Werthead Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 28 minutes ago, Spockydog said: I'm no expert, but I've read that particles can be present in the air for much longer than an hour. COVID-19 is not an airborne disease in the sense it flies around in the air infecting people. It's droplet-based. As long as someone isn't coughing or sneezing at you in that precise moment, there is no risk to having walked through the same airspace as an infected person several minutes after the event. The virus is spread by droplet transmission and by far the most common form of infection is direct transmission through personal contact. You can even touch the same surface as touched by someone with COVID-19 minutes earlier and as long as you then don't stick your hands in your face afterwards and wash your hands for 20 seconds, you should be fine. In fact, there was some German research which concluded that surface transmission as a vector of infection may be more difficult than previously thought, as they went through people's homes where people with the illness were staying and they found the virus was not present on surfaces in the quantities they expected, with only a marginal risk of infection as long as people kept up the handwashing routine, and the viral load of such exposure was marginal (which is presumably why we seem to be seeing these stories about people having a horrendous time of the virus whilst people they're living with have barely any or no symptoms, or even completely miss getting infected). If you could catch the virus by walking through same airspace as an infected person, half the planet would be infected by now and hospitals would be complete no-go areas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 26 minutes ago, mormont said: If this is directed at Isis, then 'armchair expert' is a totally inaccurate description. She actually does have professional expertise. No, it wasn't. That's why I went back and tried to explain my methodology etc. 27 minutes ago, lessthanluke said: Exactly you're no expert so you know precisely nothing so stop pretending you do. Weren't you the guy who said folks were far more at risk in a supermarket than in a gym? Anyway, If Isis comes on back and assures me, with absolute, 100% certainty, that there is absolutely zero benefit, none whatsoever, to wearing goggles, gloves, and a sealed FFP3 mask when out and about and delivering shopping to my Mum, I'll never post here again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, Werthead said: COVID-19 is not an airborne disease According to the New England Journal of Medicine, it very much is: Aerosol and Surface Stability of SARS-CoV-2 as Compared with SARS-CoV-1 SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus Stable for Several Hours to Days in Aerosols and on Surfaces Quote In a new study, a team of U.S. scientists analyzed the aerosol and surface stability of SARS-CoV-2, which causes COVID-19 disease, and compared it with SARS-CoV-1, the most closely related human coronavirus. They found that SARS-CoV-2 was detectable in aerosols for up to 3 hours, up to 4 hours on copper, up to 24 hours on cardboard and up to 2-3 days on plastic and stainless steel. The results provide key information about the stability of SARS-CoV-2 and suggest that people may acquire the virus through the air and after touching contaminated objects. I mean, what the fuck are we supposed to think? It seems that, across the world, expert advice on what we should or shouldn't be doing has been based on either money, or political agenda. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanluke Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 36 minutes ago, Spockydog said: No, it wasn't. That's why I went back and tried to explain my methodology etc. Weren't you the guy who said folks were far more at risk in a supermarket than in a gym? Yup my gym which I was correct about so not sure of your point? Thousands of people through a place a day all sharing the same baskets and trolleys not maintaining social distancing Vs a few people in a room at a time where everything is being constantly disinfected. But this is a tangent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaveSumm Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 This came up a few weeks back in the COVID thread, there’s a technical definition of ‘airborne’ that as Wert said, means literally flying around infecting people, like a gas. COVID isn’t airborne by that definition, but it can exist in the air, in droplets that someone sneezes out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 14 minutes ago, lessthanluke said: Yup my gym which I was correct about so not sure of your point? My point is you're hardly the font of all fucking knowledge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lessthanluke Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 5 minutes ago, Spockydog said: My point is you're hardly the font of all fucking knowledge. The irony is wonderful. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heartofice Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 34 minutes ago, Spockydog said: It seems that, across the world, expert advice on what we should or shouldn't be doing has been based on either money, or political agenda. I'm sorry this is just not true. In regards to masks, the advice has been pretty consistent the whole way through. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Isis Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 23 hours ago, polishgenius said: Have you got a link for this? Because we've been told, and told, and told, and told, that it's up to two weeks. Are you perhaps confusing the incubation period with the period of infectiousness/communicability? The incubation period for a disease is the time from exposure to clinical presentation (i.e. when patient begins to show symptoms). It is always a range with a median value. In the case of COVID-19, the IP is 2-14 days with a median value of 6*. To be on the safe side it is standard to make the quarantine period (for close contacts of symptomatic individuals) be the same length of time as the longest IP, in this case 14 days. As I said, the IP is a range. Some people will get sick in two days. For some it will take 14 days. It is not the case that people who have been exposed (i.e. either infected or potentially infected) are infectious to others for the entire IP. The duration of infectiousness varies for different pathogens. In Influenza, people are infectious to others before they become symptomatic (but only a short time, i.e. a day). In SARS people were only infectious after they became symptomatic. Not all respiratory viruses behave the same way. SARS CoV-2 is new to us (although we are gathering data all the time). We know via evidence from Wuhan that it is possible for those with no symptoms to infect others but I don't think that we know how long individuals who are exposed (whether they go on to be symptomatic or don't develop any symptoms) are infectious to others. *I have also seen papers which say the median is 5 days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Spockydog said: According to the New England Journal of Medicine, it very much is: Aerosol and Surface Stability of SARS-CoV-2 as Compared with SARS-CoV-1 SARS-CoV-2 Coronavirus Stable for Several Hours to Days in Aerosols and on Surfaces It isn't an airborne virus, which is a very distinct category. SARS-CoV-2 is droplet-based. The droplets can be transmitted through the air when you cough or sneeze, but the droplets themselves don't remain airborne. With an airborne virus you can be infected by breathing in the virus from where it is lingering in the air. With a droplet-based virus you need to be in close proximity to a person and they need to spread the droplets to you by coughing or sneezing at you. Physical proximity to an infectious person is required. Trace elements of the virus may be left in the air by the passage of the droplets, but there has been no indication that infection by this method is possible. Airborne coronaviruses exist, but they are extremely rare and are neither particularly infectious nor dangerous (at least to my knowledge and a quick internet search). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raja Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 This CDC resource re: common questions & answers regarding COVID 19 is very useful, I think it provides enough detail & references to answer questions that are being brought up here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Which Tyler Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 Welo, just catching up a bit. I for one, am glad that we have a self-confessed "not an expert" who's fedup with "arm chair experts" to mansplain to an actual expert with decades of experience (and the rest of us) how feeling personally insulted grants a greater level of knowledge than anyone else here, including said actual real-life expert. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spockydog Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 9 minutes ago, Which Tyler said: Welo, just catching up a bit. I for one, am glad that we have a self-confessed "not an expert" who's fedup with "arm chair experts" to mansplain to an actual expert with decades of experience (and the rest of us) how feeling personally insulted grants a greater level of knowledge than anyone else here, including said actual real-life expert. Not once did I tell anyone what they should or shouldn't be doing. I only explained what I am doing, and the reasons for doing so. Unlike others, who, despite there being no clear consensus on virtually any aspect of this disease amongst the world's various medical orgs, seem to think they've got all the answers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 These masks would might be helpful against Corona.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tywin Manderly Posted April 13, 2020 Author Share Posted April 13, 2020 4 hours ago, Luzifer's right hand said: A lot of companies are using protective equipment to produce stuff that is not really necessary right now including drugs that are only used for doping, additives that make egg yolk yellower and diet drugs that make you shit yourself if you eat too much fat. Those are just things I know about personally. Those companies donating their PPE stockpoiles would do a lot of good but yay capitalism I guess. A prudent government might simply seize such PPE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soylent Brown Posted April 13, 2020 Share Posted April 13, 2020 12 minutes ago, Tywin Manderly said: These masks would might be helpful against Corona.... I don't know, it seems like Matt Tracker et al would be be completely unaffected, and would carry on as normal in the current situation? I doubt they'd share with us plebs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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