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[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

Just now, Springwatch said:

No, I'm fine with the debate. It's a societal thing - that's all I'm saying. No-one immune.

What we know about Sansa is she's been practising her courtesy since she was three. But she's not as good as she thinks she is - making a big deal about 'half brother' instead of 'bastard' just shows she's aware of his problem (unlike the younger Starks, who are still innocent).

Aware of his problem?

Robb is older & doesn't refer to him that way. 

[Springwatch]

2 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I don't recall Catelyn saying she can't stand 'brother'

You think she'd be fine with that?

2 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

It doesn't show she avoids bastard then either. I don't think Hugor is suggesting she never calls him Jon, only that she could call him Jon if she doesn't want to refer to him as brother. 

Totally agree. She should have stuck with Jon.

2 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Who says he dislikes her?! It's clear he doesn't have the same connection with her. He specifically says when talking of missing his siblings that he misses even Sansa, who calls him half brother. Doesn't that alone show that he likes her because he misses her but also that they are more distant than the others? 

I don't think we disagree here. Half brother touches a sore point for Jon. For the rest - they like different activities.

[Elegant Woes]

All this speculation on what the relationship of Jon and Sansa was like is pure conjecture at this point. We literally know nothing about their childhood interactions. George placed a giant blanket on their past. I suggest we wait until they finally interact in the books. 

[Springwatch]

2 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Aware of his problem?

His problem, yes - that is low status and discriminated against.

2 minutes ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Robb is older & doesn't refer to him that way. 

Robb is Jon's best friend and knows better how to please him. Inside, Robb does know the significance of being a bastard - it has important, real effects. Robb  inherits, Jon doesn't. It's no use pretending Jon is not a bastard.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

6 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

You think she'd be fine with that?

I think whether she is or not she must not say anything to the kids because the rest of them call him brother. 

7 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

don't think we disagree here. Half brother touches a sore point for Jon. For the rest - they like different activities

Fair enough. 

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 minute ago, Springwatch said:

His problem, yes - that is low status and discriminated against.

Robb is Jon's best friend and knows better how to please him. Inside, Robb does know the significance of being a bastard - it has important, real effects. Robb  inherits, Jon doesn't. It's no use pretending Jon is not a bastard.

I wasn't suggesting anyone pretend he isn't a bastard. Sansa is a smart girl. She knows full well that they way she refers to Jon is hurtful. It's not a matter of knowing how to please him but a matter of being nice & not hurting people's feelings. 

[Springwatch]

Just now, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I think whether she is or not she must not say anything to the kids because the rest of them call him brother.

The rest of them call him 'bastard brother'. Or think of him as 'bastard brother'. Both Arya and Bran. In all innocence. It's not an insult as it is nowadays - it's a statement of rank, like 'steward's daughter'.

 

1 minute ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

I wasn't suggesting anyone pretend he isn't a bastard. Sansa is a smart girl. She knows full well that they way she refers to Jon is hurtful. It's not a matter of knowing how to please him but a matter of being nice & not hurting people's feelings. 

She knows he is super sensitive to the word 'bastard'. And we know that too.

(Got to go now.)

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

1 minute ago, Springwatch said:

The rest of them call him 'bastard brother'. Or think of him as 'bastard brother'. Both Arya and Bran. In all innocence. It's not an insult as it is nowadays - it's a statement of rank, like 'steward's daughter

I don't remember any of them calling him 'bastard brother' if they do then it's really odd for Jon to reflect that Sansa calls him half brother. 

2 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

She knows he is super sensitive to the word 'bastard'. And we know that too

So it's all just to be nice then huh? That doesn't make any sense given the info we have. 

[Hugorfonics]

48 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

Catelyn can't stand  'brother'.

Is that true? Iirc Cat (or Ned) never tried to distance the kids from Jon (or Theon) which is totally a point for them in their favor

48 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

And what makes you think she doesn't call him 'Jon'? The quote doesn't show that at all. Only that she avoids 'bastard'.

.

He  missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but "my half brother" since  she was old enough to understand what bastard meant .

.

 

So you think she called him half brother out of politeness?

 

.

She had not thought of Jon in ages. He was only her half brother, but still . . . with Robb and Bran and Rickon dead, Jon Snow was the only brother that remained to her. I am a bastard too now, just like him. Oh, it would be so sweet, to see him once again.

.

10 minutes ago, Springwatch said:

The rest of them call him 'bastard brother'. Or think of him as 'bastard brother'. Both Arya and Bran. In all innocence. It's not an insult as it is nowadays - it's a statement of rank, like 'steward's daughter'.

Sansa thinks of Jon as her bastard brother too

.

She sang for mercy, for the living and the dead alike, for Bran and Rickon and Robb, for her sister Arya and her bastard brother Jon Snow, away off on the Wall.

 

[sweetsunray]

@Lyanna<3Rhaegar and @Nagini's Neville

I like the discourse you're having.

I agree with you both that much of their dislike of one another and their prejudices are fueled by those who are rearing them and environment.

Mind you, I don't like Arya so much because "it's cool these days", but because her experiences with her peers as a child are similar to mine. When I was 7, we had to draw "what do you want to be later in life," and while every other girl in our class drew gender affirming professions, I drew a police woman with a skirt. I was tomboyish (though not a rough player; I did fence from my 7-12 though) and since my dad prefers women with short hair, I didn't have long hair until I was 16... and so, everybody who didn't know me, assumed I was a boy at first meeting (which annoyed me: I was totally fine being me, a girl). A shitty elementary teacher caused a long term ousting by peers at that same age: first I was of the "stupid class", but I proved them wrong easily, but the resentment caused the princesses of my class to look for other ways to shit on me - it became "I wasn't feminine enough" and "not pretty enough". The worst of course was the girl who used to be 2nd best in her grades on tests, until I did. And when I did wear a skirt, I'd be laughed at. I had no social issues before that, not with girls, not with boys of any "peer status". Even after that shitty teacher was long gone though, those peer issues became chronic until I was 15, at high school, and befriended two girls of a higher year during lunchtimes. Because of those elementary years, it took me until I was 27 to discover I was actually socially gifted, talented in forming groups of people around me and lead them. Sure, I made friends easy for years already, but a part of me was incapable of recognizing before that I had been the one creating those groups of friends, introducing them to one another, etc. Because of the remarks about me not being pretty enough and who did I believe I was to even dare to consider this or that boy attractive, I never believed I was attractive as a teen, and out of self-protection I revelled in the tomboy appearance (except for the long hair). I just didn't dare to wear a dress. I wanted to at times, and I would buy some rarely, but then never dared to go out with those. It took me until I was 27 to realize that when guys had previously told me they believed I was hot or attractive that they actually meant it (no, not a classic beauty, but more like Carey Mulligan), that a lot of men were just scared of approaching me. It's not by chance that I had a tribal swan tattooed on my leg when I finally did accept this to commemorate me coming into myself. 

It is this pain that Arya carries around from the get go that made me connect with her. I recognize her feelings, her frustrations, her talents, but also the easiness with which she befriends people and boys. And when I say I want to hug her, it's more to tell her, "hey, Arya, it's not always going to be like this."

Sansa though isn't the culprit in this. That is Jeyne Poole, and she does it for reasons that Arya doesn't realize: because she envies Arya's birth status and fears she might come between her friendship with Sansa. Before Arya came along and by the time Arya was old enough to run after her sister to be "included", Jeyne was closest to a sister that Sansa had. No matter what personality Arya would have had, no matter what her looks would have been, Jeyne would naturally regard her as a threat to her bond with Sansa, and thus behave and act to protect it. In Jeyne's case in that feudal society, Jeyne's bond is not just important for friendships, but for her chances for the future. Can there be any doubt that Septa Mordane would not have mentiond to Sansa within Jeyne's hearing that one day she might be a queen or a warden's wife? A castellan's daughter might make a better match than a commoner, but not necessarily a landed knight or minor lord with a keep or castle of her own. Being Sansa's unique friend however could open such gates. I sympathize with Jeyne even in that. It doesn't matter what reason people or peers cite, but it's an awful feeling to be told that you won't be desirable to a section of society for something outside of your powers - whether those are appearances or birth status.

And then suddenly there's this younger sister of Sansa who (as younger siblings are wont to do) would have searched them out to be included. Jeyne naturally would fear being replaced in the long run. And older siblings with other interests and abilities (including motoric ones) will find waggling toddlers running after them for attention quite annoying. It is normal for both Jeyne and Sansa to reject any of Arya's attempts to bond.

But it is an adult's task to make sure it doesn't become a cycle, let alone fuel it. Mordane certainly did. Arya's memory of Mordane's words to her mother about having the hands of a smoth burn in her brain like some of that shitty teacher's words to me did. I was rarely a child who would talk back and give retorts to adults, but when I had the chance I certainly did so with that man, though I was but 7. Managed to shut him up too. (The man attempted to mock me for drawing a police woman, for wasn't that more of a job for a boy, and I told him with a very specific Dutch term that what he was saying was gender bias. And no he didn't say it as a lead in to the subect of gender bias, because he never used my statement to expand on the subject. He just glared at me, clenched his teeth and ignored me the rest of the schoolyear).

Now, while I agree that Ned Stark should have had a heart-to-heart with Sansa as well, I understand where the mistake came from. And I wouldn't be so sure that Cat didn't have a heart-to-heart with Sansa at some point. In fact it's been hinted there was: when Sansa inquired whether Arya might be a bastard as well. We don't get the full conversation on it, just the glimpse in Sansa's memory. I get the impression that Sansa asked this at a time when Jeyne started to call Arya names and Sansa was at an age to be abhorred by having a clumsy toddler sister trying to trail her. From Jeyne's attempt to bring up Arya as a subject to gossip about (she'd seen her walking on her hands in the stables of the red keep), we also get a hint that Jeyne was repeating past behaviour. It's noticeable that Jeyne does this shortly after Sansa's response about Jeyne calling Lord Beric a hero, brave and gallant. And in fact, Sansa thinks the truths that I pointed out about Jeyne's chances of making a serious advantageous match at the same time.  And yes, Sansa keeps these thoughts to herself, but Jeyne is so tuned into being Sansa's pleasing companion (eventually mentioning lemoncakes) that she certainly heard the begrudgedness and doubt in Sansa's "I suppose so" only to then hear Sansa talk about the dream she had about her prince Joffrey. Jeyne doesn't mention Arya to please Sansa, though she may consciously believe so, but rather imo to vent her frustrations.

Anyway, I have no doubt that Sansa and Jeyne used to have a short period where they delighted in gossiping about Arya in a derogotary way, likely several years before the start of the books, and that made Sansa brave enough to ask her mother about Arya's birth status. Cat's answer is probably but a fragment of a longer talk about sisterhood, her being the older sister to set an example, etc. I do think Sansa curbed her behaviour towards Arya after that conversation. Sansa's objective behaviour during the stitching scene in Arya's first chapter is irreproachable. It's Jeyne who smirks. I doubt that Sansa was mean to Arya directly for long in the past. But alas, even if it were but a few instances, for Arya as the target, those few instances in her young life would have hurt her tremendously.

I agree that Arya doesn't resent Sansa for her talents, but because she gets the praise, whereas Arya is written off as having hands to shoe a horse and being publically humiliated by Mordane at every chance the woman has a chance, without ever hearing her mother defend her to the woman or hear her praise her. She gets a serious scolding by Cat after throwing Mordane's judgment back at her. Instead my parents were proud of me to correct that shitty teacher I had over the police drawing. I agree that Arya craves to be praised as well, but not just for talents. While it's true that Arya's a tomboy and doesn't want to or would ever be a little lady, she does wants to be recognized as a girl, as having female qualities. For me, her identity search isn't just "what job she will have" or "anti-marriage". It's also about reconciling her tomboyish pursuits as well as being recognized as feminine. That's why Ned's heart-to-heart was so powerful, when he compared her to Lyanna. It's the first time she's compared to a female example of whom she only has heard praise. That's why she liked the lady of Acorn Hall. On the surface it's about being called pretty, but on a deeper level it's a praise where a different type of femininity is praised.

And as much as it is sad that Ned never had such a heart to heart with Sansa, it's sad that Cat (who is a woman of action and in my mind not delicate, and therefore an excellent example for Arya just as well) never seems to have had a positive heart-to-heart with Arya, though she expressed warmth and respect about Arya to Sansa when she assured Sansa that Arya was trueborn.

I do think that it was an error by Cat and Ned to send Arya to KL at that age with such a history, not to avoid sending a "troublemaker" to KL, but because I think it would have been to Arya's benefit to remain at Winterfell. That would be the first time really that she would be the sole Stark daughter at the castle to whom other girls such as Beth would have to look for in guidance and without having a persistent reminder that she doesn't live up to her sister's abilties. I think that might actually have mellowed her out somewhat, as we see at Acorn Hall, and would have improved her relation with her mother (with Mordane absent). I know Cat loves Arya, but Arya clearly doesn't know that. She believes she can only disappoint her mother. Without Mordane running to Cat to scold Arya whenever Arya responds antagonistically after being picked on at each chance the woman gets, there would be far more moments where Cat could just be a mother to Arya.

And Sansa's own response to Jeyne bringing up Arya is in a sense a sign of maturing feelings towards Arya. Even if it's rejective at the surface, it's the first step in Sansa's own POV where she takes a step back from trying to correct or change Arya, and just let Arya be Arya for a while, allowing for Arya to have different pursuits and interests. She may not care for those, even abhor them, but it's not helpful to either of them at this point that Sansa is trying to be the big sister to set the example for Arya. Arya already has ingrained the belief that she cannot match up to her sister. It's just a painful reminder that she's sure to fail, when Sansa comes to fetch her to visit with the queen and Myrcella in that cart. And indeed for a 9 year old tomboy, Arya's just too young yet to be interested in courtly life. She has no interest in boys other than to whack sticks with then, let alone femininity beyond the desire that people recognize she's a girl. The shift towards this truly starts when she's getting closer to Gendry, not much yet in the beginning, but by aSoS, she's getting very sensitive and defensive about what he thinks of her in a dress. She betrays her negative beliefs about it by making sure the dress is ruined. But regrets it later, and although she doesn't like the dress the whores of the Peach put her in, she's actually quite ok with the purple dress with pearls that the lady of Acorn Hall has her wear after telling her she's pretty, and after she ruined the Acorn dress. And when she's 11, Arya betrays a healthy dose of interest in feminity, when she's basically fawning over the courtesans at Braavos. The way she gossips about this or that courtesan picking a new protege or the Black Swan buying something from her and saying some kind words to her is really not that different than Sansa and Jeyne discussing the gallantry of this and that knight at the tourney. The difference is that Sansa and Jeyne already know they're pretty and therefore have no need of recognition from other women over this, but by boys and men instead. Arya though craves such praise from the "sisterhood" first, before she can ever accept it from men or boys.

And I also agree that the constant praise that Sansa got in a way harmed her too. She has come to see herself as the good daughter who never does any wrong. She therefore is incapable of admiting to herself that she's not always good, long before she indulges herself in being as "wicked as Arya". Some of the things she says in KL did deserve a comment. Too bad Mordane scolds her by telling she's turning into Arya. It's an awful way to correct someone's behaviour, not just to Arya but to Sansa as well.

[Lyanna<3Rhaegar]

@sweetsunray I want to respond in depth but don't have time just now. 

For now, I'll leave it with - wonderful post! I thoroughly enjoy your insight into Arya! 

[Nagini's Neville]

2 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

But they are married. That did happen. Its important to honor vows. Doubly with wedding vows.

So you need to honor vows that were forced out of you? What kind of logic is that. What they did to Sansa was a crime. There is nothing right or honorable about this marriage. And Tyrion didn't wait to take advantage of the situation.

And no one owns to uphold anything to someone, who sexually assaulted them, when they were a child, completely alone, voiceless and powerless. In her biggest moment of fear and terror, he didn't even have an once of kindness for her. And no I am not talking about kind words here, you can stay friendly, while acting cruel.

[Nagini's Neville]

23 hours ago, Elegant Woes said:

I always took Sansa's bastard brave as Sansa admiring that trait in Jon. I mean Alayne is based on him, so it's fair to assume that she's projecting what she likes and admires about Jon onto Alayne Stone. 

I agree. I got that feeling too. But why do you think Alayne is based on Jon? Did I miss something in the text?

[Big P]

On 1/4/2020 at 2:01 PM, Nagini's Neville said:

Who are your 10 favorite characters and why?  If there is an order, in which order? 

I like each of these folks for different reasons.  I may like a heroine like Daenerys Targaryen because of her values.  I can also like a villain like Walder Frey because he's just so hilarious.  Readable is what they all have in common.  By this, I mean enjoyable to read.  Samwell Tarly is a nice boy but he doesn't make the list because he doesn't contribute to my enjoyment of the material. Yet asses like Daario Naharis and Oberyn Martell are included.  Intelligent people like Margaery Tyrell, Daenerys Targaryen, Catelyn Stark, and Green Grace make the cut.  Bloodraven, Quaithe, and Hizdahr zo Loraq just make it on the skin of their teeth for being mysterious.  So here they are in no particular order.  No order for me.  I enjoy them.

Smart Women Club:  Daenerys, Margaery, Catelyn, Quaithe

Awesome Villains:  Walder Frey, Hizdahr zo Lorag

Bad Boys:  Oberyn, Daario

The Romantics:  Jorah, Brynden (Bloodraven)

Honorable mention to the Green Grace.  She just has not had enough time on the page.  

 

 

[The Ned's Little Girl]

2 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

His status isn't equal to what? I understand she believes he is truly, her half-brother but this part of the snobbish attitude Sansa has. The truth isn't always nice & polite, nor does it always need to be said. My point is just because it is the truth doesn't mean she isn't being a little snobbish to point it out or to think of him as less than her or her full-blooded siblings.

Except that to her Jon is less than her and her true-born siblings, according to the society Sansa is growing up in. Everything in her culture has pounded ideas of correct behavior into her head and she doesn't question them, mainly because she gets praise and admiration the more she conforms to them. She is acting and thinking as any noblewoman in her world is expected - indeed, required - to act and think.

Even Robb, who was closer to Jon than anyone else in his family, pointedly reminded Jon of his bastard status as a way to tear down one of his fantasies. 

 

3 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

We know Sansa thinks down on him & we know Sansa isn't particularly fond of bastards at all.

Forgive me, but we don't know that. It's not clear that Sansa isn't particularly fond of bastards either. She thinks they are different than true-born people, that the difference is immutable but I haven't seen anything in the story to suppose that that automatically equates to not particularly fond. She's not particularly fond of Jon, but that's just as much because they have few no common interests and are being raised very differently due to their genders. 

 

3 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Why would it be a bitter memory?

Compare Jon's memories of Catelyn with that one of Sansa. If Sansa treated him as Cat did, I'd guess that recollection of Jon's would be something other than as benign as it is in the text.

 

3 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

She struggles a little with being a bastard to begin with which gives us some notion of what she likely thinks about Jon

She struggles with being a bastard because being a bastard is difficult. Losing her status as a noblewoman is difficult. Overcoming her training and upbringing is difficult. I'm not sure it has anything to do with her feelings or lack thereof for Jon. 

 

3 hours ago, Lyanna<3Rhaegar said:

Right, I wouldn't necessarily call it abusive although such things would take an emotional & psychological toll on a child. The only female "mother" figure he has is cold, distant, & tries to avoid him at all costs unless she has something particularly mean to say to him. That is sort of punishing him for his existence. Not physically but if this were real life Jon would have quite the set of mommy issues to deal with. 

Absolutely it takes a toll on Jon and I cannot (would never) argue that it doesn't. But just to be clear: Catelyn is not his mother. Jon was forced on her, she had no choice whatever about him being in her household and he symbolically represents something extremely painful to her, both personally and publicly. From her point of view, why should she be a mother to Jon? From her point of view, she doesn't owe him anything.

That's the tragedy of it.

[Nagini's Neville]

3 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

But they are married. That did happen. Its important to honor vows. Doubly with wedding vows.

Marring Sansa falls in the same line with murdering Robb and Cat at the Twins.

Politically the right move for the Lannisters, an act of war against the Starks. Both are crimes against them. Therefore in no way is Sansa bound to anything, that her enemies forced her to do, that she made very clear, she did not consent to in anyway.

They were using her to bring down her family. And Tyrion already broke a sacred oath to her mother to bring her back. So how should any vow made by her daughter to him have any meaning at all.

 

 

[Lollygag]

1 hour ago, Hugorfonics said:

2 hours ago, Springwatch said:

And what makes you think she doesn't call him 'Jon'? The quote doesn't show that at all. Only that she avoids 'bastard'.

.

He  missed the girls too, even Sansa, who never called him anything but "my half brother" since  she was old enough to understand what bastard meant .

I thought this too for a while, but this interpretation falls apart very quickly. 

What it means is that when Sansa needed to refer to Jon's familial status, it was "my half brother". She often but not always thinks of him like this, but she was never like Catelyn in refusing to even say his name. Sansa didn't go around for years and years saying things like, "my half brother, would you please pass the salt?" Think about living your entire childhood only referring to your sibs and playmates as "my brother" or "my sister" and nothing else. It's not possible and frankly sounds kinda psycho. 

Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard." 

That said, she does differentiate Jon's status in a way different from the others (though they distinguish his status too, sometimes), just not to the point of absurdity. Sansa's a hard-core people pleaser especially when it comes to authority and we've seen her get paralyzed in confusion when getting mixed messages from authority before*. Differentiating Jon's status but avoiding the bastard label was how she reconciled those mixed messages from Ned and Cat. 

*Sansa freezes in the Trident when the King, Queen, the Crown Prince and her Father all want something different from her. She tells on her father to Cersei, who is her Queen and almost Mother-in-Law. Her whole arc in KL is about navigating a mine-field of authority figures and she has to figure out what they all want and she has to please them all or endure very dire consequences. It's part of a larger theme of the books. Jaime has the same problem with his having to juggle oaths to conflicting interests, Varys poses the riddle of whether the sellsword follows the king, the priest, or the wealthy man, and we see Varys' riddle played out when KL is conflicted in whether to follow the King (Joffrey), the rich man (Tyrion who stands in for Tywin) or the Priest (sometimes Queen Regent Cersei who seduces like a goddess figure and is likened to that, or the High Septon depending). 

 

[The Ned's Little Girl]

3 hours ago, Hugorfonics said:

She calls him only "her half brother". Instead of like, brother. Or you know, Jon. 

Thats pretty messed up.

But Jon is her half-brother, as far as she knows. Why should she call him brother when he isn't? And when she does think of him as "bastard half-brother", doesn't it simply conform to her understanding of reality with regard to Jon?

I'm kinda perplexed how it can be "pretty messed up" that Sansa refers to him in perfectly correct and accurate terms. As far as she knows.

[kissdbyfire]

22 minutes ago, Nagini's Neville said:

Marring Sansa falls in the same line with murdering Robb and Cat at the Twins.

I’d say the Sansa - Tyrion marriage is similar to Jaime swearing a vow to Cat at sword point while being a PoW. 

[Nagini's Neville]

5 minutes ago, Lollygag said:

I thought this too for a while, but this interpretation falls apart very quickly. 

What it means is that when Sansa needed to refer to Jon's familial status, it was "my half brother". She often but not always thinks of him like this, but she was never like Catelyn in refusing to even say his name. Sansa didn't go around for years and years saying things like, "my half brother, would you please pass the salt?" Think about living your entire childhood only referring to your sibs and playmates as "my brother" or "my sister" and nothing else. It's not possible and frankly sounds kinda psycho. 

Sansa sighed as she stitched. "Poor Jon," she said. "He gets jealous because he's a bastard." 

That said, she does differentiate Jon's status in a way different from the others (though they distinguish his status too, sometimes), just not to the point of absurdity. Sansa's a hard-core people pleaser especially when it comes to authority and we've seen her get paralyzed in confusion when getting mixed messages from authority before*. Differentiating Jon's status but avoiding the bastard label was how she reconciled those mixed messages from Ned and Cat. 

*Sansa freezes in the Trident when the King, Queen, the Crown Prince and her Father all want something different from her. She tells on her father to Cersei, who is her Queen and almost Mother-in-Law. Her whole arc in KL is about navigating a mine-field of authority figures and she has to figure out what they all want and she has to please them all or endure very dire consequences. It's part of a larger theme of the books. Jaime has the same problem with his having to juggle oaths to conflicting interests, Varys poses the riddle of whether the sellsword follows the king, the priest, or the wealthy man, and we see Varys' riddle played out when KL is conflicted in whether to follow the King (Joffrey), the rich man (Tyrion who stands in for Tywin) or the Priest (sometimes Queen Regent Cersei who seduces like a goddess figure and is likened to that, or the High Septon depending). 

 

 

I noticed that too that she freezes at the Trident scene, she gets totally gets white and doesn't even make a fuss, when Arya attacks her (not her style) It's like she is in shock.

Being a people pleaser is a big part of Sansa's dilemma (especially towards authority) 

She could have cried and begged in the wedding night with Tyrion, but she does dutifully what she thinks is demanded of her in such a situation, even though she is shaking with fear and does absolutely not want to do any of it. And this is an authority figure she would have absolutely not have to obey to, since this wedding is an act of war against her family. The same when LF is kissing her.

She has been trained so hard to obey authority figures, that it seems almost impossible for her to break free from it. Poor Sansa.

I can't wait for the moment she finally does