Death scene: Theon

[Kajjo]

Let us focus on discussing the important death scenes in separate threads to honor our lost characters and talk about how you liked the scene, its circumstances, prior foreshadowing and possible consequences. One thread for our each of our beloved characters.

This one is about Theon Greyjoy. Only him.

FIGHTING

I like that Theon was a man here, the last man standing, so many dead around him, all his companions dead, he successfully protecting Bran. Nice scenes, short enough, not artificially extended beyond credibility.

THANK YOU

Bran saying thank you and some nice words to Theon is great, but again Bran is so emotionless, so cold, so distant. The Bloodraven was more emotional, so it is not only about three-eyed raven stuff. Bran ist particularly weird. 

That all the Starks telling Theon is is "home at Winterfell" (Bran) or Sansa hugs him so mcuh or even Jon in S7 told he "you are a Stark" is difficult for me to digest. Theon is a Greyjoy. He was raised by Ned Stark and obviously turned against them. This arc of redemption is not really believable, but maybe it occurs. But the forgiving by all the others is even stranger. Theon is not a likeable person in the show.

ARC

Theon's arc from foster boy, traitor, being mutilated, escaping with Sansa, his cowardness on board with Yara, his redemption, being forgiven by Jon, Sansa and Bran. Strange arc, but in summary as part of the show quite satisfying nonetheless.

THE DEATH SCENE

The death scene itself I didn't like so much. Running such a long distance just to be surely killed, that is nonsense. He could have waited for the Nighking to come closer or try to fight with him. But this spear-running nonsense is sub-standard. Pseudo-heroism without any value. 

What do you think about Theon's arc and his last scenes?

[chatty83]

I don't mind Jon and co forgiving him. Bran is an utter weirdo now and isn't really Bran so I guess his is easier to pass, it seems his only purpose these days is to forgive people. That said Sansa has a bond with Theon due to Ramsey so I get that and I think Jon knows theres more important things happening and deep down knows Theon screwed up badly but it was more to do with him searching for family than maliciously against the Starks. His dad basically set him up and played Theon.

Theons main problem is that he was abandoned by the Iron Born and hung out to dry. He was brought up by Ned but was outcast somewhat due to not really being one, somewhat like Jon but possibly more so. His dad was scummy to him as well so he did some silly stuff and paid the price. Pretty rough life had by Theon, essentially kidnapped as a child, not truly accepted by either family, kidnapped as an adult, mutilated and tortured, plagued by cowardness, outcast by his uncle who wants to kill him and then killed by a White Walker. He got some redemption but he probably paid more over the a tory arc.

 

if hed waited Arya could have saved him, nevermind, one last bad choice before death.

[Raksha 2014]

2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Let us focus on discussing the important death scenes in separate threads to honor our lost characters and talk about how you liked the scene, its circumstances, prior foreshadowing and possible consequences. One thread for our each of our beloved characters.

This one is about Theon Greyjoy. Only him.

FIGHTING

I like that Theon was a man here, the last man standing, so many dead around him, all his companions dead, he successfully protecting Bran. Nice scenes, short enough, not artificially extended beyond credibility.

THANK YOU

Bran saying thank you and some nice words to Theon is great, but again Bran is so emotionless, so cold, so distant. The Bloodraven was more emotional, so it is not only about three-eyed raven stuff. Bran ist particularly weird. 

That all the Starks telling Theon is is "home at Winterfell" (Bran) or Sansa hugs him so mcuh or even Jon in S7 told he "you are a Stark" is difficult for me to digest. Theon is a Greyjoy. He was raised by Ned Stark and obviously turned against them. This arc of redemption is not really believable, but maybe it occurs. But the forgiving by all the others is even stranger. Theon is not a likeable person in the show.

ARC

Theon's arc from foster boy, traitor, being mutilated, escaping with Sansa, his cowardness on board with Yara, his redemption, being forgiven by Jon, Sansa and Bran. Strange arc, but in summary as part of the show quite satisfying nonetheless.

THE DEATH SCENE

The death scene itself I didn't like so much. Running such a long distance just to be surely killed, that is nonsense. He could have waited for the Nighking to come closer or try to fight with him. But this spear-running nonsense is sub-standard. Pseudo-heroism without any value. 

What do you think about Theon's arc and his last scenes?

 

I thought that Bran managed a bit of emotion when he was thanking Theon, his eyes and mouth seemed to soften slightly; a glimpse of the human Bran used to be.  

 

I can understand that Jon told Theon "you are a Stark" and that the Starks were telling Theon that he was "home at Winterfell":  Theon was raised from the age of nine (in the books) to his early twenties (show) by Ned and Catelyn Stark.  They didn't raise him as Ironborn; because they disapproved of the Ironborn culture and ethics (with some good reason).  Theon was essentially raised as a Stark, as a brother to Robb and Sansa and the younger Starks, less so to Jon.  Theon obviously wanted to be a Stark, wished he was a Stark, but knew he was a hostage who could be killed at any time by the Stark foster-father he admired. He wanted to be completely part of a family; that's why Balon Greyjoy was able to turn Theon's allegiance to Robb/the Starks; because the Greyjoys and Ironborn were his childhood family memory and he could try to fit in there and earn their approval without being a hostage.  I think Theon took over Winterfell and set himself up as "the Prince of Winterfell" to earn the approval of his father and the Ironborn; because he could tell that he wasn't being completely welcomed and accepted as his sister was, they were suspicious of his having been a Stark ward for so long. 

So, after Theon's horrific execution of the armsmaster and the murder of two little boys, and captivity and torture by Ramsay, and Balon's death, Theon had nowhere to go, emotionally, to get the acceptance and redemption he craved.  It was only by saving Sansa, his Stark foster-sister, and, later, Yara (his sister by blood and memory), that Theon set himself on the road to redemption.  But after he saved Yara and sent her to (dubious) safety (aren't the Iron Islands controlled by Euron), what was Theon to do?  He had to know that the Iron Islands would never accept him as a king/lord, due to his mutilation, and he had already pledged to support his sister in that role.  I believe that Theon did not foresee or desire a long life as a eunuch; and decided to spend his last days fighting for the Starks and dying as a man who was as much a Stark as he was an Ironborn, if not more so.

And Sansa "hugs him so much" because she forged a bond with Theon when they were Ramsay's playthings and that bond tightened when Theon saved her life and jeopardized his own by killing Myranda and taking her away.  Sansa didn't know whether Theon had survived after Brienne found them or not.  She trusts him; she feels safe with him; in fact, Theon's one of a select few that she trusts.  So it makes sense to me that Sansa hugged Theon last episode and spent time with him on the night before the battle.

[Ice Queen]

Even though I knew it was coming, this one was a punch in the gut. Theon has been on a redemptive arc since Clash of Kings. What's really agonizing is that if he'd waited 5 seconds, he'd still be alive.

[Kajjo]

25 minutes ago, chatty83 said:

if hed waited Arya could have saved him, nevermind, one last bad choice before death.

I like that sentence, it somehow closes the circle even better. Theon's main character trait is making wrong choice, up to the end. 

Thanks for this idea.

[darmody]

2 hours ago, Kajjo said:

 

The death scene itself I didn't like so much. Running such a long distance just to be surely killed, that is nonsense. He could have waited for the Nighking to come closer or try to fight with him. But this spear-running nonsense is sub-standard. Pseudo-heroism without any value. 

 

He could have waited, but he didn't have anything that could hurt the Night King. His only options were to stand there and eat up thirty seconds or run away like he has before. He wanted to die screaming and charging. 

I only wish he would have done that chest-thumping thing. 

[The Sunland Lord]

His kill count is impressive.

His wish to be a hero killed him. The stain of the Turncloak was that much a heavy burden for him to wear, he did what he thought would remove that stain.

I think he accomplished it, and maybe the few seconds he stole of the NK's time bought just enough time for Bran and Arya.

[Nerevanin]

- Theon dying while defending a Stark was a great arc end after he (in)directly caused the deaths of Robb, Catelyn and Rickon. And I predicted it a long time ago so I'mm happy I was right.

- I liked the way Bran told him that he is home there.

- Theon (aka the only named character) being the last man standing  was way too predictable.

- His death was very predictable

- It seemed to me that his death wasn't that well executed, it kinda lacked emotions for me. 

[Red Dragon10]

I don't mind Theon being forgiven.  He did awful, awful things and definitely was an unlikeable (though sometimes understandable) person for years.  But I feel like he has been on a redemption path for awhile now.  He has a lot of flaws.  But he understood awhile ago, that he had totally betrayed his true family (the Stark's).  

I agree that I find it kind of weird that Bran is so emotionless and that the old 3ER showed more emotion.  Maybe just a bad choice through direction or through how the actor interprets the character? 

I didn't find that Theon's death hit as hard as it could have, because of his little charge at the end.  I knew it was going to be pointless.  I know I'm nitpicking, but I would have preferred if he had just waited and stood between the NK and Bran to the end instead of a useless charge.

[Nerevanin]

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

The death scene itself I didn't like so much. Running such a long distance just to be surely killed, that is nonsense. He could have waited for the Nighking to come closer or try to fight with him. But this spear-running nonsense is sub-standard. Pseudo-heroism without any value. 

Yeah. I think that it would be better (not for Theon but fort he story) if he let the NK to come close and THEN he'd try to kill him. Obviously he would fail and the NK would kill him but while the NK would be distracted by this, Arya could jump out to kill him. That would be more interesting and impacting than this "I don't have a slightest chance but I'll run there with a battle cry either way!"

[Greenmonsterff]

Theon’s death scene was much too easy to predict. I mean, as soon as he volunteered to protect Bran in the last episode pretty much everyone knew how that was going to go. 

[Kajjo]

8 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Yeah. I think that it would be better (not for Theon but fort he story) if he let the NK to come close and THEN he'd try to kill him. Obviously he would fail and the NK would kill him but while the NK would be distracted by this, Arya could jump out to kill him. That would be more interesting and impacting than this "I don't have a slightest chance but I'll run there with a battle cry either way!"

Couldn't agree more. That would have been great. Theon somehow sacrificing himself, Arya killing the NK.

[John Suburbs]

3 hours ago, Kajjo said:

Let us focus on discussing the important death scenes in separate threads to honor our lost characters and talk about how you liked the scene, its circumstances, prior foreshadowing and possible consequences. One thread for our each of our beloved characters.

This one is about Theon Greyjoy. Only him.

FIGHTING

I like that Theon was a man here, the last man standing, so many dead around him, all his companions dead, he successfully protecting Bran. Nice scenes, short enough, not artificially extended beyond credibility.

THANK YOU

Bran saying thank you and some nice words to Theon is great, but again Bran is so emotionless, so cold, so distant. The Bloodraven was more emotional, so it is not only about three-eyed raven stuff. Bran ist particularly weird. 

That all the Starks telling Theon is is "home at Winterfell" (Bran) or Sansa hugs him so mcuh or even Jon in S7 told he "you are a Stark" is difficult for me to digest. Theon is a Greyjoy. He was raised by Ned Stark and obviously turned against them. This arc of redemption is not really believable, but maybe it occurs. But the forgiving by all the others is even stranger. Theon is not a likeable person in the show.

ARC

Theon's arc from foster boy, traitor, being mutilated, escaping with Sansa, his cowardness on board with Yara, his redemption, being forgiven by Jon, Sansa and Bran. Strange arc, but in summary as part of the show quite satisfying nonetheless.

THE DEATH SCENE

The death scene itself I didn't like so much. Running such a long distance just to be surely killed, that is nonsense. He could have waited for the Nighking to come closer or try to fight with him. But this spear-running nonsense is sub-standard. Pseudo-heroism without any value. 

What do you think about Theon's arc and his last scenes?

As soon as he started running, my mind thought "LEEEROYYY JENNNNKIIIINNS!"

[missingm]

16 minutes ago, Nerevanin said:

Yeah. I think that it would be better (not for Theon but fort he story) if he let the NK to come close and THEN he'd try to kill him. Obviously he would fail and the NK would kill him but while the NK would be distracted by this, Arya could jump out to kill him. That would be more interesting and impacting than this "I don't have a slightest chance but I'll run there with a battle cry either way!"

Maybe we can pretend that Theon saw Arya when looking back at Bran but she wasn't in position so he charged the Night King to give her time. 

Either way he died a noble death and did not run away. He finally overcame the one character flaw that had plagued him, fear. 

[Nerevanin]

6 minutes ago, missingm said:

Maybe we can pretend that Theon saw Arya when looking back at Bran but she wasn't in position so he charged the Night King to give her time. 

Either way he died a noble death and did not run away. He finally overcame the one character flaw that had plagued him, fear. 

You're right, now as I think about it, I remember Theon discreetly winking at Arya who was hiding behind the tree.

Seriously though, it doesn't makes sense. If Theon knew that Arya wasn't in a position to attack the NK, he should have lure him forward and no running to him. The NK could have easily kill Theon the way he actually did and then throw his ice spear at Bran and kill him from distance and thus Arya would never be in a position to kill the NK.

[StoneColdJorahMormont]

I like to think Arya was present for a good minute or two before Theon Charged.... So for me he would still be alive if she had also charged at the same time he had and both took him down... but Theon was meant to die to close his story.

 

He kicked ass as well considering in every other fight scene he either got his ass kicked or was well protected... he took out a good number of them and some close combat.

Yara will be proud.

 

[nyser1]

1 hour ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

I like to think Arya was present for a good minute or two before Theon Charged.... So for me he would still be alive if she had also charged at the same time he had and both took him down... but Theon was meant to die to close his story.

 

He kicked ass as well considering in every other fight scene he either got his ass kicked or was well protected... he took out a good number of them and some close combat.

Yara will be proud.

 

Agreed. Theon redeemed himself as best as he could for what he did.

[Bran the Shipper]

I didn't like his death.  But then I don't consider his arc to be about finding forgiveness and redemption so much as being able to forgive yourself and I never got the impression that Theon got to that point.  He came to Winterfell to die, he chose to protect Bran knowing that he would likely die doing so. 

So his death was ultimately cowardly, he was running away from the mistakes that he had made.  Mistakes that he could only really atone for by living.

It didn't help that the Night King in a single motion broke his spear and impaled him with it.  If the Night King was so tough he would have broken Arya's neck as soon as he grabbed her.   But I guess she has enough plot armor that he couldn't.

[SansaJonRule]

7 hours ago, StoneColdJorahMormont said:

He kicked ass as well considering in every other fight scene he either got his ass kicked or was well protected... he took out a good number of them and some close combat.

Yara will be proud.

I believe in the very beginning he was an excellent shot with a bow, so it was awesome to see him using that skill to protect Bran. Yes, I agree Yara will be proud.

5 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

But then I don't consider his arc to be about finding forgiveness and redemption so much as being able to forgive yourself and I never got the impression that Theon got to that point. 

I loved the way Theon died, protecting Bran. I think he charged the NK as a way of saying, I've done all I can. It's over for me. Bran had just told him he was and good man and thanked him, and a tear rolled down Theon's cheek. Maybe he couldn't forgive himself, but clearly what Bran said to him touched him deeply.

I think Theon finally got what he had been looking for from the beginning, love, acceptance and validation.

[Kajjo]

11 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

So his death was ultimately cowardly, he was running away from the mistakes that he had made.  Mistakes that he could only really atone for by living.

I like this interpretation. Theon really seeks out the death in the final move. In the best case, this is one more bad choice he makes (an interpretation I favor quite a lot), but maybe you are right and he again chickens out from atonement and prefers simple death in a pseudo-heroic style.

11 hours ago, Bran the Shipper said:

If the Night King was so tough he would have broken Arya's neck as soon as he grabbed her. 

No, no plot-armor necessary here. The Nightking does not kill Bran right away, too. Very many killers hesitate to savor the moment, to make it special.

The Nightking caught Arya, was sure he had her for good, wanted eye contact, wanted suffering and her knowing it will be the end. He is an arrogant bastard, overly self-confident and, as so often, it costs him his "life".