US Politics: coughing for peace is like dying for the economy

[Guest]

4 minutes ago, DMC said:

Sure.  This is largely dependent upon either people raising fire alarms or people that know they're on the way out.  There's no impetus for that with Fauci, is my point.  Just because we don't know he "wasn't there" in January and February doesn't mean he wasn't.  Again, I suspect the reason we haven't heard anything about that is because Fauci values the role he can play administering policy over being a Captain Hindsight hero for the left.

Not to mention that Navarro is the most logical source of the leak of the memo.

[DMC]

2 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Not to mention that Navarro is the most logical source of the leak of the memo.

Yeah it was either Navarro or someone who worked for him that was willing/ordered to get fired.

[Fragile Bird]

Apparently back in January Dr. Fauci was saying coronavirus was not a major threat to the US, but I was a bit suspicious of the article that was saying that.

What he did say in January.

Quote

In certain political circles, it has apparently become important to knock Dr. Anthony Fauci, the director of the National Institute of Allergy and Infectious Diseases.

One prominent article at RealClearPolitics argues that in January, Fauci told the public not to worry about the novel coronavirus and that “the administration’s initial reassurances were largely aligned with the assessments of the medical community,” specifically Fauci.

This is not true, and the contention rests on misrepresenting Fauci’s comments.

“On Jan. 21,” writes Kalev Leetaru, Fauci "emphasized that it was unclear whether the virus could spread from person to person.” This is the opposite of what Fauci said, according to the article linked. “While it's clear this new virus can be spread from person to person,” the piece paraphrases Fauci, “it's unclear how easily that spread can happen.”

And

Quote

When asked on that podcast to make a prediction as if he “had a crystal ball,” Fauci gave the following noncommittal answer: “I think things are going to get worse before they get better. And whether this turns into a global pandemic, before it is something that becomes entrenched and we can’t do anything about it, [depends on] if the Chinese can put their arms around, as it were, the outbreak in China, and [whether] ... related countries handle it well enough so that it doesn’t evolve into a sustained outbreak in their country. I think there’s a possibility that it could be turned around the way SARS was turned around. But it’s gonna be a real tightrope walk.”

“There’s a possibility it could be turned around” means: We might be able to prevent a pandemic.

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/dr-fauci-was-correct-more-importantly-he-was-humble

[Guest]

11 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Apparently back in January Dr. Fauci was saying coronavirus was not a major threat to the US, but I was a bit suspicious of the article that was saying that.

What he did say in January.

And

https://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/dr-fauci-was-correct-more-importantly-he-was-humble

Thanks. This is much more in line with the Dr. Fauci we've seen on television.

[Guest]

Tenfold increase in deaths at home in NYC.

Quote

As of Monday afternoon, 2,738 New York City residents have died from ‘confirmed’ cases of COVID-19, according to the city Department of Health. That’s an average of 245 a day since the previous Monday. 

But another 200 city residents are now dying at home each day, compared to 20 to 25 such deaths before the pandemic, said Aja Worthy-Davis, a spokeswoman for the medical examiner’s office. And an untold number of them are unconfirmed.

ETA: And NYC is not counting suspected COVID-19 deaths in the official tally.

[Martell Spy]

Five Wisconsin Voters on What It Feels Like to Vote in a Pandemic

https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2020/04/wisconsin-election-voting-during-coronavirus-pandemic.html

Quote

 

Dwayne: I felt really bad. I’m an essential worker. I ride transit every day to work. I didn’t want to expose more vulnerable people to what I’m already being exposed to at work. So I had this thing in the back of mind: “What other precautions do I have to take to go do this thing that I really want to do, which is vote?”

I really didn’t like that I had to make that choice. It was deeply painful. But this seemed like it was important enough to risk. I’m an African American. I’m originally from the South. I have family who fought for enfranchisement for so long. I know my people’s history with voting rights. I know the electoral process can be disheartening at times, I know that it is not the only way to affect change, but I think it has a deep and symbolic meaning to black people in general. And I think it means a lot to see us at the polls. I feel empowered when I go.

 

 

[Guest]

48 minutes ago, Triskele said:

So weird from the liberal media (by which I just mean non-Trump media) that there was maybe "a blursting og the curve."  Whatever.  At best, that was what was happening in NYC, and even if that is the case, it just misleads everyone about stuff.  

Yep. I'm convinced that the "liberal" media is as much part of the problem as the conservative echo chamber, because they breathlessly report everything he says, no matter how fucking stupid it is. Why the fuck don't they cut away whenever he's talking? I mean, he's actively undermining the whole effort.

Plus, the CDC director mischaracterizes the modeling and projected number of deaths and says that it'll come in lower than the originally projected number of deaths, and the media credulously reports it with no pushback. For reference, the new modeling assumes that the current social distancing standards stay in place through the end of May, not April. Trump will be pushing to open the whole country back up just as soon as the deaths start declining.

[ants]

An interesting read on what Trump has been doing, pulled together in one place.  Frum is a never Trumper, right?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/

[ants]

1 hour ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Yep. I'm convinced that the "liberal" media is as much part of the problem as the conservative echo chamber, because they breathlessly report everything he says, no matter how fucking stupid it is. Why the fuck don't they cut away whenever he's talking? I mean, he's actively undermining the whole effort.

Plus, the CDC director mischaracterizes the modeling and projected number of deaths and says that it'll come in lower than the originally projected number of deaths, and the media credulously reports it with no pushback. For reference, the new modeling assumes that the current social distancing standards stay in place through the end of May, not April. Trump will be pushing to open the whole country back up just as soon as the deaths start declining.

The right and far left like to claim that the media is all biased, part of the DNC machine, etc. etc.  They like to ignore how the media reported on Clinton, how they report on Trump.  The reality is that the major factor driving middle media in the USA (and around the world) is making profit.  

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

6 hours ago, Triskele said:

So weird from the liberal media (by which I just mean non-Trump media) that there was maybe "a blursting og the curve."  Whatever.  At best, that was what was happening in NYC, and even if that is the case, it just misleads everyone about stuff.  

 

[Fragile Bird]

5 hours ago, ants said:

An interesting read on what Trump has been doing, pulled together in one place.  Frum is a never Trumper, right?

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2020/04/americans-are-paying-the-price-for-trumps-failures/609532/

A never Trumper raised in Canada by one of our most famous journalists, Barbara Frum, renowned for not taking shit from anyone.  He’s now an American.

[IheartIheartTesla]

13 hours ago, Mudguard said:

To be fair, Navarro is a trade advisor, and not an epidemiologist or infectious disease expert, so it wouldn't be unexpected for people to discount his predictions regarding the seriousness of COVID-19, much like how people are now discounting his opinion on hydroxychloroquine.  According to the reporting on his memo, he was pretty spot on with many of his predictions and analysis.

That may be true, but if your scenario is half a million dead Americans, then some notice of it must be taken. It also puts to shame Trump's "no one could have predicted how bad this would be" explicitly.

But like I said, it doesnt matter because everyone's opinions are baked in from partisanship (also true of opinions on the economy, for example)

[Fragile Bird]

CNN is reporting that there are now almost 300 coronavirus cases on the Roosevelt. I don't see a story posted yet that I can link.

How sad they had such a stupid or naive captain, right?

And did you see the captain is now one of them?

 

[Mudguard]

1 hour ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

That may be true, but if your scenario is half a million dead Americans, then some notice of it must be taken. It also puts to shame Trump's "no one could have predicted how bad this would be" explicitly.

But like I said, it doesnt matter because everyone's opinions are baked in from partisanship (also true of opinions on the economy, for example)

Yeah, his report definitely contradicts Trump claim that no one could have predicted this.  And predictably, Trump is claiming that he didn't read it.  Maybe true though if the reports that Trump rarely reads his briefing materials are true.

[Mudguard]

10 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Tenfold increase in deaths at home in NYC.

ETA: And NYC is not counting suspected COVID-19 deaths in the official tally.

We are seeing this type of under-counting everywhere now, Spain, Italy, and here in the US.  There have been reports that the numbers of coronavirus related deaths in Wuhan was under-reported, and I think this at least partially explains what happened over there.  

[Maithanet]

6 minutes ago, Mudguard said:

Yeah, his report definitely contradicts Trump claim that no one could have predicted this.  And predictably, Trump is claiming that he didn't read it. 

That is one of the rare Trump statements that I fully believe. 

[sologdin]

Quote

Yep. I'm convinced that the "liberal" media is as much part of the problem as the conservative echo chamber, because they breathlessly report everything he says, no matter how fucking stupid it is. Why the fuck don't they cut away whenever he's talking? I mean, he's actively undermining the whole effort.

in profit-oriented capitalist journalism (both the bourgeois liberal and rightwing illiberal variants), the most cost-effective reportage is reprinting governmental and corporate press releases and quoting numbnut governmental and corporate press conferences, insofar as the content is given to the journalists freely and there's a large audience to be delivered to advertisers for this sort of authoritarian bluster.  it is a well documented process--see for instance bagdikian's media monopoly, mcchesney's rich media, poor democracy, palast's best democracy money can buy, and of course chomsky's manufacturing consent.  the aggressive editorializing of fox news may be even more cost-effective, but it may be merely a difference of degree rather than kind (i.e., if it is actually different).

[Fragile Bird]

Bernie has suspended his campaign.

[Zorral]

19 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Bernie has suspended his campaign.

I wondered if the news had gotten here yet!   Just saw it myself, as been busy with the last supermarket run since 6:30 AM, and just now finished all the disinfecting, changing of clothes, taking bath, putting away, and finally having tea and brekkie, so initiated the daily news cruise.

 

[Paladin of Ice]

11 hours ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Tenfold increase in deaths at home in NYC.

ETA: And NYC is not counting suspected COVID-19 deaths in the official tally.

The article has been updated now with a note that the city will be counting probably Coronavirus deaths that occur at home. So there's that much, at least.

But this is going to be a major issue all around the country. A quick google search shows that just in the last few days articles have come out from local new sources in Michigan, Colorado, NY, and California about undercounts in the death totals and coroners saying they are unable to test bodies to see if the Coronavirus was the cause.

I've said it before and I'll say it again; the reality is worse than the numbers.