US Politics: coughing for peace is like dying for the economy

[DanteGabriel]

22 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Bernie has suspended his campaign.

Oh good, what my day needed is an eruption of "Now Trump is definitely going to win!" whining from the very people whose carefully-nurtured resentment will make that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

[Ormond]

1 hour ago, Mudguard said:

We are seeing this type of under-counting everywhere now, Spain, Italy, and here in the US.  There have been reports that the numbers of coronavirus related deaths in Wuhan was under-reported, and I think this at least partially explains what happened over there.  

I am sure that many of these deaths are Covid-19 related. However, the "at home" death rate would probably also be up for people with several other problems. Response times for ambulances are probably slower, and more importantly I would imagine that people who are having symptoms of a heart attack, stroke, etc. are going to be much more scared of ending up in a hospital at this point in history and so are going to be delaying call for help, perhaps until it's too late. And I saw a woman on one of the morning news shows whose father had had his "elective" heart surgery cancelled because of the crisis and who just died at home of heart failure a couple of days ago. 

So unfortunately it will probably take a lot of research after the fact to figure out just how many of the increased at-home deaths actually had Covid-19. My unprofessional guess is that way over half of the increase are people with Covid, but what do I really know?

[Fragile Bird]

9 minutes ago, Ormond said:

I am sure that many of these deaths are Covid-19 related. However, the "at home" death rate would probably also be up for people with several other problems. Response times for ambulances are probably slower, and more importantly I would imagine that people who are having symptoms of a heart attack, stroke, etc. are going to be much more scared of ending up in a hospital at this point in history and so are going to be delaying call for help, perhaps until it's too late. And I saw a woman on one of the morning news shows whose father had had his "elective" heart surgery cancelled because of the crisis and who just died at home of heart failure a couple of days ago. 

So unfortunately it will probably take a lot of research after the fact to figure out just how many of the increased at-home deaths actually had Covid-19. My unprofessional guess is that way over half of the increase are people with Covid, but what do I really know?

CNN has reported a number of cases where someone without any Covid-19 symptoms has been admitted to hospital without being tested, only to develop symptoms shortly afterwards, meaning doctors, nurses, other hospital workers and other patients have to be tested or need to self-isolate. The first one I heard about was a woman going in for tests related to her pregnancy. She exposed 22 hospital staff personnel because she was likely a spreader.

Hospitals have to treat every patient as a possible Covid-19 candidate.

[Mr. Chatywin et al.]

14 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Oh good, what my day needed is an eruption of "Now Trump is definitely going to win!" whining from the very people whose carefully-nurtured resentment will make that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Oddly I think all of this has largely diminished much of this.

Or at least I hope so.

[Zorral]

OTOH, Sanders is merely 'suspending' his campaign.  He's staying on the ballots and continues to collect delegates.

[sologdin]

using the very precise and unimpeachably rigorous methods pioneered in anti-soviet propaganda as first developed by monarchists, then continued by fascists, and perfected ultimately on these bases by US cold warriors, all these uncounted excess deaths must be added to the capitalism's reckoning in general and trump's tally in particular.

[Fragile Bird]

Didn't everybody else also 'suspend' their campaign?

[Guest]

24 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Oh good, what my day needed is an eruption of "Now Trump is definitely going to win!" whining from the very people whose carefully-nurtured resentment will make that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Is this really necessary right now?

Sanders' supporters are going to be upset with their candidate backing out, just like every other candidate's supporters were when they dropped out. Piling on by already beginning to construct a narrative to explain a possible Biden loss in the general certainly isn't going to make those supporters more amenable to backing Biden.

[IheartIheartTesla]

Its a shame his campaign had to end; I feel the events of the past few months have shown that Americans do have tolerance for universal basic incomes, and maybe a little more sympathy for some form of universal health care. "How do we pay for all his social programs" now just seems silly in retrospect, since we never really 'pay' for anything in full. 

Its also a bit unlucky timing for him, as I think 4 years down the road there may be more tolerance for some of the progressive ideas. A younger candidate (say in their 50s) would be a better vehicle. And I'd vote for them in the primary before I do so for a middle of the road candidate.

By the way, most of the last month he was fundraising for charities and voting on bills, so it wasnt as if campaigning was going on full steam.

[DanteGabriel]

7 minutes ago, The Great Unwashed said:

Is this really necessary right now?

Sanders' supporters are going to be upset with their candidate backing out, just like every other candidate's supporters were when they dropped out. Piling on by already beginning to construct a narrative to explain a possible Biden loss in the general certainly isn't going to make those supporters more amenable to backing Biden.

I'm describing what I'm seeing on my feed, not making a prediction.

If Bernie is doing this so that psychotic Republican state governments don't force voters into voting lines again, that's kind and noble of him. I wish his voters would learn from that example.

[Frey family reunion]

19 minutes ago, Zorral said:

OTOH, Sanders is merely 'suspending' his campaign.  He's staying on the ballots and continues to collect delegates.

The Washington Post is reporting that he is "ending his campaign".  For whatever that's worth.

[Frey family reunion]

2 minutes ago, IheartIheartTesla said:

Its a shame his campaign had to end; I feel the events of the past few months have shown that Americans do have tolerance for universal basic incomes, and maybe a little more sympathy for some form of universal health care. "How do we pay for all his social programs" now just seems silly in retrospect, since we never really 'pay' for anything in full. 

Its also a bit unlucky for him, as I think 4 years down the road there may be more tolerance for some of the progressive ideas. A younger candidate (say in their 50s) would be a better vehicle. And I'd vote for them in the primary before I do so for a middle of the road candidate.

By the way, most of the last month he was fundraising for charities and voting on bills, so it wasnt as if campaigning was going on full steam.

My fear is that the Democrats may be making the same mistake that was made back in 2004.  Running a candidate on the theory that the he will be better the better bet to beat the incumbent as opposed to nominating someone that is generating excitement within the party.  I'm no fan of Sanders but he at least would be able to match Trump's energy.  Biden, I'm not so sure about.

Is it too late for a do over and perhaps look to Governor Cuomo?

[Fez]

18 minutes ago, Fragile Bird said:

Didn't everybody else also 'suspend' their campaign?

Everyone, and I mean everyone, suspends their campaigns rather than formally end them; its very specific FEC language that lets their campaign continue to exist as a financial entity. This means they don't need to return donations or immediately settle outstanding accounts with vendors (I think Rudy still hasn't paid all his vendors from the '08 campaign), and it means they technically still have delegates at the convention.

[GrimTuesday]

4 hours ago, Fragile Bird said:

A never Trumper raised in Canada by one of our most famous journalists, Barbara Frum, renowned for not taking shit from anyone.  He’s now an American.

And 100% piece of shit. Never forget that most of these "Never Trumpers" were the same ghouls who beat the drum for war, excused torture, shilled for the worst excess of the right wing and capitalism, and actively hurt our nation. Then they have the nerve to sit there and whine about how we need to appease them and give them someone they can vote for. Him, Bill Kristol, and people like that have suddenly grown a conscience because they don't personally like the guy in charge must never be rehabilitated and should driven into the sea. I can't wait to dance on their graves (after they die of natural causes).

56 minutes ago, DanteGabriel said:

Oh good, what my day needed is an eruption of "Now Trump is definitely going to win!" whining from the very people whose carefully-nurtured resentment will make that a self-fulfilling prophecy.

Bernie dropping out is a shame, and I do think that Biden is a weak candidate who very well could get Trump re-elected, but at this point the die is cast and there is no sense in whining and carrying on. That said, blaming the left if Biden loses is going to be even more obnoxious. They spent so much time trying to bring the disaffected right wing into the fold that they dropped the ball and alienated the left wing of the party.

From the second that Klobuchar and Pete dropped out, the DNC had put their hand on the scale and reminded us that this is their playground that they are letting us play in, and that it was over. I don't consider this to be some great betrayal, because that is politics, but you can't deny that it was a concerted effort to deny Bernie the nomination. The odds were massively stacked against Bernie, but I have to believe that in the long run, he will have changed the course of the Democratic party and the country for the better.

 

[Fury Resurrected]

1 minute ago, GrimTuesday said:

 

From the second that Klobuchar and Pete dropped out, the DNC had put their hand on the scale and reminded us that this is their playground that they are letting us play in, and that it was over. I don't consider this to be some great betrayal, because that is politics, but you can't deny that it was a concerted The odds were massively stacked against Bernie, but I have to believe that in the long run, he will have changed the course of the Democratic party and the country for the better.

 

I say this as a fervent Sanders supporter who hates Klobuchar (in her home state) and Buttigieg- that’s not the DNC tipping the scale. That’s the centrists putting their ideals over personal interest. It’s what Warren SHOULD have done for progressive ideology, and failed to.

And I say that also as someone with no intention of voting for Joe Biden after the sexual assault allegations. As a rape survivor myself, I’m not voting for the lesser of two rapists. Before that broke I was gonna do it, but now I cannot. I don’t understand how anyone is claiming Biden is not a weak candidate. He’s not the guy he was a few years ago and this campaign has underlined that many times.

[Liffguard]

14 minutes ago, Fez said:

Everyone, and I mean everyone, suspends their campaigns rather than formally end them; its very specific FEC language that lets their campaign continue to exist as a financial entity. This means they don't need to return donations or immediately settle outstanding accounts with vendors (I think Rudy still hasn't paid all his vendors from the '08 campaign), and it means they technically still have delegates at the convention.

Presumably it means that if something comes out of left field to completely derail the front-runner, in theory they could reactivate their campaigns as well? Given how chaotic everything is at the moment, it seems far from impossible that events might unfold in such a way that Biden is no longer viable come convention time.

[Kalbear]

1 hour ago, Zorral said:

OTOH, Sanders is merely 'suspending' his campaign.  He's staying on the ballots and continues to collect delegates.

That is literally what every other person has done as well. It doesn't matter.

[Kalbear]

23 minutes ago, Liffguard said:

Presumably it means that if something comes out of left field to completely derail the front-runner, in theory they could reactivate their campaigns as well? Given how chaotic everything is at the moment, it seems far from impossible that events might unfold in such a way that Biden is no longer viable come convention time.

Again, as long as someone does not have enough first-party ballots to win the nomination outright at the convention ANYONE can get the nomination. Including anyone without a single delegate. Suspending or ending a campaign doesn't matter in the least for this. 

Now, after the convention it becomes very weird, especailly as it gets closer to the election date, but before that? Really isn't an issue in the slightest no matter what happens. Biden hits a huge scandal, Biden dies, Biden goes Republican, Biden goes into a coma - any and all of that won't matter in the least as far as picking Sanders or anyone else. And delegates at that point won't matter at all, either. 

[IheartIheartTesla]

Looks like Trump's approval ratings are slowly trending down again (not that they were high to begin with). Even Rasmussen's polling never had him above 50, so it wasnt like he was turning over massive numbers to his side. I'm also glad to see a few more A grade pollsters in the average, so I think 44% approval is where is at right about now.

Groundhog day all over again.

[Jaxom 1974]

1 hour ago, Tywin et al. said:

Oddly I think all of this has largely diminished much of this.

Or at least I hope so.

Not what I'm seeing on Twitter and Facebook (consider the sources, I know...) but I'm seeing too many people talking about how "now they can't vote..." 

I need to know better people...