ThinkerX Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 57 minutes ago, DMC said: Order whom? Like, seriously, who is POTUS going to order to arrest a MC? I'm not saying your question is without foundation. Just marveling at the fact your question leads to questions that are best left to "political junkie Trivial Pursuit on salvia." Given that Trump thinks of Barr as his personal attorney, he might go that route. Order Barr to 'send some guys over and lock him up.' (Barr might not go along with that) Whole point is Trump likely is that crazy, especially after the latest round of purges. And since you (and maybe Kalbear) are the hardcore political junkies, well, the answers would be in your bailiwick Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: Order whom? Like, seriously, who is POTUS going to order to arrest a MC? I'm not saying your question is without foundation. Just marveling at the fact your question leads to questions that are best left to "political junkie Trivial Pursuit on salvia." He's already given the order, actually. Leaked footage. Be warned, it's disturbing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, The Mance said: So one niggling thing about the whole Ukraine development is trump repeatedly describing his call with Zelensky as "perfect". Like I get that he has an odd way of mangling idiom, and otherwise tortures the english language in the the most cringeworthy ways. But, "perfect," in the context of a phone call? It just doesn't fit....unless.... All I can imagine is a team of legal linguists painstakingly coaching trump on how exactly to conduct his talk with Zelensky: "No mr president, you can't say it like that" "I'm sorry sir, that's illegal too" "Uhhh, no. Just.....no" Until finally he gets it! The wording that is just weaselly enough to buy what they all figured would be an acceptable amount of deniability for Barr and McConnell and Trump's base if not the entire GOP establishment to cover his ass if anybody ever found out. "Yes Mr President, that's perfect. Say it just like that" And he did! He said it perfect! Just like those annoying, pencil-necked, nerds told him to say it! Perfect! The phone call was "perfect"! If it was anyone but Trump, I'd say you might be on to something. But Trump can barely read a teleprompter, much less memorize a script given to him by his pinhead lawyers. That's just not Trump's MO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 59 minutes ago, Darth Richard II said: ICE? Just watched the South Park season premiere last night. This reminds me of that. 55 minutes ago, ThinkerX said: Given that Trump thinks of Barr as his personal attorney, he might go that route. Order Barr to 'send some guys over and lock him up.' (Barr might not go along with that) Whole point is Trump likely is that crazy, especially after the latest round of purges. And since you (and maybe Kalbear) are the hardcore political junkies, well, the answers would be in your bailiwick I'll thank you not to refer to my balliwick, sir. Even if Trump ordered Barr, the DoJ is a pretty damn big department - one of the first four! Does that mean FBI? Marshals? Regardless, they'd all just laugh at him, which is kinda my point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ThinkerX Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: Just watched the South Park season premiere last night. This reminds me of that. I'll thank you not to refer to my balliwick, sir. Even if Trump ordered Barr, the DoJ is a pretty damn big department - one of the first four! Does that mean FBI? Marshals? Regardless, they'd all just laugh at him, which is kinda my point. But imagine Trumps order going public - along with the heads of those agencies laughing at him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morpheus Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 It was a really dumb move by Schiff to open the hearing with a parody rendition of Trump’s call. With so much evidence against them all they have to lean on is Schiff “lied”. Save your SNL spec skits for the appropriate time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sologdin Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 Order whom? traditionally this work has been done by a parallel party organization, rather than by the state. has he armed & addled under a unified gauleiter command all survivalists, minutemen, rural militias, birchers, teabaggers, white separatists, klan, neo-NSDAP, NRA fundamentalists, surly NASCAR fans, and the rest of the lumpenized antisocial nihilists? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 41 minutes ago, sologdin said: traditionally this work has been done by a parallel party organization, rather than by the state. The term "traditionally" there is a great way to make me squirmish in the morning, thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted September 30, 2019 Author Share Posted September 30, 2019 2 hours ago, sologdin said: Order whom? traditionally this work has been done by a parallel party organization, rather than by the state. has he armed & addled under a unified gauleiter command all survivalists, minutemen, rural militias, birchers, teabaggers, white separatists, klan, neo-NSDAP, NRA fundamentalists, surly NASCAR fans, and the rest of the lumpenized antisocial nihilists? Yeah, but the days of the small mind and small state conservatives have all gone now, at least wrt to the small state. Somebody has to ask Paul Ryan what it will do to the deficit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 1 hour ago, DMC said: The term "traditionally" there is a great way to make me squirmish in the morning, thanks. Yes, that would indeed be a chilling headline. I absolutely fear for the safety of this whistleblower, and he/she can't stay anonymous forever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 11 hours ago, The Mance said: So one niggling thing about the whole Ukraine development is trump repeatedly describing his call with Zelensky as "perfect" Category Error -- Trump does not understand language as most of us do. For him it's solely zero sum dominance-submission, win-lose struggle. I.e. words are actions, not belief or conviction. Meaning, definition, etc. are conditions entirely lacking in his conformation. ttps://www.vox.com/2016/9/29/13086236/trump-beliefs-category-error 10 hours ago, James Arryn said: o, Trump just fairly directly (ie retweeted) threatened civil war in the event of an impeachment. They are who we thought they were. The above is the reason he cannot rationally recognize anything as a boundary not to cross, as he's done again, with the explicit threat of civil war if he's taken down. .As I've been posting here since the beginning too, he would certainly, at the least, attempt: https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2019/09/30/trump-civil-war-tweet-jeffress-draws-backlash-critics-gop/ As to whom it would fall -- why to the same sorts that stopped the Gore-Bush recount: https://www.washingtonpost.com/history/2018/11/15/its-insanity-how-brooks-brothers-riot-killed-recount-miami/ https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brooks_Brothers_riot Quote Hundreds of paid GOP operatives descended upon South Florida to protest the state's recounts,[1] with at least half a dozen of the demonstrators at Miami-Dade paid by George W. Bush's recount committee.[2] Several of these protesters were identified as Republican staffers and a number later went on to jobs in the Bush administration.[3] The "Brooks Brothers" name is a reference to the protesters' corporate attire; described in the Wall Street Journal as "50-year-old white lawyers with cell phones and Hermès ties", the protesters were corporate-sponsored and flown in, as opposed to being local citizens concerned about counting practices.[2][4] The demonstration was organized by Republican operatives, sometimes referred to as the "Brooks Brothers Brigade",[5] to oppose the recount of ballots during the Florida election recount. Realizing that they could not meet a court-ordered deadline, the canvassers decided to limit the recount to the 10,750 ballots rejected by computer, and moved the counting process to a smaller room closer to the ballot-scanning equipment to speed up the process, while restricting media access to 25 feet away while they continued. Republicans objected to this change of plans and insisted the canvassers must do a full recount. At this time, New York Rep. John Sweeney told an aide to "Shut it down."[2][4][6] The demonstration turned violent and according to The New York Times, "several people were trampled, punched or kicked when protesters tried to rush the doors outside the office of the Miami-Dade supervisor of elections. Sheriff's deputies restored order." DNC aide Luis Rosero was kicked and punched. Within two hours after the event, the canvassing board unanimously voted to shut down the count, in part due to perceptions that the process wasn't open or fair, and in part because the court-mandated deadline was impossible to meet.[7][8][9] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DireWolfSpirit Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 I think one of you asked rhetorically whether the Orange monstrosity would want to arrest Schiff on treason charges. In walks todays headlines...where apparently, he is in fact, asking aides whether he can arrest Schiff for treason. You can't make up anything that is too low for this bastard. From Discover on Google https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/us/politics/trump-schiff-treason.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
argonak Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 10 minutes ago, DireWolfSpirit said: I think one of you asked rhetorically whether the Orange monstrosity would want to arrest Schiff on treason charges. In walks todays headlines...where apparently, he is in fact, asking aides whether he can arrest Schiff for treason. You can't make up anything that is too low for this bastard. From Discover on Google https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/30/us/politics/trump-schiff-treason.html Its really horrifying how weak our democracy really is. The President is almost completly immune to the rule of law, and we were reliant on those in that position having some vague sense of responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 My favorite https://twitter.com/hashtag/secondcivilwarletters?lang=en so far: Quote Dearest Essie, We Redhats have been routed by the gays at the Battle of Chik-fil-a Hill. I can’t help but wonder if the outcome would’ve been different had we been part of a well regulated militia instead of a bunch of asshole gun nuts. MAGA, Jethro Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 The oath keepers are looking for a civil war. A president calling for one is an act of state terrorism. Most right wingers on board will shit themselves once people shoot back at them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bonnot OG Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 8 minutes ago, argonak said: Its really horrifying how weak our democracy really is. The President is almost completly immune to the rule of law, and we were reliant on those in that position having some vague sense of responsibility. It’s why hierarchical governments, well hierarchies in general, are garbage and should be abolished. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ser Scot A Ellison Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 13 hours ago, ThinkerX said: Gotta wonder if Trump is crazy enough to order Schiff arrested - and what the reaction of Team Trump and congress (both parties) would be should he do so. If he orders a member of Congress arrested, it’s over. I think the Senate would vote to remove. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fragile Bird Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 In the event that you get an argument from a Trumper that the regulations were changed just days before the whistleblower filed his claim, changing the requirement for first-hand knowledge, tell them that's a lie being pushed by the right-wing press. The statute does not require first-hand knowledge. The previous form asked whether the whistleblower has first-hand knowledge. That question should never have been on the form because the statute does not require first-hand knowledge, and it was recently removed from the form. No regulation or statute was changed. Use common sense - how could that be removed under a Trump administration? One assumes that the Republicans would fully support second-hand knowledge to be used when a complaint would be against a Democrat. https://www.mediamatters.org/federalist/false-report-federalist-about-whistleblower-complaints-fuels-trump-defenders-impeachment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zorral Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 As defined by the Constitution nothing Schiff has done comes remotely near treason. It's quite different with bedbug, particularly now that he's threatening civil war. Article III, Section 3 of the Constitution: "...Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort. No Person shall be convicted of Treason unless on the Testimony of two Witnesses to the same overt Act, or on Confession in open Court...." https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2019/9/30/20891096/impeachment-inquiry-ukraine-whistleblower-arrest-treason-adam-schiff-donald-trump Quote In the case of Schiff, the lack of any grounds for a treason charge is clear. Schiff has not levied war against the US: he has not attacked a military installation or set up a belligerent, anti-American state. And he hasn’t given any foe of the US aid or comfort: He has not sheltered any members of al Qaeda or written any articles for the Islamic State’s magazine. Bedbug is getting closer and closer to overt treason with his tweets that investigating him will make for civil war -- see the bolded. This is why the seccessionists were regarded legally as traitors by the Union (until they said they were sorry, pledged alleigence to the USA again, and Andrew Johnson declared all as right with the world again). Nor does treason wipe out all the many other sorts of civil and other crimes he has committed, from sexual assault to fraud to etc. In the meantime, though, as the treason trial of Thomas Jefferson against Aaron Burr showed (especially if the defendant has Justice John Marshal, enemy of TJ*, sitting as the court judge), it's really difficult to prove treason w/o two credible eye-witnesses, despite a mountain or two of circumstantial evidence -- especially when so many major figures are more than reluctant to say anything at all, such as figures like Andrew Jackson -- this being (1807) prior to the Battle of NO, after which Jackson could do no wrong evah! Then there was Wilkinson, who really was doing a career-long getting-paid-for treason in giving aid and comfort to the enemy, whether British, French or Spanish -- and as to be expected of such an ilk, back-stabbed Burr in this matter. ~~~~~~~~~~ * Quote One of the problems that Marshall had with Jefferson was that Jefferson had such prejudices against England that made him unfit to govern. Another was that Jefferson had not served in the Continental Army or suffered in the Revolutionary War as had Marshall and so many other great men of the time. Finally, Jefferson had written a letter that had come to public light that made reference to George Washington in a negative way to the extent that all understood Jefferson's low opinion of George Washington. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted September 30, 2019 Share Posted September 30, 2019 In yet another frustrating example of how Trump just sucks up all the oxygen in print, TV and online media, 50,000 GM workers are entering the 3rd week of a strike over the terms of their new contract. Iirc, this is the largest, longest strike by the UAW in 50 years. GM tried to play hardball with the union members by attempting to force the union to cover the company's portion of insurance premiums, but that backfired. The workers are asking to keep their current responsibility towards covering their premiums at 3% instead of the 15% proposed by GM in the proposed new contract. They are also asking for an established policy for transitioning temp workers to permanent workers, to stop GMs current abuse of the concessions toward temp workers that the UAW allowed during their strike in 2007 in the lead-up to the Global Financial Crisis. And you barely see anything about that unless you're actively searching it out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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