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Rant and Rave Without Repercussion End of The World Edition [Spoilers]

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3 minutes ago, Bear42 said:

This series is closer to a Transformer movie than the Song of Ice and Fire.  Speaking of which the dragon fight was just like a scene in Transformers.  Who is fighting, what am I looking at, who just got bit, who just got clawed?  No idea, just a whirlwind of cgi and quick cuts from one angle to another until I feel like I'm watching the inside of a washing machine full of clothes that are all just different shades of black.  The rest of my gripes...

Yep. There were so many scenes when I thought The NK was coming to attack Jon only to have it be Dany on Drogon. Then vice versa with Jon coming out of nowhere when Dany was on scene. Then they show dragons land with no idea of which one it is. Which dragon is biting which. There was no semblance of space and location and where the dragons were in relation to Winterfell.

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Posted (edited)
10 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah, but why would he do that?  He already counseled  her several times NOT to burn King's Landing.  Fuck, if she had burned KL from the start then all our fav characters including Viserion would still be alive, the Dothraki would be alive.  Dany would have had control of all the armies of Westeros.

I have no idea! But it all points to tyrion thinking he needs to burn KL… And it will make last season even stupidier because the whole point was that they didn t want to burn it...

But again, we are talking about the battle no one wants to see where all the good guys will fight a bunch of people nobody knows! Who wants to see the GC die? lannister soldiers? Even euron doesn t look that bad… He killed the sand snakes and just wanted to fuck a queen...

The only people worth killing in KL are cersei, the mountain and qyburn… The rest is filler.

Edited by divica

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Posted (edited)

I'm really angry that Bran's, Jon's and even Dany's story now all have the scent of fish....herring to be precise, and specifically of the Red-tinted variety.

All the great and classic mythological elements of their respective story-lines just thrown out the window, and for what? For the sake of a cool moment that felt more like pandering. Like other's have said...what was the point of Bran's whole story? What is the point of a 3-eyed Raven anyway? What did Jojen, Hodor and Summer give their lives for? For Bran to become the 'Memories of Humanity?' Uhhh....Westeros had that already....they're called Libraries FFS! Groooan.....

A story's mythology has to have some significance at the end of the day, imo. It can't all be used to just deflect attention away from a surprise. While I agree that there's still some significant things for Jon, Dany and Bran to do....the payoff has been lost. They all had to be magically endowed just to beat Cersei? We spent 8 years being hyped up for what... an hour and twenty minute Zombie slash-fest? I agree that Jon and Dany still did epic hero things; the night couldn't have been won without them.... but to both be made impotent against the Prime big baddie himself, right at the moment when the shite was hitting the fan at high speed? This is a monstrous let-down to me. I feel they even cheapened Theon's death too because as it's turned out, if he waited for a few seconds longer, he'd have been fine.

I've been waiting to see cool female heroes who could fight/ deal magic just as well as (or even better) the guys in fantasy stories for a long time. But not like this. This did feel like a pander move. It was cheap, and it's cheapened the story. No, not that Arya killed the NK in and of itself, but how it was set up and how the 3 main magically endowed characters were made to be second stringers in a story that was supposed to be about them. Had Bran, Jon, Dany and Arya all been simultaneously working together to take the NK down, that would have been a far better result. It wouldn't have made the NK look like such a waste as well.

 

Edited by Blackfyres R Legit

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2 hours ago, darksellsword said:

You know in all seriousness I would've been ok with Arya having all the badass scenes she needs in relation to Cersei even if she removes the mountain aka Robert Strong and denies us Cleganebowl because they changed the mountain so many times on the show there really isn't anything organic there between the two brothers but to have them completely remove Jon's purpose in the story is unforgivable. It was pure fanservice to the female audience.

This doesn't have anythign to do with the "female audience" since Arya also removed Daenerys' purpose in the storyline. We now have those two dragon riding people who never got to do what they were built up to be.

Just because D&D thought they were SMRT by "subverting" everyone's expectations and handing over Jon and Dany's purpose in the plot to a character who hasn't had a decent story line or any well executed character development since season 4.
This is what people gonna get when they clammour for Song of Ice and Fire to "subvert ALL the tropes!!!" no matter whether it makes sense or not.

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19 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I actually read somewhere that someone was considering redoing the show as an animated series. I pray that happens for all our sake

Forget animation, I'd settle for a well produced audio drama with good sound effects and music.

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16 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

Yeah, but why would he do that?  He already counseled  her several times NOT to burn King's Landing.  Fuck, if she had burned KL from the start then all our fav characters including Viserion would still be alive, the Dothraki would be alive.  Dany would have had control of all the armies of Westeros.

Actually, the only thing that Daenerys wanted to burn was the Red Keep. She never wanted to burn King's Landing. It was always about the Red Keep.

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We got a pay off for Mel, even thought I thought her death was stupid.  She comes back, her magic and her sight helps the good guys, she lights a lot of fires and pep talks Arya with Syrio's words, then dies.  Okay, that's decently true to her character and the traits she has shown.

What is the possible purpose of Dany and dragons and Jon Targaryen now that the undead are defeated?  

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2 hours ago, btfu806 said:

To be fair, you also need Mel, not just Arya. Someone has to give the coach's 4th quarter pep talk.

Mel Popovich :lol:

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15 minutes ago, Bear42 said:

This series is closer to a Transformer movie than the Song of Ice and Fire.  Speaking of which the dragon fight was just like a scene in Transformers.  Who is fighting, what am I looking at, who just got bit, who just got clawed?  No idea, just a whirlwind of cgi and quick cuts from one angle to another until I feel like I'm watching the inside of a washing machine full of clothes that are all just different shades of black.  The rest of my gripes...

You just made my day, that’s the best description I’ve seen of this stupid battle. 

I also agree w/ the rest of your post, and I loooove the Prince that was Pointless! :lol:

3 minutes ago, Blackfyres R Legit said:

I feel they even cheapened Theon's death too because as it's turned out, if he waited for a few seconds longer, he'd have been fine.

Very much agree. And it’s another way that they’ve been completely ruining Bran, the all-knowing all-seeing. That is, except when it’s inconvenient for the dumb plot. Like when he knew about R+L=J, but not that they were married and said Jon was a Sand. Now he lets Theon so so stupidly rush to his certain death in the stupidest way possible just because... “creatively it made sense” yadda yadda. It’s god-awful, it’s moronic, it makes no sense. In other words, it’s GoT. :ack:

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4 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

This doesn't have anythign to do with the "female audience" since Arya also removed Daenerys' purpose in the storyline. We now have those two dragon riding people who never got to do what they were built up to be.

Just because D&D thought they were SMRT by "subverting" everyone's expectations and handing over Jon and Dany's purpose in the plot to a character who hasn't had a decent story line or any well executed character development since season 4.
This is what people gonna get when they clammour for Song of Ice and Fire to "subvert ALL the tropes!!!" no matter whether it makes sense or not.

I think it's a little inaccurate to say Dany's storyline was subverted as much as Jons. You have to keep in mind Jon really hasn't changed the bigger picture since hardhome

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Posted (edited)
5 minutes ago, darksellsword said:

I think it's a little inaccurate to say Dany's storyline was subverted as much as Jons. You have to keep in mind Jon really hasn't changed the bigger picture since hardhome

What has Dany done since taking Meereen? She flew around on some Dragons, nothing more. She brought Dragons into the world from fossils, coincidentally at the same time the WWs showed up, she had Red Priestesses all over Essos naming her as the savior.
And she did horsepoop when it came to saving the world, because "everybody would have expected it" and D&D thought they were clever by using Arya.
And the dragons were completely pointless. That's the biggest sin imho, relaly.

Edited by Orphalesion

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Just now, Cas Stark said:

We got a pay off for Mel, even thought I thought her death was stupid.  She comes back, her magic and her sight helps the good guys, she lights a lot of fires and pep talks Arya with Syrio's words, then dies.  Okay, that's decently true to her character and the traits she has shown.

No offense but your definition of payoff is weird.

1 minute ago, Cas Stark said:

What is the possible purpose of Dany and dragons and Jon Targaryen now that the undead are defeated?  

Well, I never supposed that the undead would be soundly defeated in the third episode of a six episode season.

But this why Book Euron is necessary to the plot. GRRM clearly wants to pay homage to the Scouring of the Shire. Once the Others are defeated or redirected in the books, neither Cersei nor Aegon nor the Mountain nor Qyburn or whomever tf are going to have the power to stand up against Daenerys and the other survivors.

Euron, however, as a crafty political mind, a warrior and a burgeoning sorcerer does have the power to do so. Especially if our resident mages -- Bran, Melisandre and Moqorro -- are otherwise vanquished or dispossessed in the fight against the Others.

Are you starting to see the importance of Book Euron now? Sure, there will be some debate as to who will sit the Iron Throne and some action over attacking King's Landing and killing Cersei and her goons...but without a truly menacing big bad, the heroes don't have too much to do. After doing what they did, everything else pales in comparison.

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1 minute ago, Jabar of House Titan said:

No offense but your definition of payoff is weird.

Well, I never supposed that the undead would be soundly defeated in the third episode of a six episode season.

But this why Book Euron is necessary to the plot. GRRM clearly wants to pay homage to the Scouring of the Shire. Once the Others are defeated or redirected in the books, neither Cersei nor Aegon nor the Mountain nor Qyburn or whomever tf are going to have the power to stand up against Daenerys and the other survivors.

Euron, however, as a crafty political mind, a warrior and a burgeoning sorcerer does have the power to do so. Especially if our resident mages -- Bran, Melisandre and Moqorro -- are otherwise vanquished or dispossessed in the fight against the Others.

Are you starting to see the importance of Book Euron now? Sure, there will be some debate as to who will sit the Iron Throne and some action over attacking King's Landing and killing Cersei and her goons...but without a truly menacing big bad, the heroes don't have too much to do. After doing what they did, everything else pales in comparison.

No.  Book Euron will always suck, he is a cartoonishly evil dumb superficial character.  So, the battle we've been waiting for is over in a single episode, but the post script scouring of the shire will last 3 episodes and kill off more main characters than the main battle did?  Yeah, whatever.  The NK death being so poorly done really ruins the entire final season, and I don't see how they redeem things, especially since Cersei should already be dead,  not a formidable enemy that it takes 1/2 a season to defeat.

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Posted (edited)
7 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

What has Dany done since taking Meereen? She flew around on some Dragons, nothing more. She brought Dragons into the world from fossils, coincidentally at the same time the WWs showed up, she had Red Priestesses all over Essos naming her as the savior.
And she did horsepoop when it came to saving the world, because "everybody would have expected it" and D&D thought they were clever by using Arya.

valid points but at least Daenerys brought the dragons and a huge army to fight the Nightking, if what you are suggesting is true that Dany bringing dragons back to the world revitalized the NightKing to the point he could attack again that would just give her added relevance to the story. Jon is the king of westeros because his father was heir to the throne before him so what. It is a huge anticlimax to a major viewpoint characters arc.

Edited by darksellsword

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4 minutes ago, Orphalesion said:

What has Dany done since taking Meereen? She flew around on some Dragons, nothing more. She brought Dragons into the world from fossils, coincidentally at the same time the WWs showed up, she had Red Priestesses all over Essos naming her as the savior.
And she did horsepoop when it came to saving the world, because "everybody would have expected it" and D&D thought they were clever by using Arya.

Both of them should have been involved in killing the NK. Their entire porpuse was to deal with the NK and viserion and they spent half the time lost in fog… 

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1 minute ago, darksellsword said:

valid points but at least Daenerys brought the dragons and a huge army to fight the Nightking, if what you are suggesting is true that Dany bringing dragons back to the world revitalized the NightKing to the point he could attack again that would just give her added relevance to the story. Jon is the king of westeros because his father was heir to the throne before him so what. It is a huge anticlimax to a major viewpoint characters arc.

Well, the WW came south before the Dragons were born in both show and book, so in my opinion the dragons were created to counter balance the Night's King. And if they were going for a arc about Dany being the cause, then they would have had to acknowledge that and work that into the story.

Both Jon and Dnaenerys were shafted and it was a huge anticlimax to both their stories and the whole War for the Dawn story line.

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6 minutes ago, Cas Stark said:

No.  Book Euron will always suck, he is a cartoonishly evil dumb superficial character.  So, the battle we've been waiting for is over in a single episode, but the post script scouring of the shire will last 3 episodes and kill off more main characters than the main battle did?  Yeah, whatever.  The NK death being so poorly done really ruins the entire final season, and I don't see how they redeem things, especially since Cersei should already be dead,  not a formidable enemy that it takes 1/2 a season to defeat.

The thing is that book euron is related to magic. As far as we know he might try to do some apocaliptic ritual that they have to stop at all costs… 

There are places the story can easily go to make euron a belivable threat.

Cersei being a dragon slayer is ridiculous and we having a battle with dragons on one side is also ridiculous. 

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4 minutes ago, divica said:

Both of them should have been involved in killing the NK. Their entire porpuse was to deal with the NK and viserion and they spent half the time lost in fog… 

Exactly! It was Jon and Daenerys purpose, it had been telegraphed since season and book 1 to be so, everything in their sotrylines and character arcs worked towards it.
And they were denied it, just so the show runners could think of themselves as "subverting expectations"

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Posted (edited)
6 hours ago, A Dance with Davos said:

He'd be up for killing the kid. Its not like Bran is Bran anymore as well. I am hoping there is still some kind of late game reveal, cause it just makes no sense.

At the very least they could have chopped off his bloomin' arm! :rolleyes:

6 hours ago, Lady Fevre Dream said:

Actually, that's kind of how I feel.  I'm having a hard time because, honestly, I'm shocked it was so terrible.  This was hyped as the battle of all battles (one of the few things they are supposed to be good at), and it was just a horrifying mess that was entirely too hard to see.  I'm still kinda stuck cringing, other than a few thoughts.  I don't even want to rewatch, not really, it was just a bit too long of a dark mess.  It was the worst battle visuals they've ever done, I think. 

Yep. It's really hard for me to formulate my feelings... The fact you can't see what's going on because it's so dark is just the cherry on the cake already iced with cyanide.

They build up the Night King as this terrifying enemy (They did, not GRRM) and then they just off him in one episode? Especially when they only decided 3-years-ago that Arya would be the Kingslayer. That takes it back to S6ish or around the writing period of S7. So, they really did just drop loads of build up and think, "Hell, let's do something different!" Honestly, it didn't matter who killed the NK - if someone even did kill him - in the end, it's just the fact it was all wrapped up in one episode. It felt insultingly rushed, and stupid.

Oh yeah... and the dragons achieved next to nothing. They spent most of the battle flying around aimlessly and bumping into each other.

Edited by Faera

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Just now, divica said:

The thing is that book euron is related to magic. As far as we know he might try to do some apocaliptic ritual that they have to stop at all costs… 

There are places the story can easily go to make euron a belivable threat.

Cersei being a dragon slayer is ridiculous and we having a battle with dragons on one side is also ridiculous. 

For me, they ruined the story in this episode.  There is now no purpose to Jon's ancestry in the story, the prophecy, Prince that was promised all that is moot.  Jon Snow hasn't won a battle in years or had a good idea in years, so if he sits the IT, why?  If he dies fighting Cersei, even worse, he's a total loser, might as well have been killed in his crib.  Dany?  All her magic again pointless.  If she wins, its dragons and she did nothing but get her allies killed fighting the NK, if she loses, again, her whole story pointless to lose to a dumb thug like Cersei Lannister.  So, I can't see how the show comes back from this error in how they handled the NK defeat.

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