Fury Resurrected Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Simon Steele said: I agree, and I mean more how Trump is itching to get the military onto our streets. That he wants use of force to not be rubber bullets, but real bullets, etc. The police are monsters who have long been protected by all sides. I'm with you. In terms of Trump, I'm more worried about the actual military occupation of our cities. Then again, they're less trigger happy than the fucking cops. Trump is saying that yes, but as someone with no real skin in the game. Republican mayors and governors aren’t going to be firing real bullets any faster than the Democrats. Everyone is calling in the national Guard (who have not been any less trigger happy and even more so in cases), and trump will claim that as the military and spin it as doing what he said because people are dumb and will believe it and give him credit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, DMC said: I didn't think it was. My point/argument is simply that prosecuting the preceding president is a bad idea, and sets a precedent you know full well the GOP will abuse the next time they're in office. Who says the next GOP President won't be worse than this one? I thought Dubya was the worst POTUS of my lifetime (arguably Reagan was worse), and I thought they couldn't go lower. Yet, here we are. And who says the next GOP Potus won't be the first to prosecute his predecessor on some made up BS. As we've learnt, the GOP doesn't give fuck about precedent (ask Mitch) civility, or norms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Centrist Simon Steele Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, Fury Resurrected said: Trump is saying that yes, but as someone with no real skin in the game. Republican mayors and governors aren’t going to be firing real bullets any faster than the Democrats. Everyone is calling in the national Guard (who have not been any less trigger happy and even more so in cases), and trump will claim that as the military and spin it as doing what he said because people are dumb and will believe it and give him credit. I edited my post to share a story about trigger happy National Guardsmen. You're completely right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 7 minutes ago, DMC said: I make fun of the social ineptitude of academics as much as anybody, but that doesn't change the fact you're shitting on an entire discipline because you're too lazy - or perhaps incapable - to understand what we have to say. I'm not shitting on them. I'm arguing the field is incomplete. As is the training for the students. Not one professor, not one, even taught me the first thing about knocking on a door and talking to another human being. Which, is kind of important, no? Quote He was a former hand model that helped unravel the conspiracy for Stiller and his wife. Kinda like a deepthroat character, and his hand was protected in glass. Oh shit that's right. He was awesome in that role. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jace, Extat Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 Tombstone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrimTuesday Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: What should they do? The House has nothing to do with confirming judges and Schumer might as well be Aimee for all the power he has. This road was paved in 2015 and 16, my man. Sounds like you're just lashing out again. They need to be out there actually calling attention to this shit, because a strongly worded letter doesn't mean jack shit. They should be calling attention that McConnell keep confirming judges rather than helping those suffering in this time of pandemic, they should be calling out the actions of the police, Senators should be boycotting the Senate right now, Not like their presence makes any difference right now. I'm so sick of people acting like there is nothing else we could be doing right now and clapping when Nancy Pelosi "owns" Trump through some absolutely meaningless action like ripping up his speech or calling him fat. We have to demand more of our leaders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kairparavel Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 They're closing down streets in DC on our primary day. There's a 7pm curfew while polls are open to 8pm. JFC. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Chatywin et al. Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 34 minutes ago, Jace, Basilissa said: Tombstone Start a new thread, Smalls, or the BIRD! will beat you to it. And God forbid the fake Tywin makes one first. Did you want the Nazis to get the Ark first, Jace? Did you?!?!?!?!? ETA: Well sometimes the refresh button is your friend.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 23 minutes ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Who says the next GOP President won't be worse than this one? I totally expect the next GOP president to be worse than this one. Which is exactly why I don't want to unnecessarily give him or her ammo to make a political point. I can literally name legitimate reasons to prosecute every president since at least FDR. That doesn't mean you afford the opposition the justification for doing so. The goal should be to try and not be a banana republic, not lean into it. 24 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said: I'm not shitting on them. I'm arguing the field is incomplete. As is the training for the students. Not one professor, not one, even taught me the first thing about knocking on a door and talking to another human being. Which, is kind of important, no? Not really, no. Learning how to canvass has very little to do with political science. You have, on multiple occasions, dismissed my discipline as if you have a superior intuition on politics. There's an aspect of that that is true - there are political scientists out there that don't give a shit about politics and just enjoy problem-solving - but I've grown tired of your self-imagined superior attitude towards the discipline. You do not have a better idea about politics because you've worked on some campaigns. You are not aware of the tonnage of research that's devoted to trying to figure out everything from decision-making of leadership to general state-building to the behavior of the electorate, and that's just a start. Acting like this is because people don't go out in the field - when field research is a huge-ass part of the discipline and the basis of how you and everybody else acquires such knowledge - is absurd and offensive to countless of my colleagues, advisors, and yes, myself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maithanet Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Fury Resurrected said: As someone in Minneapolis with an extremely lefty mayor (no republicans even ran for mayor to my knowledge. The top eight polling mayoral candidates were all left) and a democratic governor and a democratic AG and two democratic senators- living in Ilhan Omar’s district- I honestly cannot imagine the use of force on these demonstrations being higher under republicans. In places that are red this is happening, use of force hasn’t been more extreme than here in MPLS. I don’t think there is anyone left in the city who doesn’t know someone who has been brutalized by the police. I'm a little surprised to read this. Given that Simon's post was wrt Trump v Biden, do you feel that the protests nationwide would have the same intensity and suffering if we had President Clinton/Biden rather than Trump? Because while most policing is obviously not done at the federal level, tweets from the President about thugs and overwhelming force seem designed to intentionally fan the flames, whereas Biden's response of empathy, reconciliation, and the need to address racism is much more likely to diffuse the situation. Likewise Trump's DOJ has actively ignored police abuse in a way that the Obama administration never did. I'm not saying it would solve all the problems - racism in America is bigger than the President, but I still feel it would be an undeniable improvement IMO. Are you arguing that words are wind, and none of that really matters? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
A Horse Named Stranger Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, DMC said: The goal should be to try and not be a banana republic, not lean into it. I agree with that. I disagree with your assessment, on how to avoid getting there. Rule of Law (or Absence of). So letting Papa Don and Baby Don just see out the rest of their lives as if nothing happens is what is setting the US on its way to the Banana Republic. And not actually letting the courts do their job. I mean the obstruction of justice in the Stone case alone is bad enough. You are either inviting more corrupt failed business man with mafia ties into the White House. Why stop there, why not have a GOP primary with the heads of Gambinos, Luccheses and Bonanos run. They at least know how to cover their tracks a bit better. I mean, I really I find your suggestion and its implications absurd. If you don't want to prosecute open corruption, then why bother with the pretense that the US is not a banana republic? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMC Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 minute ago, A Horse Named Stranger said: Rule of Law (or Absence of). So letting Papa Don and Baby Don just see out the rest of their lives as if nothing happens is what is setting the US on its way to the Banana Republic. And not actually letting the courts do their job. I mean the obstruction of justice in the Stone case alone is bad enough. You are either inviting more corrupt failed business man with mafia ties into the White House. Why stop there, why not have a GOP primary with the heads of Gambinos, Luccheses and Bonanos run. They at least know how to cover their tracks a bit better. If the "courts," or state prosecutors, have good reason to prosecute Trump, sure go at it. And again, if there are legit reasons to prosecute others in his administration or family, that's not what I'm talking about. I just think it's a bad idea for a president, or her DOJ, to prosecute her predecessor. Also, I suspect your naming of NYC italian mafia families is a bit antiquated. It's like talking about Genovese, Gambino, Anastasia as if they haven't been dead for decades. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Werthead Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Altherion said: No, he's going to talk tough, but refrain from actually doing anything beyond staging photo ops. Once the situation has calmed down, he will try to take credit for calming it down and blaming the Democratic mayors and governors of the places with the worst rioting and looting for not being tough enough. There is an interesting consistency with Trump in that he likes to talk tough and escalate things but then doesn't actually follow through and tries to claim credit when tensions dissipate (as we saw with North Korea, the trade dispute with China and Iran, to a lesser extent). I'm not quite sure the same thing applies here, but I think he might hesitate to actually "send in the troops" when he has multiple governors and generals telling him this is an extremely bad idea. Among other things, his current actions could ensure there is a close to maximum turnout for Biden in November among African Americans, instead of the apathy for Clinton we saw in 2016 that drove a seven-point drop in turnout. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fury Resurrected Posted June 2, 2020 Share Posted June 2, 2020 1 hour ago, Maithanet said: I'm a little surprised to read this. Given that Simon's post was wrt Trump v Biden, do you feel that the protests nationwide would have the same intensity and suffering if we had President Clinton/Biden rather than Trump? Because while most policing is obviously not done at the federal level, tweets from the President about thugs and overwhelming force seem designed to intentionally fan the flames, whereas Biden's response of empathy, reconciliation, and the need to address racism is much more likely to diffuse the situation. Likewise Trump's DOJ has actively ignored police abuse in a way that the Obama administration never did. I'm not saying it would solve all the problems - racism in America is bigger than the President, but I still feel it would be an undeniable improvement IMO. Are you arguing that words are wind, and none of that really matters? Yes, I do think this would be the same under any president. In Minneapolis, Jamar Clark was murdered while Obama was in office. Nothing happened in that case. There are differences between the parties, but those differences don’t create realities that make police interaction as safe for minorities as for white people. If Democrats want the high ground, they need to make that happen. Like banning tear gas. Like requiring cops to live where they police. Like holding police in custody after a shooting like this. Democrats haven’t helped and are stained by this too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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