Police - a thin blue line, a wad of cash and scary guns

[dbergkvist]

30 minutes ago, BigFatCoward said:

Yeah, thats the easy one. Standing by and doing nothing while It happens are the more difficult ones to prosecute.  

There were two other cops holding George Floyd down and the fourth cop was making sure the bystanders did not intervene. If these people had been civilians, they would all have been charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

And the members of the police departments who lied in the police report would have been charged as accessories after the fact.

[Week]

15 minutes ago, dbergkvist said:

There were two other cops holding Michael Floyd down and the fourth cop was making sure the bystanders did not intervene. If these people had been civilians, they would all have been charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

And the members of the police departments who lied in the police report would have been charged as accessories after the fact.

FYI, George Floyd 

[dbergkvist]

Just now, Week said:

FYI, George Floyd 

Thanks. Fixed.

[BigFatCoward]

33 minutes ago, dbergkvist said:

There were two other cops holding George Floyd down and the fourth cop was making sure the bystanders did not intervene. If these people had been civilians, they would all have been charged with conspiracy to commit murder.

And the members of the police departments who lied in the police report would have been charged as accessories after the fact.

I know they knew, but from what I've seen, proving they could see exactly what was happening will be difficult.  

I dont know enough about US law but in the uk the below would be very important and I dont see how it could be proven beyond reasonable doubt.  Their defence will be, 'i wasnt aware of what was happening because I was too involved in keeping he crowd back/lawfully detaining the suspect'. 

Lying on paperwork is a different issue entirely. 

Mens rea is the intent a person has behind committing a crime. Typically, there has to be intent behind the crime, but this isn't required in every situation. ... Actus reus is the action the person takes to perform the criminal act. This is the physical action behind the crime.

 

 

[sologdin]

often members of a conspiracy aren't required to have mens rea for each act by other members of the conspiracy, but only an agreement to commit a crime. once that occurs, it may well be that each member of the conspiracy is chargeable with all acts undertaken by all other members in furtherance of the agreement.

[BigFatCoward]

6 minutes ago, sologdin said:

often members of a conspiracy aren't required to have mens rea for each act by other members of the conspiracy, but only an agreement to commit a crime. once that occurs, it may well be that each member of the conspiracy is chargeable with all acts undertaken by all other members in furtherance of the agreement.

Again I dont know american law but what would the initial crime be?  I've only seen the limited coverage partly because it was fucking upsetting. And I've seen some horrible shit in my time. 

[Guest]

8 minutes ago, sologdin said:

often members of a conspiracy aren't required to have mens rea for each act by other members of the conspiracy, but only an agreement to commit a crime. once that occurs, it may well be that each member of the conspiracy is chargeable with all acts undertaken by all other members in furtherance of the agreement.

Not to mention that it'll likely be difficult to explain away why they didn't hear Floyd saying he couldn't breathe, or the 20 or so bystanders, and the nurse or paramedic, who were also all saying they were going to kill him.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Gertrude said:

I’ve seen reports that the officers claimed the CNN crew was asked to move and they refused. What kind of fucking idiot thinks a blatant lie in front of a camera where Jimenez is OBVIOUSLY taping (talking to the camera) is a good idea? Jimenez was clearly trying to comply with them and received no answer when he asked where they should go.

The cop was flexing on camera as he killed a man, knowing he was on camera. 

[OldGimletEye]

24 minutes ago, sologdin said:

often members of a conspiracy aren't required to have mens rea for each act by other members of the conspiracy, but only an agreement to commit a crime. once that occurs, it may well be that each member of the conspiracy is chargeable with all acts undertaken by all other members in furtherance of the agreement.

I pretty sure the Mens Rea for conspiracy is one of specific intent to commit the underlying crime. Negligence or recklessness is not enough. I think that will be hard to prove.

The state will have to proceed on another theory. Normally, from what I understand, the general rule is that you don't have to come to the aid of another unless there in affirmative duty imposed by law or by a special relationship. I'm pretty sure Minnesota has a "good Samaritan" law and I'm wondering if that could be used to show the affirmative duty to act.

To the extent, the law doesn't provide such an affirmative duty, in this kind of case, it seems to me that a law should be passed to cover these kinds of cases. Police officers should be required to restrain other police officers when they clearly act out of line.

[Guy Kilmore]

1 hour ago, Fragile Bird said:

It appears they have arrested Chauvin, the police officer kneeling on Floyd's neck.

And charged him with Manslaughter and Murder in the 3rd degree with potentially more charges to be forthcoming. 

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

1 hour ago, BigFatCoward said:

Yeah, thats the easy one. Standing by and doing nothing while It happens are the more difficult ones to prosecute.  

What do you do with the cop that charged someone and yelled "don't touch me."? 

All four are murderers in my book. They are agents of the state. They are so to protect and serve. And they all aided in killing a man for exactly no reason. 

They're all murderers. And none showed any interest in the life of the citizen they were paid to protect.

[Fragile Bird]

6 minutes ago, OldGimletEye said:

I pretty sure the Mens Rea for conspiracy is one of specific intent to commit the underlying crime. Negligence or recklessness is not enough. I think that will be hard to prove.

The state will have to proceed on another theory. Normally, from what I understand, the general rule is that you don't have to come to the aid of another unless there in affirmative duty imposed by law or by a special relationship. I'm pretty sure Minnesota has a "good Samaritan" law and I'm wondering if that could be used to show the affirmative duty to act.

To the extent, the law doesn't provide such an affirmative duty, in this kind of case, it seems to me that a law should be passed to cover these kinds of cases. Police officers should be required to restrain other police officers when they clearly act out of line.

From what I have heard on CNN, Minnesota passed a law creating a positive obligation on police officers to intervene when they see another police officer doing something wrong. The exact wording of that law would be significant.

[OldGimletEye]

1 minute ago, Fragile Bird said:

From what I have heard on CNN, Minnesota passed a law creating a positive obligation on police officers to intervene when they see another police officer doing something wrong. The exact wording of that law would be significant.

Thanks. I didn't know that. But, it is good to hear that Minnesota does have such a law, as that will make it possible to charge the other officers for criminal conduct, depending of course on what the language of that statue says.

[KingintheNorth4]

23 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

And charged him with Manslaughter and Murder in the 3rd degree with potentially more charges to be forthcoming. 

3rd degree murder is fucking bullshit. It should be 2nd degree at least. And the other three still need to be arrested and prosecuted.

[Fury Resurrected]

Our bus drivers refused to help the cops transport arrested protestors. I love that solidarity

[BigFatCoward]

51 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Not to mention that it'll likely be difficult to explain away why they didn't hear Floyd saying he couldn't breathe, or the 20 or so bystanders, and the nurse or paramedic, who were also all saying they were going to kill him.

That is not difficult to explain away unfortunately. A crowd screaming at you, difficult circumstances, lots of different voices etc. I'm not saying I agree, but I think it's pretty easy to justify with a decent lawyer. 

[Guest]

59 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

The cop was flexing on camera as he killed a man, knowing he was on camera. 

Motherfucker had his fucking hands in his fucking pockets!

[Guest]

I don't see how this doesn't fire back up even worse tonight. What is the mood like there, Minneapolis residents?

[Guy Kilmore]

44 minutes ago, KingintheNorth4 said:

3rd degree murder is fucking bullshit. It should be 2nd degree at least. And the other three still need to be arrested and prosecuted.

They are still building cases.  I am a little more hopeful.  And, in our process, charges can change after arrest as more investigating is done.  Judging from what was said, they know they can prove 3rd degree murder at this stage of the investigation.  So while not happy, I also don't think it is bullshit.

[Guy Kilmore]

20 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

I don't see how this doesn't fire back up even worse tonight. What is the mood like there, Minneapolis residents?

Day time and night time moods are different.  People seem more positive now.  There feels like two different groups, protesters and the looters.  But I am just outside the epicenter, so well, there ya go.