US Politics: A small step from going viral to going postal

[Kalbear]

55 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

It's like being with a new lover and noticing their fingers are stealthily moving dangerously close towards your butthole.... 

And then they dont?

[Guy Kilmore]

3 hours ago, Tywin et al. said:

And that's why Trump likely has NPD rather than being a typical narcissist. Otherwise I agree with what you're saying on the macro level, but with Trump specifically, yes, I think it's fair to say that he's just flat out dumb. I've seen no evidence to suggest that he's smart or even of average intelligence.

 

4 hours ago, Mindwalker said:

No, I just think THIS particular narcissist isn't very bright. I could b wrong, and he just plays dumb, but I don't think so.

ETA: It's nice to know that the USA, and possibly a president DT, will have a shiny new nuclear weapons system...

NPD is what I was referring too.  Over my years in mental health I have had dealings with a variety of personality disorders (thankfully never Antisocial Personality Disorder).  He reminds me of some of the more severe ones that I have worked with, he just has the means to support it. The only reason that I quibble on it a little bit, because if he is merely stupid then one could make the argument that he doesn't understand what what he is doing.  I think he does, he just doesn't give a shit, as the payout he goes for is merely whatever makes him feel powerful and "the best."  He is locked into that kind of mind frame.  Calling him stupid could lead to the sense of underestimating him, or well not evaluating correctly the way that he makes decisions.  

This is really a minor thing, it is more, I don't think people realize what they are getting into when they deal with people who have personality disorders and presentation.

[Kalbear]

He acts like a person who doesn't have to worry about what he does. Who never is responsible for anything. This isn't particularly stupid; it's pretty accurate so far.

[Larry of the Lawn]

Some Wisconsin drama:

 

ETA: and no, it's not THE Michael MacDonald

[Martell Spy]

$2,933 for ‘Girl’s Night’: Medicaid chief’s consulting expenses revealed
Seema Verma, a member of the coronavirus task force, spent more than $3.5 million taxpayer dollars on GOP-aligned consultants, a congressional report found.

https://www.politico.com/news/2020/09/10/seema-verma-medicaid-expenses-411539

Quote

 

When Seema Verma, the Trump administration's top Medicaid official, went to a reporter's home in November 2018 for a "Girl's Night" thrown in her honor, taxpayers footed the bill to organize the event: $2,933.

When Verma wrote an op-ed on Fox News' website that fall, touting President Donald Trump's changes to Obamacare, taxpayers got charged for one consultant's price to place it: $977.

And when consultants spent months promoting Verma to win awards like Washingtonian magazine's "Most Powerful Women in Washington" and appear on high-profile panels, taxpayers got billed for that too: more than $13,000.

The efforts were steered by Pam Stevens, a Republican communications consultant and former Trump administration official working to raise the brand of Verma, who leads the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services. The prices were the amount a consulting company billed the government for her services, based on her invoices, which were obtained by congressional Democrats.

 

Maybe before pushing work requirements on Medicaid, cut down a little on your own use of government money to hire expensive consultants? If the goal is to save government money and not just to randomly punish Americans.

[Fragile Bird]

Silly question: how many dictators has Trump met at the White House? A quick search lists dictators US presidents have met with over the years, but while there have been meetings they’re not usually at the WH. Obama met Mubaryk at the WH, Nixon threw a state dinner for Suharto. 
 

With all the discussion about the Woodward tapes and about what Trump knew about Covid-19, I kept thinking of that time Trump said he wouldn’t wear a mask because of all the people he met while sitting “behind that beautiful Resolute desk”. The list included kings and great leaders and, he said with relish, dictators.

Just how many dictators have had the privilege of a WH meeting?

[Tywin et al.]

1 hour ago, Guy Kilmore said:

 

NPD is what I was referring too.  Over my years in mental health I have had dealings with a variety of personality disorders (thankfully never Antisocial Personality Disorder).  He reminds me of some of the more severe ones that I have worked with, he just has the means to support it. The only reason that I quibble on it a little bit, because if he is merely stupid then one could make the argument that he doesn't understand what what he is doing.  I think he does, he just doesn't give a shit, as the payout he goes for is merely whatever makes him feel powerful and "the best."  He is locked into that kind of mind frame.  Calling him stupid could lead to the sense of underestimating him, or well not evaluating correctly the way that he makes decisions.  

This is really a minor thing, it is more, I don't think people realize what they are getting into when they deal with people who have personality disorders and presentation.

You may possibly be dealing with an individual who displays signs of both personality disorders with a side of sadism. 

I know we're disagreeing in the margins here, but I still have to push back a bit. A hypothetical person with all the worst personality traits we project on to Trump could still avoid a number of his glaring mistakes. And frankly not giving a shit is something an idiot would do. But moreover, when you examine the man's life, it's just a long serious of mistake after mistake, and it's not like they're understandable ones. We all err as humans. Trump's mistakes however are ones that are colossal in nature and are most times ones that a regular person could probably have avoided. He blurts out what he needs to hide. He telegraphs everything. He was told by engineers that his planes were far too heavy to fly and refused to do much about it, bankrupting his company. He fucking went bankrupt with a casino in prime real estate, and it was because he had other casinos there too and they cannibalized one another. These are just some of the many things that highlight that Donald. J Trump is a fucking dumbass, mental illnesses aside. 

[Maithanet]

8 minutes ago, Triskele said:

Seeing chatter that Dem voters are scared by Trump's schtick on mail in ballots enough to worry it won't count, plan to vote in person instead, then fail to actually do it.  Sounds not great.

Why would Democratic voters be worse than Republicans at voting in person?  Even if they were, how could we know that already, when in person voting hasn't started?

Sounds like typical Democratic defeatism.

[Guy Kilmore]

28 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

You may possibly be dealing with an individual who displays signs of both personality disorders with a side of sadism. 

I know we're disagreeing in the margins here, but I still have to push back a bit. A hypothetical person with all the worst personality traits we project on to Trump could still avoid a number of his glaring mistakes. And frankly not giving a shit is something an idiot would do. But moreover, when you examine the man's life, it's just a long serious of mistake after mistake, and it's not like they're understandable ones. We all err as humans. Trump's mistakes however are ones that are colossal in nature and are most times ones that a regular person could probably have avoided. He blurts out what he needs to hide. He telegraphs everything. He was told by engineers that his planes were far too heavy to fly and refused to do much about it, bankrupting his company. He fucking went bankrupt with a casino in prime real estate, and it was because he had other casinos there too and they cannibalized one another. These are just some of the many things that highlight that Donald. J Trump is a fucking dumbass, mental illnesses aside. 

Again, if he had severe NPD, you are trying to judge him by comparing him to someone with a full toolbox to solve and adapt to problems, he doesn't have that, he has one tool in that tool box and uses it on everything.  That is all he can do.  His great wealth/social status has shielded him from most of the fallout and he continues on because all his actions and energy are focused on fulfilling the grandiose self image that he has of himself.  He has no room for anything else.

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Triskele said:

Why would Democratic voters be worse than Republicans at voting in person?  Even if they were, how could we know that already, when in person voting hasn't started?

As opposed to the opioids GOP voters are on?

[DMC]

1 minute ago, Triskele said:

In all seriousness there's also that element where Dems are likelier to fear the virus.  

As are seniors, so...

Anyway, nobody knows anything on a completely unprecedented election until it happens.

[Varysblackfyre321]

16 minutes ago, Triskele said:

In all seriousness there's also that element where Dems are likelier to fear the virus.  

Sure.
And the Republicans attempts to make mail in vote as hard as possible-at least towards anyone they can't reasonably count on-seniors.

16 minutes ago, DMC said:

As are seniors, so...

Yep. Hench Trump urging them to vote by mail. He's trying to cover his bases. Don't think it's a bad strategy.

[Tywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

Again, if he had severe NPD, you are trying to judge him by comparing him to someone with a full toolbox to solve and adapt to problems, he doesn't have that, he has one tool in that tool box and uses it on everything.  That is all he can do.  His great wealth/social status has shielded him from most of the fallout and he continues on because all his actions and energy are focused on fulfilling the grandiose self image that he has of himself.  He has no room for anything else.

This is also binary. 

But to your latter point, it is a fascinating nature vs. nurture case. Have you bothered to read Mary Trump's book? 

[Tywin et al.]

25 minutes ago, DMC said:

As are seniors, so...

Anyway, nobody knows anything on a completely unprecedented election until it happens.

This feels like it needs some kind of Back to the Future reference, especially since Biff was inspired by Trump. 

[Guy Kilmore]

22 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

This is also binary. 

But to your latter point, it is a fascinating nature vs. nurture case. Have you bothered to read Mary Trump's book? 

It is, but more to illustrate a point.  Our personality is really a social tool box in which we relate to the world.  It is why all the personality disorders have traits that "normal" people share because those attributes are tools in that tool box.  We identify an interaction and then use the appropriate tool to resolve said interaction.  Someone with a personality disorder has a limited tool box.  They can only approach each interaction from the perspective enforced by the disorder.  The more severe the disorder, the more limited the tool box is.  Trump, if he has NPD and it feels like he does, has a limited tool box in which to address any interaction.  So anything he does, if you believe he has NPD, needs to be viewed from that lens. 

Like maybe his lack of education, in his mind, why does he need to learn anything when he already knows everything?  Now most people with NPD when confronted with the reality that that lack of education would bring would run into some conflict and issues.  Trump?  His wealth and social status shielded him from that consequence.

My understanding of personality disorders is that they are genetic (genetic predispositions), but then reinforced through nurturing.  You basically treat them by building a bridge with the therapist who acts as your personality compass and tool box, until the other person is ready to then use those tools on their own.  The hardest two, and most dangerous, from what I have heard to treat is APD, followed by NPD.

ETA:  Not yet, I will probably read it once this guy is out of office.  I can only handle so much Trump.

[The Anti-Targ]

1 hour ago, DMC said:

As are seniors, so...

Anyway, nobody knows anything on a completely unprecedented election until it happens.

Seniors who fear the virus are likely the D voters who are in that demographic. There are some in that demo. 

[DMC]

12 minutes ago, The Anti-Targ said:

Seniors who fear the virus are likely the D voters who are in that demographic. There are some in that demo. 

And again, you have no idea of knowing this:

Quote

Traditionally, there has been little difference in the partisan breakdown in who votes by mail, so this is a new phenomenon.

Perhaps as interesting is we're seeing some traditional vote-by-mail divides be eliminated in our data. Usually, older people are those who vote by mail in larger numbers. In our data, those under the age of 45 seem about as likely to say they'll vote by mail as those 45 years and older in an average across Arizona, Florida and Michigan.

One reason that the age divide is closing is that younger people are more likely to be Democrats. And with Trump arguing against voting by mail, it shouldn't be surprising that we're seeing changes in the types of people who will cast a ballot by mail.

Now, I should note that saying you're going to cast a ballot by mail and actually doing so may end up being two different things. Many Democrats may be saying they'll vote by mail just because they want to register disapproval with Trump. Likewise, many Republicans may say they'll vote in-person to register approval of him.

As Monmouth University pollster Patrick Murray and Edison Research's Joe Lenski have noted, the gaps we've been seeing between Democrats and Republicans voting by mail in primaries hasn't been nearly as large as some polling data may have suggested.

 

[Tywin et al.]

44 minutes ago, Guy Kilmore said:

ETA:  Not yet, I will probably read it once this guy is out of office.  I can only handle so much Trump.

I'll address your post tomorrow, but I would suggest reading it. How often do you get that kind of first person perspective from an actual psychologist? 

[Guy Kilmore]

3 minutes ago, Tywin et al. said:

I'll address your post tomorrow, but I would suggest reading it. How often do you get that kind of first person perspective from an actual psychologist? 

Oh yep, it is on my reading list, but, for my own sanity, after he is out of office.

[Martell Spy]

1 hour ago, Triskele said:

In all seriousness there's also that element where Dems are likelier to fear the virus.  

That did not happen with the Wisconsin state SC race.