe it means, "gritty adult fantasy" and non-fans believe it means, "gorn."

And neither side seems to be giving ground.

Edited by C.T. Phipps

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Then I guess you think Robin Hobb is grimdark to? Blood Song was less dark than the Farseer trilogy.

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4 hours ago, End of Disc One said:

I didn't know Islington started out self published.  Michael J. Sullivan is a big one and far from gimdark.

Michael J. Sullivan moved to traditional publishing.

He's also not the only one as THE GREY BASTARDS was a great work of indie grimdark that got picked up for movement into traditional publishing.

Mark Lawrence is a great guy with the Self-Published Fantasy Blog Off that helps authors of all fantasy move to higher prominence. I'm a judge of it and while I prefer grimdark works, I know that many mainstream fans of fantasy compete a well.

Edited by C.T. Phipps

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